Basing should be more popular

[Sufficient]

most the time ppl volunteer for cap then some nub zh comes in & pick his own caps (ppl who did not volunteer for cap). i think u guys know who the ZH guy is.

Who?

[Due]

Who?

tsm

[Jeansi]

TSM is good, he has based eough to know who can handle cap and who not. Another thing is how often he has the energy to cap someone good instead of just taking the two first to spam //CAP!

[Mythrandir]

Ok there are some issues at hand here.

?go base is different from the elims because it is a team-game, players rely on eachother. If your teammates aren't as good as you, then the game is a lot less interesting because no matter how good you are, you can't compensate for the entire team.

It's true, the early private base games used to have more quality to it, there were are couple of reasons for that:
- oftentimes the terrier picked his own team; this prevented the player from picking himself in a 'fun' ship.
- captains were picked by staffers who knew enough about basing and the players to pick capable players.
- the playerbase was a lot smaller, everybody pretty much knew everybody else and his weaknesses & strengths.
- basing didn't have any elitism, they used to be the 'no-skill' pub underdogs. I've seen plenty of people who thought themselves important enough to demand to play jav/wb or else threatened to leave the game. In the early base community, everybody was on a much more level ground, and the newbies were slowly embrased by the small community. A limit to this was that our maximum capacity of basing players was quite small.

Don't get me wrong though, some might think 'back then' everything was better. But no matter what, such a small community would have died out much earlier if we didn't expand our base arena to a public arena and made bots to host it pretty much 24/7.
This greatly increased the size of the basing community, new squads were formed solely for basing (which was quite unthinkable back then).

Now let me explain what I think is the cause of the current problems, based on a very simplified view:
We now have several 'generations' of basing players; And I think it's not far from the truth that each generation looks down on the later generations. In general, the oldest generation has the most skill (they have the most experience), and the amount of skill decreases with each generation (because they simple haven't had as much playtime yet).
So, a while ago, in ?go base, there would be 30-40 people waiting in spec to be picked. A staffer (or someone with base-powers) picks two pretty much random persons to be captains. Many of these captains will selfishly put themselves in a warbird or a javelin, which already sends the wrong message to the team that he picks: he cares more about himself than to have a fun and interesting game. They would pick various players in various ships, and since there are so many to choose from, they have no idea at who is particulary good at what ship. Then there is the added problem that players of different 'generations' tend to look down on the others, which doesn't help the team-spirit either.

In short, I think the major problem is that the basing community size outgrew the capacity of ?go base, and as a result many lost interest in the arena, which makes ?go base a more quiet place than before. There are too many good basers for everybody to know personally.
Also, there are gaps in skill levels nobody can identify, because there are so many basers and basing-skill is hard to measure.


I think these are the problems we have to address, I have some ideas on how to resolve this, and I would like to know what you think about this.

---

Stabwound, although the 17vs17 basing in pub sounds nice, it's not feasible for technical reasons: even with 16 players on the screen at the same time, in 8v8, lag occurs because the server refuses to send more than a certain amount of data per second to a client. Intensive 17vs17 basing will cause tremendous lag and enormous bandwidth bills for our lord and master Priitk to pay.

[Kolar]

I think when we moved private basing into the ?go base arena (moving it with best intentions...expanding the community ect..) we lowered the basing experience over all. Instead of having 2 groups within the community: 1 being high level squads and lower level, (but not exactly uncompetitive) we now have all of them thrown into one group and most are finding it hard to measure the ability and skill of players and squads because of this. Nothing can be done about this and we can't just shut down ?go base and move back into private basing, we're stuck with it now.

People don't need to spread out and fertilize for lack of a better term; other squads. For the future, this needs to happen for the basing community in my opinion:

1: A real basing arena needs to be made, controlled or uncontrolled (read bottom paragraph).

2: Staff needs to get involved with hosting some private basing games but not to replace the ?go base arena. Some public ones like boki would also help to get more people (even pubbers/potential basers) into basing and make more people aware of this community.

3: Staff (and the general bot powered people for ?go base) need to start picking up on poor captians. A lot of people joke about a "black list", hell, why not?

4: Squads, some squads and squad captians really need to look at where they are and what there ambitions are for the next season. The last thing we need is a bunch of starters getting caught up in TWL because some ass hat captian decides to break the rules.

5: Some kind of incentive for squads and players within the TWBD system needs to be implimented to counter squad hopping, a players "worth" (meaning how many times they have or have not hopped) for example could bring more points when winning a match. Players could then see this effect if any on which squads would be willing to accept them. Without this tool for TWBD, new squads will never get off the ground, especially basing squads.

Public Arenas do not represent REAL BASING as Stab said, most of it is uncontrolled random killing with almost no team work. Pubs do not lead players through the game play or the nature of the game setup to something like basing. Some kind of 'base' for the basing community has to take shape or the lack of intrest will continue. This however MUST go beyond the look and feel of publics or it will just be another stupid wasteful endevor for the power hungry kiddies on TWDev to jump on.

[Cig Smoke]

You should really stop talking about Spastic, the captains organize their squad as they want, these ideas will never work and in our case people are not gonna leave, wheter they play or not. We have a 34 roster ppl, 10 or more come from floydans madcowz levterr and some a large part of em play pub only some go to go base, these ppl have their friends here, 3 are inactive and that leaves 20 ppl, wich means for a 1 league squad is not that much and we can only be really active to bd all days if we have enough ppl.

Cig, well i think dice has a better chanse to beat spas in bd than we in jd, we wouldnt lose much points but nobody likes to lose and we rarely have a good line.

U should understand people wont spread out..

Again like i said above, i was just using spastic as an example bc stab is the one who braught this idea up. There are alot more squads out there who do this too. Im not downing spastic bc i give the caps props for putting together such a strong LB lineup, but still i dont see the need for 36 ppl and 1 league. Also it doesnt matter who has the better chance of winning the game. You learn by playing harder opponents. Why do u think its good for us to BD u guys? we learn from our loss against u and try to do better next time. Same goes for javs. You wont ever get better by playing <thunder> over and over for points. (example) And i dont mean u guys axe ppl to spread them out, whati mean is stop recruiting everytime a top player gets axed, squadleaves. I mean let them go to other squads so the compatition is better. Just look @ last season when jr went to a-s, a-s naturaly became a real contender, same with P_L to WR. He went there and WR got activein basing again. Thats only 2 examples, and only 2 guys but it made 2 other squads become real contenders. This isnt only for spastic, this is for those other top basing squads too like Diso/a-s and such. U guys already got 12 or so guys who are great basers, i dont think u need much more. Let the compatition get better.


SUff: 1 league game as a replacement squad isnt something to be proud of. When i say multi-league i mean that u make the league from the begining. Any ragtype shit squad can make it as a replacement. Just look how many we had last season. About bothering us for BD, yes uguys do. You guys ask us alot, almost every nite. My point was maybe spastic should start playing JD against other squads and maybe other squads would BD them. I think Dice would do it alot more if that happend, but hey thats just me talking not the squad.

[Pyros]

we challenge almost every squad in the ladder, not just dice

[Stabwound]

Stabwound, although the 17vs17 basing in pub sounds nice, it's not feasible for technical reasons: even with 16 players on the screen at the same time, in 8v8, lag occurs because the server refuses to send more than a certain amount of data per second to a client. Intensive 17vs17 basing will cause tremendous lag and enormous bandwidth bills for our lord and master Priitk to pay.

You are right; I'm not sure what I was thinking when I wrote that. I played a lot of hosted basing games, and they are unplayably laggy with that many people. Still, some kind of a basing game hosted in pubs that is generally like ?go base/twbd/twlb would be cool and help a lot- it just needs a lot more thought.

[Sufficient]

SUff: 1 league game as a replacement squad isnt something to be proud of. When i say multi-league i mean that u make the league from the begining. Any ragtype shit squad can make it as a replacement. Just look how many we had last season. About bothering us for BD, yes uguys do. You guys ask us alot, almost every nite. My point was maybe spastic should start playing JD against other squads and maybe other squads would BD them. I think Dice would do it alot more if that happend, but hey thats just me talking not the squad.

I'm just saying that we ARE technically a 2 league squad ... proof being participation in 2 TWL leagues. Argue as much as u want how much in reality that really means, but u still can't take away the fact that we participated in 2 leagues.

As for making an example of squads ... look at ur own squad before critisizing others. For the EXACT same reasons u don't base us is prob the same reason we don't jav YOU. And I almost know for certain that we don't ask u as much as u think we do. In general we don't nag ppl who don't wanna twd us. Once or twice is enuf for us to get the pt that u don't wanna twd.

You also haven't commented on my statement about multileague squads being basically dueling AND basing ... not just wb and jav. If u take that statement to be true, then I don't think u'd be critisizing teams such as Venom or for being a "1 league team" (other squads here too, so sry for singling out Ven).

[Nickname]

Whats Wrong With basing:

1.Community:

The old "vet" squads are losers now. Disoblige had an awful season and only made it into the playoffs because of merce (and you know it). Pallies made it in again but yet again lost. Basing is also the most elitist of all the leagues, with snobby newbies being retarded. Basing takes the least skill to do decently (takes the most teamwork, but the least indiviual skill)

2.The cram:

removed any fun from basing. It's now just the exact same thing, with more than likly the exact same 5 spider lineup. Guess what, anybody who has a lot of fun playing 10 games that are the exact same a day will kill themselves when they're 35.

3. Lag:

yeah it's in every league but the lag is the worst in basing. Almost every single important game has complaints of lag all over the place. Throw in soem really shitty bots to keep track of just flagtime and not points and you've got one shitty league.

4. No "mystique":

whereas dueling squads every season always has it's old vet squad out there (elu, siege, -f- yadaa yadaa) basing really doesn't. Diso and Pallies are the vet squads and disoblige has sucked enough to recruit RR and Pallies just can't win anything. Light is long gone, Spastic had a shitty season and is considered by some to have had a fluke season when they won anyways. A-S our current champs are good, but do to the light recruiting standards they've had forever and some of the less than stellar people on it (not to mention a captain whos 20 and hasn't kissed a girl yet) doesn't exactly give it oodles (yeah i said it) of mystique.


The basing community is by far the most outspoken, while generally being the newest and least informative. Basing also has very minimal changes (not that d or j is overflowing with it either, but at least they change the map) A league in which all the ships are supposed to be used outlaws those very ships and does very minimal to fix the "broken" ones.

Basing should not be more popular, it should be as popular as it is. Basing like all leagues losses "vets" or important key players on a yearly basis, the difference is that while d and j picks up new talent thats taken years (generally) to get to where they are, the average new elite baser has been playing for minimal time. Gone are the days of the multi year baser, in are the days of the laggy spider nobody has ever heard of because he started playing last week.


EDIT: not to mention that there are next to no new squads, that the league is limiting the total amount of squads (we're already down, we'll be down more in the future) and that anyone that lags can become a player to be recon'd with.

(the ripper/horror shark tandem comes to mind for Rampage. A squad that never practiced yet did very well with no terr to speak off.)

[Izor]

Why dont you just make more basers into staff - oh wait you're running out of basers to choose from

[Escalate]

stab's idea is good. the more that you organize the pub into something that resembles two teams in a competitive timed battle the less you will see newbs floating around the spawn area straying ppl. dont get me wrong, there will always be newbs floating around the spawn area straying people, but with continuous timed games there will be more players actually fighting for the FR and sort of doing something similar to basing...no doubt.

[Fit of Rage]

This might be infringing on the style of other zones, but what about this-

When a timed game ended (whichever freq held the base for 10 minutes first) the winning freq would receive prizes, ie 5,000 points, burst, repel, rocket, portal, full charge all on one package. That way people would have incentive to stick around.

[Cig Smoke]

I'm just saying that we ARE technically a 2 league squad ... proof being participation in 2 TWL leagues. Argue as much as u want how much in reality that really means, but u still can't take away the fact that we participated in 2 leagues.

As for making an example of squads ... look at ur own squad before critisizing others. For the EXACT same reasons u don't base us is prob the same reason we don't jav YOU. And I almost know for certain that we don't ask u as much as u think we do. In general we don't nag ppl who don't wanna twd us. Once or twice is enuf for us to get the pt that u don't wanna twd.

You also haven't commented on my statement about multileague squads being basically dueling AND basing ... not just wb and jav. If u take that statement to be true, then I don't think u'd be critisizing teams such as Venom or for being a "1 league team" (other squads here too, so sry for singling out Ven).

I didnt comment bc thats stupid. There are 3 leagues (TWLD, TWLJ, TWLB) Dueling and javing are two totaly differnt things. There are javs who cant wb, and wbs who cant jav. Then sure they are some who can do both. Just like there are basers who can jav/wb, and wbz/javs who can base. There are 3 seperate leagues. I didnt want to make this a bashing thread or something like that making it sound like i was bashing spastic bc i wasnt. What i was trying to point out is any squad who is in 1 league doesnt need more then 20 players, if thats basing, dueling, or javs. If u limit the # of ppl on the roster then u'll spread more players around the league its simple as that. Like i pointed out above, between like 3 bsaing squads there were like 100+ ppl on them. Then u wonder why there isnt any more basers to make new squads, or make the underskilled squads better.

[Nickname]

oh, and the best idea (arros) for basing to date is the pub freq idea. You'd have all 8 guys and couldn't have more than 2 sharks and 1 terr at a time, but the other 5 can switch around as is needed. That would fix the boringness of the cram (because you can jav someone up and switch them back when needed) it would add a different element to the wb for picking off strays after a td as well as making the need for organisation and teamwork more important -- which is what the league is about.