Points Race

[Force of Nature]

Enough of the nostagia value and reimplement the point race system. It effectively reduces the extra time which is wasted when a team cannot get back into the game. And this is a very good improvement.

For those of you who think there is nothing wrong with the old system. You are wrong. This is a problem: What is the point of fighting extra time when you cannot possibilty get back into the game. Its just a waste of time which could be used for better things.

The point is think of a race is that no time is wasted. The game finishes when it has too. There is no point in the race where the other team cannot get back into the game. If you must be pedantic, sure you can claim that at the last 1k it's not possible but generally for all argumentative purposes the race doesn't waste time.

After the point where it is known that a team cannot come back due to time constraits the other team starts to suicide and generally wastes time which could be used to start another game. Obviously I'm talking about the ?go base games here. Hence the race system is also benificial in this sitution where more games can be efficiently scheduled into limited time we have in a day. There has been many many times where you know you can't come back with a 100k deficit and isntead of killing the game and starting a new one. People still keep playing suiciding and what not. This time could be better used to allow other people in spec play in the game if it was a race system.

I've only mentioned one point here but there are more. I say bring back race.

[geekbot]

You're such a sweet talker, Force of Nature.

[bloodzombie]

everything fon said is right.

[Adeon]

Yup.

Originally posted by Cig Smoke
If id ont show up for LD i dont see it as a huge loss, nor do i think pirates would, but i feel i am needed for LB.

This is your problem, Cig. I have a half dozen other SS leagues that I play on Sunday.. I won't be missed for LJ / LD.. I am needed for LB. Me, me, me. As said before, TW policy can't be dictated by the desires of one or two people (unless those people are Dock or Priitk ).

[Cig Smoke]

Well i know that all i can speak for is myself, but i also know i am not the only one who has other leagues they play. Some ppl are more valuable in all 3 TWL games, where i am only valuable in 2 if that. I can only speak for myself, but im not the only one who has it.

[bloodzombie]

But cig, if your game is scheduled for noon, it will be done by 1. no matter how close the damn game is. how hard is that?

[Adeon]

Seriously...

[Cig Smoke]

Bc the games dont start @ noon, they start from 1-5 rite? And until the ref gets lineups, starts the bots, gets everyone ready its already 15-20 minutes past the hr. Then u add a 40 minute game its rite on like u said 12 to 1, but the fact remains then i must rush to DSB and play in a league game there. I would like it to be over 10 mintues earlier, and practice some. The fact of having more leagues isnt even the point, its the point i like set in stone type of things, i dont like when things can vary, especialy when it comse to time.

[Force of Nature]

Originally posted by Cig Smoke
Bc the games dont start @ noon, they start from 1-5 rite? And until the ref gets lineups, starts the bots, gets everyone ready its already 15-20 minutes past the hr. Then u add a 40 minute game its rite on like u said 12 to 1, but the fact remains then i must rush to DSB and play in a league game there. I would like it to be over 10 mintues earlier, and practice some. The fact of having more leagues isnt even the point, its the point i like set in stone type of things, i dont like when things can vary, especialy when it comse to time.

All this is nice - if infact all that you are saying is actually valid.

I'm going to point of the premises and conclusion of your argument.

Premise 1: Point Race will take 40 mins to complete from "Then u add a 40 minute game"

Counter: Do you even have evidence that the average time that point base game takes is 40 mins? I would rather think on average it takes less than the allocated 30 mins therefore taking less time than normal games hence you will have a lot more time to go whereever you want. Apart from that, the points to be raced till haven't been officially decided yet. It can be adjusted so the maximum amount of time assuming both teams get even scores till the end -- (eg: for 70k race assume both race get 70k to calculate and the time taken for 70k on dings along for 8v8 + average kills points during the time) <-- this might not be accurate but can be fixed -- will finish on 30 mins. So it still preserves the status quo on time.

Premise 2: Regular games fit in set timed schedulres perfectly from the fact that you are arguing against point race in favour of regular games.

Counter: A lot of time regular games do exceed time limit because the ref isn't as accurate like you have stated " And until the ref gets lineups, starts the bots, gets everyone ready its already 15-20 minutes past the hr.". Firstly you haven't justified where you got this time frame from the ref. I'm assuming you are going to justify you got it through experience and for which I'm would say sure but I have also experienced that some times refs also take way more than 15-20 mins. I think this time isn't accurate. It probably has a margin of error of about 10 mins. Some times the refs take about 5 mins to start the game and sometimes they take about 30 mins to start the game. I've even seen games started as late as 35 - 40 mins past the mark. So overruns are unpredicatable. Firstly, they aren't a property of the point race system itself. However, in TWL you do have strict time limits when games have to start and if followed will start at the correct time.

In light of this counter, regular games are just as unpredicatable as point race games on when they will actually finish. And even if they finish in time you still have to rush to you other league.

Conclusion: point race exceed set times often therefore not better than regular games

Counter: First of all your premises don't hold therefore your conclusion is already void. Its void because, regular games cannot be guaranteed to finish at set times and also because point race probably take less time than regular games.

[Cig Smoke]

Ur rite, i am goin off of my experiences. They call the teams there @ lets say 1 pm est. Till he gets the bot loads it up on average what 5 minutes? then a team has 10 mintues to send a lineup in (or was not sure nemore), that together can be up to 15 minutes. Like i said that isnt even important, i like to have a set and valid time things start and end, i mite be the only one that likes it, or thinks this way but its how i am. If point race is decided on, i'll play it by all means im not saying its a totaly bad idea. I am more or less saying that i dont think all these huge changes are needed after what i thought was a fairly well ran league last season. There are so many big changes goin into TWLB, or are on test for TWLB. It mite be better, and it mite be more fun, i dunno or care, but i dont think there is a need to rush this stuff all in 1 season thats all. Im not condeming the idea, or P_L for coming up w/ it. I actualy appreciate his effort to make things better, but i dont think its all needed RITE NOW. Maybe next season or something, but i myself didnt think there was a huge problem w/ TWLB last season, but i guess others did. So i think everyone is just misunderstanding whatim saying.

[bloodzombie]

Originally posted by Cig Smoke
I am more or less saying that i dont think all these huge changes are needed after what i thought was a fairly well ran league last season.

It's not a huge change, it's a minor tweak that makes the game better.

And now you're just throwing out all your old arguments and saying that none of it matters, you just prefer to have a set time limit. Why didn't you just say that to begin with instead of making up all kinds of arguments? We haven't even figured out what score we would race to and you already decided that it will take too long.




I also think we should use the suggestion that someone had where you have to hold the flag in order to win. I think it would be somewhat rare that someone would cross the point-goal while not holding the flag, but it could happen, and would make an interesting battle where all they need to do is touch it to end the game.

I also like the idea of having to win by a certain amount. I know these ideas might piss off a couple people (cig), but really, it would be the closely-matched games that would run into these things, and it would add to the excitment of those games.

Imagine the finals going into overtime because it's so close.. that's good shit.

[Force of Nature]

That is good shit beez. But I think there should be an overall cap for overtime. It can't go on forever or till one teams people have to leave.

Something like add one round of 20k extra race and whoever wins if that if teams are within 5k of each other in end. But the new race is definite and cannot be extented.

[bloodzombie]

I was thinking something more along the lines of a siren noise, and a warning message.. "THE POINT BARRIER HAS BEEN BROKEN! DISOBLIGE - 70,000 : PALLIES - 67,357"

and then diso has to pull ahead by 10k to win. if our range is 10k, it's virutally impossible to keep it within that range unless you had a turnover every minute and a half. we all know points are scored in bunches, so I think the most this could extend the game would be like 5 minutes unless you had a 5 minute fr battle at the end, which would just be awesome.

[Mattey]

Originally posted by bloodzombie
"THE POINT BARRIER HAS BEEN BROKEN! PALLIES - 70,000 : DISOBLIGE - 67,357"

More accurate portrayal of what it would say.

[Cig Smoke]

BZ, i actualy like that idea, although it could make the game go longer, but i suppose if we are gonna change the system we mite as well change it the rite way.