Tie Breaker solution-Continued

[Awesome]

you're cool

[Bob (SRB)]

Heh Awesome, don't listen to the our 2 dummy captains. Even though you've always hated rapid just because of 2 or 3 of our members, I do respect the post you made. Pirates deserved to make playoffs anyways, they are a good jav team. GL in the playoffs guys.

[nemodot]

So looks like all the rapid complaining might have actually stumbled onto something that is actually true. But it's not as if Grapevine made their own schedule, they just played the games they were dealt, same as everyone else.

Awesome answer me this -- have you read any of the previous arguments we've made? Or are you just going to sit here and keep saying "rapid gg you lost go home". At this point, we're past the playoffs and trying to still get into the playoffs or whatever. You still seem to be stuck on that.

Nickname, Escalate, Violence, and I have all given valid, solid, and irrefutable evidence, stats, facts, and examples as to why +/- does not work and why head to head would suit this league better next season.

You and your halfwitted pirates losers, on the other hand, just come in here after reading all that stuff and say "+/- is better dood, i have no idea why and i have no real arguments for why it is, but it saved our necks this season cus you really boned us up the ass, but we're getting in anyways!"

Do yourself a favor and get off your computer chair for once this year and watch/play some sports. maybe you'll get an idea of how a real league should run.

violence and piston your posts are retarded, but you make me laugh lol. awesome your posts are just stupid. you'd think with so many posts, you would have actually learned how to write sensibly

edit -- can we just a TWL Op's opinion on this? or are you just gonna be like "shit we fucked up let's go hide from Nemo's wrath"

[Awesome]

Heh Awesome, don't listen to the our 2 dummy captains. Even though you've always hated rapid just because of 2 or 3 of our members, I do respect the post you made. Pirates deserved to make playoffs anyways, they are a good jav team. GL in the playoffs guys.

i dont hate rapid, hell i've only heard of like maybe 8-10 of their members, max... but 90% of the ones i have heard of, i dont like.

Awesome answer me this -- have you read any of the previous arguments we've made? Or are you just going to sit here and keep saying "rapid gg you lost go home". At this point, we're past the playoffs and trying to still get into the playoffs or whatever. You still seem to be stuck on that.

you miss understood the tone of my previous post... which is easy to do... i was saying that the person who was complaining about yours and gv's schedules had actually stumbled onto something that's true... it was supporting whoever said it not condeming them. just forget it

[Orgazmo]

you're cool

Thank you awesome. i am..

Heh Awesome, don't listen to the our 2 dummy captains. Even though you've always hated rapid just because of 2 or 3 of our members, I do respect the post you made. Pirates deserved to make playoffs anyways, they are a good jav team. GL in the playoffs guys.

im not a dummy captain bitch.. awesome is like a poser me.. he trys to act funny and when hes bored he trys to start shit.. well me im crazy i dont care what people think of me on an online game.. this is awesomes life if he didnt make leagues he would strangle himself. no lie he was evne talking aobut it with me. Me i dont really care 1 way or another thats why i havnt even argued i just offered a challenge that no one took. DEATH SQUAD DUEL MATCH NOW! and dissed awesome/torr. which i do normally now because hes a fucktard that will kill himself under pressure

Awesome> omg its to much i cant take it *cries* *cuts wrists*
Piston> you havent even played in a league match yet, wait till your squad loses first round of playoffs. #1 vs #4 sorry pirates

[Kings]

AM I RIGHT OR AM I WRONG? CLEARLY I AM RIGHT AND THAT RAPID SHOULD BE IN PLAYOFFS NOT GRAPEVINE BECAUSE THEY HAD WAY EZIER SCHEDULE AND PLaYED TEAMS WITH MAN ADVANTAGE WHERE AS WE DIDNT THUS SCREWING US OVER IN +/- BUT IF IT WAS HEAD TO HEAD ITS MORE FAIR AND THE DESERVING TEAM GETS IN WHICH IS RAPID. SOMEONE TELL ME IF IM WRONG CUZ IM NOT WRONG SORRY.

life's like this. some ppl get it harder than others because they have been dicks. Some get luckier than others.

[Violence]

The fact is. Grapevine got in because of ezier schedule and palying tanked outnumbered. in head to head none of this would have made a difference. only problem with head to head is that people dont always have ther best lineups, but thats to bad if ur a good squad ull have depth and it wont matter that much.

PLZ dont respond unless u are going to say something intelligent on why +/- works better then head to head. thanks nigs.

[Kim]

Vio, cut the racist stuff, people don't like it here. Plus it would be sad if you had to be banned during this heated conversation

[Randedl]

maybe the real issue you should be looking at is why the schedules are different.

this is a constructive post for next season. this season's rules are set in stone, and nobody can legitimately say that they should be changed in the last week of the regular season.

i think that +/- is a good system in theory. it rewards consistant play throughout the season, penalizes noshows instead of making them even with a 49-50 loss, makes games that are seemingly unimportant have a reason to be, and it does not rely on one game as a deciding factor. that said, the drawbacks, in this league, are that teams do not play the same squads, and that no-shows are rewarded too much.

the system of substitute squads needs to be fixed dramatically. the first problem is that a substitute squad should not need a substitute. the second is that substitute squads suck compared to twl squads, and in the event that a top squad drops out, the league will have problems.

that needs to be adressed before next season begins. the twl ops tried to correct this by doing cross conference playoffs this season (if shriek hadn't have been kicked out, i am not so sure that we would have cross conference playoffs), and hopefully they will try to improve next season for the good of twl, not just twlb.

what i do not like about the head to head system is that placing so much emphasis on one game that you do not, at the time, know will be so important is a bit odd i think. if the two squads play each other in week one, should that really be used to assess which squad is better come week 11? in a system of scheduling where game times can be assigned if not agreed upon, and in the favor of one squad, should it really be up to the twl ops and that week's schedule as to who wins the tiebreaker?

there is no collective bargaining agreement in subspace, players are not forced to attend games week in and week out. leagues were not put on hold for the north american july holidays, nor the euro cup. i hope that nobody would deny that such things take precident over twl. that said, i don't believe that twl should be put on hold for these holidays as europe shouldn't be put on hold for canada day, and canada shouldn't be put on hold for independance day, and the usa shouldn't be put on hold for the euro cup.

worst case scenario with head to head: diso plays pallies in twlb in week 1. this falls on the july 1st/july 4th friday=monday long weekend. pallies could make it back for 4pm est on sunday, but diso won't take that time and the game is assigned to saturday at 1pm est. pallies ends up playing their worst lineup against diso's top lineup. diso wins. when week 2 hits pallies recruits a whole new lineup that is far better than anything diso could pretend to have, further, diso's starters all leave for a new squad named tokyo disoblige. for one reason or another the two end up tied come the playoffs. . diso wins the tiebreak. . .

i like the +/- system more, without bias. however, in the event that next season hits and problems like the ones this season has experienced can happen, maybe we can look at having a tiebreak round during week 11?

[Escalate]

what i do not like about the head to head system is that placing so much emphasis on one game that you do not, at the time, know will be so important is a bit odd i think. if the two squads play each other in week one, should that really be used to assess which squad is better come week 11?

as said before, neither is a perfect tiebreaker. but id rather have it come down to a week 1 game between the two teams then have it come down to the fact that one of the two teams played a 5v3 and against a replacement squad instead of a top 3 jav squad.

worst case scenario with head to head: diso plays pallies in twlb in week 1. this falls on the july 1st/july 4th friday=monday long weekend. pallies could make it back for 4pm est on sunday, but diso won't take that time and the game is assigned to saturday at 1pm est. pallies ends up playing their worst lineup against diso's top lineup. diso wins. when week 2 hits pallies recruits a whole new lineup that is far better than anything diso could pretend to have, further, diso's starters all leave for a new squad named tokyo disoblige. for one reason or another the two end up tied come the playoffs. . diso wins the tiebreak. . .

think about what you are saying here randedl. you are saying that head to head is faulty because it relies on the two teams that are tied not having any extraordinary problems during the game they played against eachother. look at what +/- does: it relies on every single game that both of the two teams played during the entire season not having any extraordinary circumstances, when everyone knows full well that extraordinary circumstances (forfeits, dissolves, replacements, horrible show ups) are inevitable in this league, and occur 10X more often among non-playoff squads than they do with playoff caliber squads. on top of this, it assumes a relatively equal cross-conference schedule, which is rare. if team A and team B are two playoff caliber squads that both have an 80% chance of showing a nice solid lineup that is indicative of their skill level, then they have a 64% chance of playing a game against eachother that leaves no room for excuses. now what do you think the chances are going with +/-? what do you think the chances are that the two teams will get a fair shake, and that neither team will get an easier schedule, get to play an outnumbered or replacement team, get to play more teams that just happened to have shitty showups, etc....? maybe 1 in 10 chance of that happening in this league. if this league only had 8 teams in it, all of the playoff level squads, then +/- might be a decent tiebreaker. adding in the next 8 make it a horrible tiebreaker for all of the above reasons. and no youre not unbiased, if you had beat rapid's asses and ended up tied, but they had played a 5v3 and a replacement squad and ended up knocking you out, you would think it was bullshit too.

i like the idea of a tiebreaker match in week 11 though, just because they'd be entertaining to watch and completely fair.

[nemodot]

i think that +/- is a good system in theory. it rewards consistant play throughout the season, penalizes noshows instead of making them even with a 49-50 loss, makes games that are seemingly unimportant have a reason to be, and it does not rely on one game as a deciding factor. that said, the drawbacks, in this league, are that teams do not play the same squads, and that no-shows are rewarded too much.

first off i want to commend you on an actual intelligible post, which i had thought not capable of you. a post with some brains behind it is a nice break from all those retarded pirates posts with incomprehendable and nonsensical arguments

this is where you are wrong, though. you claim that in head to head, one game plays too big a role in deciding who gets into the playoffs and who doesnt. you say you want to take into account the whole season. well, gues what. that's what recs are for. whoops, we are both 6-4, ok. so now we compare our two teams. we played each other, and rapid won. no, we are not looking at how GV did vs other squads and how Rapid did vs other squads. It we have identical records, why should all that matter? With unequal schedules, that's just stupid. All that should matter is comparing our two squads.

Secondly, big time players are all about big games. Ask someone why Michael Jordan was so great. Why Wayne Gretzsky was so great. Why Joe Montana was so great. they'll all tell you "because they played big in big games". Guess what folks, competing in anything, whether it be sports or a 2d spaceship game, is all about playing well in big games. You claim "well how would we possibly know that a Week 1 game will end up being important?" Well, you said it yourself kid. You need to take every game seriously, and if you don't, well, that's not our problem. Everyone knew from the getgo that Rapid and GV were middle tier jav squads. We weren't as good as Shriek Synd or -F-, but we could dispose of a squad like mambo or tanked fairly handily. anyone with 1 nut and half a brain could figure out that teams like GV and and Pirates and Rapid would end up fighting for playoff spots. We knew this and brought our A games in both matches. You didnt. sorry buddy, but if one team doesnt show their best player or just has a shitty day in the TWLJ/B/D Championship Game, there are no do-overs. If Jordan misses the buzzerbeater in Game 7 of the NBA Finals, there are no do-overs. If Montana throws an INT in the endzone with 2 minutes left in the Super Bowl, there are no do-overs. You've gotta show up big for the big games, and raise your level of play. You didnt. This season, you got lucky. You played Tanked 5v3, pretty much giving you a forfeit win, thereby screwing the system and screwing the squad that beat you soundly.

Thirdly, you are biased. Quit being so close-minded, it takes a man to admit their faults, so toss your pride aside and let's get this fixed for next season

[Randedl]

escalate, did i get pissed when my squad didn't make twlb? i don't doubt we are better than alot of the squads that have or are in it this season. we looked to ourselves and to what we didn't do first, and we never complained on the forums, nor am i doing so right now.

it is so useless to blame shit on something you can't control.

[Randedl]

nemo

you are the only person insulting others.

to be honest with you, i didn't think my squad would be a top 5 in our conference. i predicted tanked to be ahead of us, pirates to be a top contender, and blablabla i don't remember and don't care.

javs is a hobbey, while i like the fact we are on the verge of making the playoffs, i would not lose sleep over not making it.

i can tell you the scores of the games that eliminated my warbird team from twld last season, i can't even remember who beat us in javs.

i think there are worse problems in twl than changing the tiebreaker from +/- to anything else. and i think that if your squad were not on the outside looking in that you wouldn't give a shit.

why would i be biased towards my squad? right or wrong the rules are on our side this time. the only thing i am against is changing the rules for this season, and you yourself have said that is not what you are trying to do.

i am all for change, but i'd prefer to see twl ops who know what javelins and warbirds are and a 4 spid max instead of a random tiebreaker that suited rapid this past season.

[3Stripes]

escalate, did i get pissed when my squad didn't make twlb? i don't doubt we are better than alot of the squads that have or are in it this season. we looked to ourselves and to what we didn't do first, and we never complained on the forums, nor am i doing so right now.

it is so useless to blame shit on something you can't control.

so what? im sure you thought it was bullshit and so did everyone else on your squad. just because you didnt say anything about it on the forums does not mean that you are some amazingly impartial squad that is immune to bias.

[Randedl]

not especially.

the only person saying things like that that i remember was cig smoke.