TWLB Semi-finals Plade vs. Fire Appeal

[Jones]

I might have missed a few posts here but I believe Riverside is the best wb in this thread

[Rough]

I thought Mythril gave a nice response(good manner) to the aftermath of this game but yet people want to respond to it by attacking him of what he did 12 years ago...The guy was 15 years old I bet and has no relevancy of what transpired yesterday.

The integrity of the zone was very shaky prior to this TWL season and now it’s unraveling. I’m curious of the outcome but this is a lose-lose situation for everyone. The outcome is going to lead people to eventually give up on this game unless there is a new regime that are non thunder players who are leading certain people events

There is only one team in this zone that actually logs on this game to practice their little hearts out and win as much medals as they can while the rest come on to chill and be social to others. I’ll make it clear, I don’t care for either of these teams...Honestly, who cares at this point.... just move on.

[roro]

Which squad is that? Pandora? Rapid? Gun?

[Nipple Nibbler]

I can tell you right now I have never changed myself to a jav, been invisible, and taken out a whole cram. Only dreamwin has done that, and he's done it twice in 2020 alone.

So he was not even warned for it then, but now we are talking about bans and forfeits? Consistency; the rules need to be clear and followed always not just when it suites you. (*cough* Riverside). The bomb was unfair, patch the bot (please test it during the week before replay), give Dreamwin a warning that he never got the first time. There is no way to reproduce the game from before the bomb so replay round 3 from the start. Give Fire a 30 second advantage. The team that truly deserves the win will earn it and move on.

[Spezza]

For this thread I was on dreamwins dt team and honestly never even noticed he was invisible so sorry for not bringing it up. Both sides in this thread have valid points and it's very obvious that one side will be screwed and butthurt over the outcome(which is very understandable as there are valid cases for both). I think a replay would be fairest just because there are a lot of what-ifs and motives being assumed without any real way of fully knowing.

let's stop pretending that if the shoe were on the other foot this would not be appealed. Gun would appeal this and I think most other squads would too.

It's frustrating that we continue to build our own narratives while not acknowledging others perspectives to bring others down. We can do better.

FINALLY. Take everything anyone says directly after or during a game with a grain of salt. Many ppl still get lost in heat of "competition" and say dumb stuff - I do.

[zidane]

Nipple - I have said this repeatedly.... I had no idea Dreamwin did this during DTB, I was playing my own semi-final at the same time and no one appealed or reached out to me (or staff as far as I'm aware). If we had been made aware of it dreamwin would have been warned, the game would have possibly been successfully appealed, and the bot would have been fixed. We can't fix issues we don't know exist, clearly Spider didn't care enough at the time to complain about a ridiculous exploit abuse. Fire does care though, Spider not caring enough has no relevance here.

[maketso]

I think it's also worth mentioning that Dreamwin not only abused this exploit once, but twice in that short 13 second video. At 0:04 he dies to Lockdown and then instantly changes himself to bypass his first 5 second death cooldown, at 0:07 he dies to hellkite while being invisible, at 0:10 he then changes himself to spider, bypassing his death cooldown again by at least 2 seconds this time (probably didn't have the macro ready).

It should be pretty obvious to you that a captain does !change/!switch/!sub when he is dead and not in the middle of a fight when he is just about to get a tek

[Nipple Nibbler]

Nipple - I have said this repeatedly.... I had no idea Dreamwin did this during DTB, I was playing my own semi-final at the same time and no one appealed or reached out to me (or staff as far as I'm aware). If we had been made aware of it dreamwin would have been warned, the game would have possibly been successfully appealed, and the bot would have been fixed. We can't fix issues we don't know exist, clearly Spider didn't care enough at the time to complain about a ridiculous exploit abuse. Fire does care though, Spider not caring enough has no relevance here.

"If we had been made aware of it dreamwin would have been warned, the game would have possibly been successfully appealed, and the bot would have been fixed."

So if in THAT scenario it would only been appealed and Dreamwin only gets warned. But because this one was against Fire, Plade should forfeit?

The simple solution, replay the 3rd round and give Dreamwin a warning. Be fair.

[zidane]

Unfortunately its not that simple Nipp. Given the context of the game, Fire's win probability was probably around 99% at that point in time. This appeal isn't about whether dreamwin should be banned from twl, it's about how he purposefully exploited a bug multiple times to prevent his team from losing. He has now done this multiple times, and the first time went unnoticed. In my opinion his cheating has robbed Plades 1% chance at winning the game. That's my stance on it, and the stance of many besides people on Plade/trolls.

The decision makers will decide what happens next.

[ixt]

i wouldnt say "many people besides plade" as many people have voiced a potential replay with fire up, goodluck decision makers

[Singer]

i wouldnt say "many people besides plade" as many people have voiced a potential replay with fire up, goodluck decision makers

The main problem is that zidane in his moment of rage decided to go power hungry and appeal for a straight up forfeit and not a replay,
the way I'm looking at the rules, the appeal can only be denied/approved, none of that bullshit middle-ground of accepting to replay, since that not what zidane appealed for.

AND if somehow the almighty decision makers decide to re-write the rules and push for a replay "to be fair to everyone", because everyone knows this game is bullshit anyway, that would still mean that the original appeal to have Plade forfeit was denied..

And what happens when an appeal is denied..?
11. Appeals Process and Guidelines
......If an appeal is denied, the player making the appeal will not be eligible to play in the next game.

Thank you for your time lol

[Nipple Nibbler]

How would a replay be a bad thing? It feels unfair to kick Plade out of the playoffs for one player. Both teams are great teams, we shouldn't make decisions based on what if's. There is no way to tell what could have happened, we have seen many crams break into last second flagroom battles and 29:59 minute games happen.

I realize I am on Plade but I have nothing to gain by them either winning or losing, I am only on their TWL roster for emergency backup and won't be getting any medals if they win. I am offering my opinion without bias, and looking at it from both perspectives

Dreamwin abused a bug, but there is no way to be 100% certain he did it on purpose. Quite often teams will change someone to Javelin for that last little effort to break crams. What happened really sucks for Fire, and should warrant a replay. But if Dreamwin honestly did not do it intentionally how is a forfeit fair to Plade?

[Cape]

After reviewing the footage I must say those are some great matches and I even like the ending. We got the last minute dog fight in FR to end it. That is a GG in my book.

Did Ogron try to bluff Mikkiz off flag without a burst only to get shot a million times and have to port away?
Or did he think he could drop his teammates up, but miss-calculated the attach timing?

Who knows, but the match was decided in the last FR fight NOT the cram break.
If fire was too upset after a BS cram break, then that's on them.

As for the play in question:
Did you guys play this game for the last 20 years? This is how it goes sometimes and it sucks.
Fix the bug, better luck next year.

[Efhat]

After reviewing the footage I must say those are some great matches and I even like the ending. We got the last minute dog fight in FR to end it. That is a GG in my book.

Did Ogron try to bluff Mikkiz off flag without a burst only to get shot a million times and have to port away?
Or did he think he could drop his teammates up, but miss-calculated the attach timing?

Who knows, but the match was decided in the last FR fight NOT the cram break.
If fire was too upset after a BS cram break, then that's on them.

As for the play in question:
Did you guys play this game for the last 20 years? This is how it goes sometimes and it sucks.
Fix the bug, better luck next year.

This.
This has been apart of the game since the dawn of it. Same with jupes (which have caused a lot of upsets in the past), sharks switching to remove mines, what about rep ignores caused by javelins purposely being repped while rocketing and destroying crams in previous TWLs ie Necromotic/Nockm/Domi/another jav who abused it but I forgot who it was. How many outcomes has that decided?
This argument can also be made with laggy spiders who know if they push a certain way with their lag it will cause a rep ignore.

In the end, I think we all know if you’ve played this game for over 10 years, if you immediately switch from a ship, you’ll be invisible for a few seconds. Some people have done it in warbird too in base. I know this sucks for Fire, and I’d be fucking pissed too. But it’s part of the game unless a rule against it is made.

To the point of this:
If this isn’t in the rules (something that has been in this game for decades, there’s nothing to do)Myself and plenty of others have lost because of bugs in the past. It’s what makes SS, SS.
Add it to the rules next season (if there is one) and move on. Like others have said, change the cool down period to a special switch to avoid this.
Same thing with jupes.

I just don’t see how this will get granted based off of one cram break. A whole game. And like Cape said, both teams reset in that final FR battle or two. Yes, Fire maybe could’ve held the cram to win, maybe not, we won’t ever know that. But at this point to replay a whole game or series based off of this one incident, I just don’t see it.
if a flag juped for a minute, or two that’s a different story.
dont know,
I see both sides to this. And like I said, if I was Fire I’d be fucking PISSEDDDDDDD.
but in the end, I don’t think this will warrant a whole replay or forfeit.

btw, all of you that called me a retard for buying 5k shares of royal Caribbean at 20.01 and said I will lose my money,
look where the stock is at now.
fuck u, I’ll make sure to send you pics of me on symphony of the seas in my suite with my pina colada and all expenses paid cruise for being a premium shareholder.
fuck u

[Flew]

All I know is Zidane is mad that I borrowed him in a bd so he could give coords and deaths.