TWLB Semi-finals Plade vs. Fire Appeal

[zidane]

I think it's also worth mentioning that Dreamwin not only abused this exploit once, but twice in that short 13 second video. At 0:04 he dies to Lockdown and then instantly changes himself to bypass his first 5 second death cooldown, at 0:07 he dies to hellkite while being invisible, at 0:10 he then changes himself to spider, bypassing his death cooldown again by at least 2 seconds this time (probably didn't have the macro ready).

[Dwopple]

I think it's also worth mentioning that Dreamwin not only abused this exploit once, but twice in that short 13 second video. At 0:04 he dies to Lockdown and then instantly changes himself to bypass his first 5 second death cooldown, at 0:07 he dies to hellkite while being invisible, at 0:10 he then changes himself to spider, bypassing his death cooldown again by at least 2 seconds this time (probably didn't have the macro ready).

How many times have you ship changed to bypass the other team using a bad mine?

[roro]

4. 3 reps were executed, meaning that cram was going to be broken. With a visible jav, or without.

[/B]

Does everyone understand the concept of sharking when there is a (visible) jav on the other team? Like saving reps? I wouldn’t want to shark in 2020 when you have to save reps for invisible javelins lol

[panty]

Good morning G's.

Bare with me, my writing and my huge ass post. If not, ignore it.

Today is a perfect example of just another TW historic moment that has blessed us with laughs we all enjoy, and before I adress my logic,I'll quickly fact check on the game itself trying to account both sides.

Plade.

1. Plade had more overall flag time.

2. Thunder is appealing because it's the end game move. Would of it been at the start or the middle and it would be irrelevant.

3. It's not just Zid. All squads abuse the ship change shark move, TWD or TWL. Abusing bad coding to compensate for your bad mining. Looks bad for everyone, pussies.

4. 3 reps were executed, meaning that cram was going to be broken. With a visible jav, or without.

5. Depending on your latency, players like RageRitual on America, or myself on Europe and few others probably saw the orange ship for an extremely brief moment.

Fire.

1. It doesnt not feel like a clean loss due to a brief rare moment.

2. DW using it like a shark ship change in order at the very least to re-attach faster, hence shooting faster and avoiding waiting 5 seconds on the spawn area.

3. Most of the arena did not see DW during a few seconds.

4. Zidane being accused of using his TWL powers, yet he won't be deciding.

5. Knowing that most likely Plade would of not break cram in time to touch the flag.

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My goof answer would always be biased as I know way more people on one side than the other, namely my brother.

My honest answer, would be no forfeit as it would be an even bigger disgracefull win. If anything a replay of round 3 and even then it's just laying more salt of the floor, but that's on both squads, anyone else shouldn?t matter for this equation.

If a game is 14:30-14:00 and Zid makes the mistake to mine, Myth or Com would rep it. Imagine seeing the repped mine flying to cram, only to dissapear midway due to a shipchange, hence allowing Fire to make sure the cram wouldn't be broken? I see no difference other than, not having a quarter of importance... just because this was a vicious jav splash.

My super duper honest answer? Just move on.

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Better yet and more fun for me, let's adress my logic as volcanoes are popping off at the moment. Here's 15 points on TWl's history.

1. 2dragons wins multiple titles for Light, Elusive and Syndicate. Known lag abuser and also an important key staffer. What happened? Nothing.

2. -Final- proceed to win TWLB season 9 with atleast Everett and Sika using CE. Neither needed it but still used it against Dice and others. Sphinx today just mentioned how he learned CE from Ev, and got banned one year for it. Eve showing it to me the day before made laugh. What did I do or did any punishment happen? Nope. Because throwing a friend under a bus over a cheating engine on a 2d video game, because he beat me with it...is just sad.

3. Merce using CE to win TWLJ season 8 for Dice. What happened? Another big nono.

4. Fludd on 9, cable pulling on Cape (also on 9), on a 47-47 round 3 semi finals match season 10. Thunder proceeds to beat an underdog Rampage in the finals. Still no.

5. Siege players "abusing" their insane resolutions on younger players. What happened? A legacy was built since no one said no.

6. Vitja having one of the most abusing lag moments during TWLD season 12 playoffs. Bam! Another title and another no.

7. Turban season 14 of 18 (memory failing here) similar to Vitja, having one of those, let's MVP moments while eating 20 projectiles. While I know Turb never induced, I understand lag as good as him..that season was a big nono too.

8. Myself, being a portuguese laggot over and over again. Whilst eating once on your screens and you eating two or three on mine isn't fun for me..it's not fair to you as well. I did spec all of season 12, and season 14 playoffs due to lag issues, but was I really enforced to spec for having an euro latency? Nope.

9. CE users. The client got uptaded around season 10 in order to prevent people from doing it. Was there a massive ban movement on who used to (probably excluding Vys by Pure_Luck) ? No.

10. Ease getting DDO's according to him over a TWLD finals match. Real or not...did something as a witch hunt happen to punish the wrongdoers? No.

11. Delectable being banned due to public pressure, due to "lag" and playing too well for his opponent's tastes. Pascone being a TWL OP and on the same squad, proceeds to unban Dele for playoffs and win TWLD. Guess what? Another no.

12. Were Euro players that won multiple titles like myself, Dreamwin, Turban, Raspi, Sika, Vitja..banned or denied from TWL forever for having an unfair latency compared to Americans? Nope. Even better, champion 250ms users such as Dald, Skatarius or brazillians like MegaNewbie or Iron? Nein.

13. If there was this trend on staff being 'corrupt' over the years..where was the trend on the community abusing glitches and lag half their 20 year careers? I'm sure BannerBoy says No.

14. What really validates what's fair? A council of 3, 4 or even 5 person's biased opinions for either side? Neither will be fair.

15. And my personal favourite. TWLB season 18 never finnished until this very day due to server issues. Whilst Thunder was the better team, all season, that match...and would also most likely win the replay. What happened? Half of Dice wanted an appeal, the other half didn't. Mega ESQ'D and left things on my shoulders. Having TW's opinion on our side, MM_God and the rest of OP's telling us we could force the replay. What did I do? I asked most of their starters if they would accept. Naturally they didn't. Why would I want to win a game forcing other people to play? Imagine going straight to a forfeit on their heads. IT WOULD JUST FUEL THE ENDLESS CYCLE THAT WAS ALREADY ON GOING BECAUSE THE GAME NEVER ENDED. After being denied by my opponents a gracefull defeat, I denied MM's offer.

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The point?

- DW, is an elite player that does not need these moments in order to shine. However, the same way sharks change ships, doing that on that moment opens a Pandora box that can not be undone. Bad idea and terrible timing. You're now point 16 on my book papi. I'm sure that are plenty of others I have no idea on, or remember

- Fire, you guys are near your 30's or over and there's no one to beat except RoboRef and Matchbot7 amidst all your sucess. Let's not be offended virgins, when you were already either punished by or beneficted from on different years. It happened to everyone in TW. Asking a replay is one thing, but a straight forfeit is just sad. You deserve more than that for yourself.

As far as I'm concerned, neither deserve special treatment. The same way DW had no right to shipchange on that moment, Fire has no right no appeal either. One wasn't gracefull in victory and the other wasn?t on defeat.

Let's not re-write the majority of TWL history, because starting today is really bad idea. There are no 'future precedents'. The game hasn't been "good" since around season 12-13, and the last 5 years are nothing more than a ghost town. The only thing that still exists is TW's DNA built around it's biggest blessing and curse, it's community. The game is made of incoheerent, emotional moments during our teenage years and early 20's. If this was a real fair competition, half of these leagues would have 0 validation.

Today, another loop was built. Punishing Fire or Plade is not how you break the wheel. And we're late about 15 years in terms of trully respecting one another.

Here I am, trying to put my little girl back to sleep on my lap at 6:15AM (edit: we both fell asleep) thinking I'd like to teach her how daddy beat these goofs for so long, only to think the cycle is too vicious to even let her loggin in 9/10 years if this was actually here. That's a terrible visit card, no matter how I paint it. Half is cool and dandy, the other half is weird and dodgy. The thought of having some of you pm her would be..atrocious. Look at some of these "white lives, black lives, trump lives, covidfgts, chinavirus" names around in pub, trolling and spilling wrongfull ideologies on such a "sensitive" time we're living with what's going on. Instilling hatefullness and difference is exactly one of the problems we have outside of our computers. It's like half of the darkweb plays this game.

I had more fun today chatting, seeing old faces and rooting for my brother than playing these last 2/3 months semi actively. It seems most of us forgot how to trully have fun, and wins can't buy that. Way too many people, still acting like it's either the early 2000's or they got stuck on a time machine, with the hidden passive agressive stance that comes with aging. So dense.

For some, it's always been a love parade, for others a venting frustation fest. The game didn't move forward, not because of the 2d graphics, or staff's bad decisions. The community that held it for so long up until this day, was never in sync in terms of actually moving the game forward. We're all culprits.

Welcome to TW boys, have yall been sleeping? Take a vodka shot or a line of coke, and enjoy the rest of the ride of this lovely but unfair corner of the universe that we love, called Trench Wars.

I can't speak for most, but you have to be 100% percent sure of what your saying, before you say anything, around here. And now we're sitting here, trying to invent solutions to extend the game's life and be all super strict with ruling and attitudes? Give me a break G's.

TW was never a place where your heart meant anything. But it should, it's been nearly 20 years for some of us. I'd trade all my wins and ex-skill just to have those 75% of time fun times. Now let's join our hands and sing hakuna matata you fucking dookie ass babaloos, untanned polla faced fucks. Papi out :wings:

This sums it up the best. Bravo. Well said.

[Nipple Nibbler]

5. Depending on your latency, players like RageRitual on America, or myself on Europe and few others probably saw the orange ship for an extremely brief moment.

I am Canadian

I did see blip of orange ship, I wish I was recording but I was tabbing in and out regularly to work on the TWL stats. To be fair it happened so fast I don't think a shark could have repped it even if it had reps.

On the topic of weather or not Plade COULD have broken the cram is impossible to say, Mikkiz was still alive and may have lagged his way through the cram. Plade isn't asking for Fire to forfeit for Ogron eating a minedrop + bullets at one point during the game. Forfeit is going too far, especially since the bomb only broke the cram and not actually win the game, Plade had to continue pushing in and get the tek.

Just replay the 3rd round and grant Fire an extra 31 seconds or whatever their lead was.

[Mythril]

loool stayon is the goat. that perspective when you get off this game for an extended time is a beautiful thing. i will join you shortly my friend, but first i gotta argue with these nerdy thunder friends of mine before i'm out for old times sake. although i must say i do agree with your super duper honest decision......

to my buddy mcvic - i don't condone any exploits. i'm just pointing out the obvious hypocrisy from your captain and league operator who wrote this invalid appeal. clearly he doesn't think this bug is a big deal because unfortunately thunder has noted multiple times they were all aware of this happening just last season. zidane set the precedent for punishment when he did absolutely nothing about it. now that you're on the losing end, it's now a class 1 felony according to the thunder rulebook and now dreamwin must face the guillotine.

zidane can't make up or only enforce rules when they benefit him and his squad. he tried to pull this same shit last season in TWDT when he lost in the semifinals and then immediately announced the games were being replayed because of lag. of course, he reversed that decision because of the backlash he would have received. but the point is it doesn't take more than one eyeball to notice the pattern here.

this falls on the league operators who didn't update the rules during the offseason after being aware this was a bug. they also should have reached out to the coders to see what could be done to prevent this, as i'm sure it happens all the time, both intentional and not. as someone who's ran several leagues and wrote the entire rulebook for TWDT that gets copy and pasted every season, i know a thing about how this works. enforcing a previously unenforced rule like this immediately after a loss isn't how it's properly done. i'm not sure how that's controversial.

it's a bug. and what's more hilarious is it's a bug that zidane exploits himself. i still haven't seen a rebuttal for how zidane repping 3x out of cram and dying, then immediately shipchanging to rep 3 more times while invisible isn't the same exploit as this. he knows so much about this bug because he does it himself. if this appeal is accepted, you're basically saying rules matter for everyone except thunder. but it's not like that'd be a revelation.

i just can't figure out why i didn't see a "Dear Zidane" thread where ogron invited zid to sit on his lap while he told him a bedtime story about golfing when he was six years old. if you wanted to have an honest conversation with dreamwin, you could have messaged him in private. instead you guys chose to drive an obvious smear campaign against one of the nicest guys and one of the best leaders this game has seen. kinda fucked up tbh

[zidane]

Mythril has completely lost his mind ladies and gentlemen. This is what happens when someone is so desperate to win they've lost all sense of reality. I was not aware of what dreamwin did last TWDTB season since it was not appealed by Spider and no one talked about it apparently. If Spider had appealed it, I can say with 100% certainty that the appeal would have been approved if it was deemed to have impacted the result of the game. I would have then spoken to someone who codes (BIET) to get an understanding on why it happened.

All the personal attacks on me are just a desperate attempt to change the narrative of what actually happened. I have never cheated in this game in my life, unlike you who was banned for years for using CE. You are a clown.

[Turban]

after sleeping on this one i'm now more indifferent about the result of this appeal. the demands of Fire are far too severe to be even worth of consideration as they punish Plade way too harshly. however now would be a perfect time to implement some much needed changes to competitive league bots.

here are some quick suggestions off the top of my head:

- prevent players from changing ships while they are still in middle of the respawning process. ideally you should be able to queue the command where it activates once a player has spawned for convenience. i believe we worked on this functionality for the last TWL season, but unfortunately it was not fully tested and the option did not get enabled at that time.

- add a 15 second cooldown to both change and switch commands to prevent a commonly abused mechanic with sharks which several squad have abused to reset repels, clear poor mines, and at times it is done unintentionally during respawn timer (which to be fair makes sense as it is much more convenient to make changes while you are dead and have some downtime) resulting in the glitch of being invisible for a short period of time. this glitch has been abused by a lot of squads in the past including Thunder, Plade, Pandora Dudgeon, Dice, Rage, and so forth, and for most part no one has cared enough to complain in a league match about it as these switches are usually done early-to-mid parts of the game.

- allow all players to issue lag checks on other players during league matches. this is something that i had requested in the past and was approved by qan, but was never fully implemented as i had forgotten to make an official request. right now it can take between 60 seconds to never (depending on the league and arena) for bots to automatically check lag information of participating players.

- make the jupe command more well-known and .. somehow more convenient to use. it currently requires an active and observant league referee to take advantage of the command, and we don't have any league referees these days.

[Dwopple]

Mythril has completely lost his mind ladies and gentlemen. This is what happens when someone is so desperate to win they've lost all sense of reality. I was not aware of what dreamwin did last TWDTB season since it was not appealed by Spider and no one talked about it apparently. If Spider had appealed it, I can say with 100% certainty that the appeal would have been approved if it was deemed to have impacted the result of the game. I would have then spoken to someone who codes (BIET) to get an understanding on why it happened.

All the personal attacks on me are just a desperate attempt to change the narrative of what actually happened. I have never cheated in this game in my life, unlike you who was banned for years for using CE. You are a clown.

THIS IS A DESPERATE, PERSONAL ATTACK.

You buffoon. You've abused the same mechanic you're bitching about right now because it negatively affected you and your squad. For fuck's sake take your head out of your ass.

Edit: Stayon and Mythril summed it up very nicely.

[Jurassic]

Lol, I like how this same exact thing happened in twdt playoffs and not a thing was said. Never even saw the jav, thought we got thor'd. Was pretty annoying to lose game 1 of bo3 on that after coming back from being down big. Haven't read the 5+ pages of this. Can't really blame dreamwin for dumb programming / game mechanics tho. In the same way some dumb mod warned people for lag attaching in pub (rofl). If you don't like it, figure out how to fix it.

[2pac]

Zidane talk about my boy myth I'll slap the nerd off ya fucking face kid. Scrub acting like his squad don't use CE currently

[Lock]

the rest of us with integrity who are functional adults don't appeal these types of things because they're classified under 'shit happens.'

This is an interesting statement coming from someone who admitted to using a VPN during TWL matches. How can you claim integrity when you yourself have been caught cheating in the past?

Look, to pretend Dreamwin is acting in good faith here is just bullshit. He was aware that this situation could happen because he is literally on video using it during the last TWDT. He also comments afterwards that it is an in-game mechanic that was never fixed so he obviously understands that it CAN happen. It cannot be proven that he intentionally used it in this manner but it was still used multiple times by the same person. I am not sure why some people in this thread just accept the fact that a glitch/exploit was used to win a game and they are cool with that. Why would you want to win a game by someone on your team using an exploit/glitch/whatever the fuck it is.

After giving this some thought I don't think a forfeit would be fair to any of the parties involved. The rest of Plade didn't use this so they should not be punished. Fire clearly had the win before an actual invisible ship shot a bomb that killed 5 people on our team. We should just replay round 3 and be done with this whole situation. Biet already confirmed he can fix this issue (another party confirming it is an issue) for the future.

had clownhouse had put this much effort with paladen that squad would still be around but he let it die out. Zidane is 40 years old and takes this game way to serious man never logs off same with his buddy beam bat breath, both of you guys sit and watch next week and watch Plade win again with Dreamwin clutch combo jav bomb smash hit double guac guac finish

Can we also not have open racism on the forums? This 2pac loser goes around spouting racist shit all day directed at people. The guy has a very elementary grip on the English language and should probably refrain from speaking as it only makes him look more like a dumbass.

[2pac]

Yo dumb bitch, people use VPN to get a better server connection ask ya boy Turban. Even qan has suggested VPN for better server connection. myth connects to DC server close to him.

You must be a fucking retard to have read my post and mention racism when it doesn't mention racism at all. I'm calling out two idiots for having a dick up their ass on a 2D game trying to call the other people for the same shit they do but don't get called out on forums about it.

Sit your fucking ass down kid I own you 1v1 or with a squad fucking talking to a legend keep my name out ya mouth bitch I'll slap you so hard you'll wanna join the BLM movement

[Lock]

Yo dumb bitch, people use VPN to get a better server connection ask ya boy Turban. Even qan has suggested VPN for better server connection. myth connects to DC server close to him.

You must be a fucking retard to have read my post and mention racism when it doesn't mention racism at all. I'm calling out two idiots for having a dick up their ass on a 2D game trying to call the other people for the same shit they do but don't get called out on forums about it.

Sit your fucking ass down kid I own you 1v1 or with a squad fucking talking to a legend keep my name out ya mouth bitch I'll slap you so hard you'll wanna join the BLM movement

You are not a legend and most people don't even know who you are. If you cannot find the racism in your own post then honestly you may have a learning disability. If that is the case then I am sorry for what I said since you just don't know any better.

I told Myth to turn off his VPN last TWL and his lag went down and his connection was more stable. Use your head man. I know that might be tough for you but give it a try once in a while.

[Riverside]

We're 5 pages in with multiple replies from zidane, but he still hasn't said anything about he himself has been guilty (and has a history) of abusing this glitch to get 6 reps.