Changes to Public Arena coming June 10th

[c00l_b0y]

Also eph just stay out of this thread, there was discussion before you turned up maligning the world we live in

[Fork]

Fork,
And a poll taken in USA in 1776 would have reflected that slavery was fine. Or a poll of German people in 1942 that showed overwhelming support for the Nazi’s. Was that common sense at work? And I am sre that if you polled many players, they would vote for free beer and hot naked female staffers who would cyber them. Does that mean this is what the zone should do?

There is not any more whining today about the weasel going back to the original settings then there was when it was first made small. Is that common sense?

Show me where TW is supposed to be a democracy. Show me where a typical player in pub can even demonstrate a long term perspective or vision for the zone. Sure we all have opinions; but please demonstrate how a player who simply makes a few posts and/or threatens to quit has this kind of understanding.

These forums allow players to post their opinions; nothing wrong with that. But the isn’t a ‘squeaky wheel gets the oil’ solution. Players opinions matter, but only to some extent. TW is more like a military organization, foot soldiers don’t get to ‘vote’ on how they are going to take the next hill. We trust the leaders to mind the overall objectives of the zone and to keep it on course.

CS,
I made no statement regarding the efficacy or quality of the current staff. If anyone doesn’t like the staff, the only real solution is that they can work to change it. But throwing out a few flames in the forum isn’t ever going to work.

Eph

Are you kidding me? comparing slavery polls and nazi polls to Trench Wars Polls???? W.D.F
.... MADE MY DAY

[Wazzaaa.nl]

??????

Any "vision" that staff has based on the mission statement SHOULD be based around the general public consensus. Because the truth of the matter is that half of these staff fgts dont even leave spec or even play the respective areas of the game that they have a hand in moderating. The mentality of having to join staff to see change is ridiculous because they only accept sheep for one thing. Just look at the recent steam events. It took Turban literally years to become a Sysop and he basically had to single handedly push for the steam project to even happen or it would have gone stagnant in the hands of other upper staff members. People shouldn't have to go through the garbage corrupt staff structure we have in place to get shit done. Thats not efficient or even viable considering the expiration date this game has. I understand that being a staff member is a voluntary job, but in the end you are still serving the community. Either you make changes the community wants to see and actually do your job, instead of taking advantage of it just to power trip like a mallcop, or you quit. Its simple as that.

right thurrr
cres on da beat

[roxxkatt]

as much as it pleases me to see cres making an actually literate post, turban didnt actually do anything at all, and 99.9% of the work was done by 3 people

[Ephemeral]

The point was that public polls are not always the right thing to do. (A hard concept to grasp, stick with me.) I guess I could have pointed instead to the way USA was established and is governed. The founding fathers (mostly slave owners) did not feel that the ‘public’ had enough intelligence and experience to allow them to vote. So they established representation style government, not Greek style “democracy-rules” government. Women were not given the right to vote because they were not considered educated enough.

I happened to buy and pay for SubSpace CD in 1998. Do I have a right to insist that a zone always exist in the same configuration as it was when I bought it? Do my rights extend further than someone who only joined TW in the last few years? Do we consider those who made significant donations as having more say in what happens than someone who simply runs there mouth in these forums? Or is that that doing a poll is simply one of many tools that are used in understanding what is best for the zone? That public opinion matters, but only as one of several factors which might influence revising the mission statement?

The debate over ship configurations is lame and stupid. Many posts are from the perspective of “I play this ship and I don’t like the change” instead of from “this is what I think is good for the zone”. For example, write a post about how a ship change levels the playing field to assist in the effort to retain new players instead of “I am taking my ship and going home, I am never playing this zone again”. (And speaking of this, wtf is up with players who quit playing the game but still post in this forum?) If you want to quit the game in protest of something, so be it. Go away and don’t come in here and whine and carry on, just quit.

TW is not a democracy. Period. If you want Pub to be something other than the competitive basing game in which teamwork plays a critical role, work to change the mission statement. The TW Objectives state, “Main Objectives -To maintain the game play focus of this zone; Basing, and to promote it to newer players and establish it within the community (Publics), while not neglecting other aspects of Trench Wars, such as the dueling aspect of Trench Wars.” The use of any public polls should be applied to changing this (and not over something like a weasel ship change.) Solicit change in this context. Write opinions that demonstrate an understanding beyond “don’t change this ship because I like playing it this way and I bet others do too” and perhaps you will find that your opinions are being taken more seriously.

This is an important topic because TW has traditionally not had good leadership. Many times the leadership spent too much time getting input from players when instead they should have has a firmer grasp upon what was best for the zone long-term. Frankly it appeared that staff often did not have the balls or backbone to fight this battle. But a good leader often has to be a ‘salesman’, to ‘sell’ an unpopular thing to the player base because sometimes the popular path is NOT the right path. Just look at Pub. We listened to popular opinion and tried to make it ‘all things to all players’ which really only served to make it almost impossible to break into the game as a new player. If the leadership had kept the mission statement in mind, and had been willing to fight public opinion (and developers) back then, we would not be having to pull back some of the ‘features’ like ?buy win now.
Eph

[Reckful]

The point was that public polls are not always the right thing to do. (A hard concept to grasp, stick with me.) I guess I could have pointed instead to the way USA was established and is governed. The founding fathers (mostly slave owners) did not feel that the ‘public’ had enough intelligence and experience to allow them to vote. So they established representation style government, not Greek style “democracy-rules” government. Women were not given the right to vote because they were not considered educated enough.

I happened to buy and pay for SubSpace CD in 1998. Do I have a right to insist that a zone always exist in the same configuration as it was when I bought it? Do my rights extend further than someone who only joined TW in the last few years? Do we consider those who made significant donations as having more say in what happens than someone who simply runs there mouth in these forums? Or is that that doing a poll is simply one of many tools that are used in understanding what is best for the zone? That public opinion matters, but only as one of several factors which might influence revising the mission statement?

The debate over ship configurations is lame and stupid. Many posts are from the perspective of “I play this ship and I don’t like the change” instead of from “this is what I think is good for the zone”. For example, write a post about how a ship change levels the playing field to assist in the effort to retain new players instead of “I am taking my ship and going home, I am never playing this zone again”. (And speaking of this, wtf is up with players who quit playing the game but still post in this forum?) If you want to quit the game in protest of something, so be it. Go away and don’t come in here and whine and carry on, just quit.

TW is not a democracy. Period. If you want Pub to be something other than the competitive basing game in which teamwork plays a critical role, work to change the mission statement. The TW Objectives state, “Main Objectives -To maintain the game play focus of this zone; Basing, and to promote it to newer players and establish it within the community (Publics), while not neglecting other aspects of Trench Wars, such as the dueling aspect of Trench Wars.” The use of any public polls should be applied to changing this (and not over something like a weasel ship change.) Solicit change in this context. Write opinions that demonstrate an understanding beyond “don’t change this ship because I like playing it this way and I bet others do too” and perhaps you will find that your opinions are being taken more seriously.

This is an important topic because TW has traditionally not had good leadership. Many times the leadership spent too much time getting input from players when instead they should have has a firmer grasp upon what was best for the zone long-term. Frankly it appeared that staff often did not have the balls or backbone to fight this battle. But a good leader often has to be a ‘salesman’, to ‘sell’ an unpopular thing to the player base because sometimes the popular path is NOT the right path. Just look at Pub. We listened to popular opinion and tried to make it ‘all things to all players’ which really only served to make it almost impossible to break into the game as a new player. If the leadership had kept the mission statement in mind, and had been willing to fight public opinion (and developers) back then, we would not be having to pull back some of the ‘features’ like ?buy win now.
Eph

This is a really good post in terms of trying to get your opinion heard via upperstaff but the biggest challenge is getting something followed through on. Turban has done a great job of pushing change and actually accomplishing something in the zone but hes essentially alone at the sysop level trying to drive change. M_M god is essentially an opinion most of the time. Demonic doesnt wanna make waves and Beasty is probably still not doing anything useful as a sysop and blaming it on being dean. In all honesty if you want something changed throw it at eph to articulate it and then send that to turban as its pretty much the only way it wont fall on deaf ears in most cases. Also hi block way to be the only PR head ever hired to actually try to be a PR person good work.

[dofus]

I haven't played for like a year. Plan on getting back once it launches on Steam.

How is the Weasel now? Does Stealth + Cloak drain energy? Does it still have awful rotation speed?
How fast are the bullets now?

I hate seeing my favorite ship constantly fucked with.

[bkgmjo]

c00l_b0y, why just demand me or other staffs to pm and poll? You have the same options as anyone else to do that. If you want anything to happen, you have to start acting. If we changed the game every time someone requests something, we would have a different game every hour. Just go ahead and do it, get the backup for your views and if you have something that represents a large number of players(including their names so I can check if it is not made up) I promise I will forward it to be decided upon.

@dofus
Weasel has the same settings as before, except for the additional stealth, which very slowly drains energy in conjunction with cloak.

[Reckful]

its pointless to try and petition change to pub to anyone below sysop hence turban your only real chance to get something going. no offense bkg but noone at sysop is gonna do shit cause you brought them something you need a voice at the sysop level to push a change or nothing will happen again

[Crescent Seal]

bjskfmjo lost as fuk atm

[c00l_b0y]

[QUOTE=bkgmjo;893376]c00l_b0y, why just demand me or other staffs to pm and poll? You have the same options as anyone else to do that. If you want anything to happen, you have to start acting.QUOTE]

Look my friend, I'm not a man that wishes to demean the fact, that you are willing as another man from across this earth to converse with me, using precious moments of both our lives to talk about the merits of a patch to a 2D spaceship game.

I merely wish to convey that just before the release of this archaic game on the largest PC gaming platform in existance, staff have chosen to change ship settings that some people have spent years mastering. The people that are still playing this game are indefinitely more important than attracting new players, and anyone who denies this is blind to how the game still exists.

[c00l_b0y]

I fail at forum okay I'm not used to having to quote people to get my point across.

[c00l_b0y]

Also I'm drunk but let's gloss over that, every second person playing this game is autistic anyway so who gives a fuck

[Fork]

So will these changes be evaluated? Because if its doing more harm then good, the change should be reversed right? Feedback\ polls from the players is important because 90% of the population are old players and if they quit this zone would be dead. So yeh changing something is cool but if alot more players are saying the change was bad- find out why and reverse it if a majority hate it... Then try again with another change depending on what people want\ or what people hate about pub then evaluate the change.

My opinion of pub: the problems.

It's good when it's very active but gets boring fast after a few games...

The rewards for winning a round isn't satisfying enough, rewards aren't very good and predictable. Unpredictable rewards will create more interest...

Nothing to spend spacebux on... Instead of saying spacebux never should have been put in place, how about figuring out something that will tempt many players to collect spacebux and buy it? Without making them superior over everyone else and ruining basing. If there were very nice buy options (that didn't effect basing) and cost a lot of spacebux then people will base just to buy these items.

Certain times of the day there are very few players playing but still a large amount in spec (true, could be on chat app) but could there be more incentive for people to base when there is a small pop playing?

[Fork]

Maybe we could use ship 9... 75k spacebux unlocks ship 9: a warbird in a cooler skin, changes each season (ideas like this shouldn't b harmful but could give players something to work for in pub).