4 spid limit and 3 rounds-thoughts?

[kentaro]

REMOVE ALL LIMITS

and yes to 3 rounds!

[Pearl Jam]

Most everyone knows what side of the fence I'm on. I'd prefer the 4 spider limit. Specialty ships don't ruin games, people! They are exactly that - a ship that requires a special skill. Lets not be naive...with the exception of a select handful of people who are heads and shoulders above the rest of the pack, it isn't exactly super difficult to become an above-average, servicable starting spider in TWLB. They're a dime a dozen. Adding more ships adds variety. Plus, if you polled spectators as to what type of match they'd rather watch in TWLB, I'm confident most would prefer watching a bonehead jav TK his whole team or a warbird making a clutch terr kill in a heated game than watching 5 spiders and 2 sharks do the same thing 5 spiders and 2 sharks always do: cram, push against the cram, alternate reps, cover under and over, cram some more. We get it. It works.

Am I bias? Of course I am - I played on a squad for a long time that refused to conform to 5 spiders even after it was pretty much the norm (kudos to Diso for doing the same thing this previous season to mix things up).

At the same time, I understand the proponents of the 5 spider lineups arguements fully: why change from what is clearly a superior lineup?

Because this league and TW on the whole has been slowly declining in popularity AND population for the past 3-4 years. Lets inject some life into the highest level of competition and hopefully it will trickle down into other areas of the zone. I decided to attempt to learn how to play basejav from stumbling across a Disoblige TWLB match one day about 5 years ago and seeing Nockm (might've been Smack man actually, forgive me, I'm old) hit impossible shot after impossible shot. What does a wet-behind-the-ears amateur baser think now upon entering a packed TWLB arena to see what all the hubbub is about? "Oh man, if only I could replicate the mine placement and cram-repping that PH utilizes! TWLB fame here I come!" "Sweet Jesus, I can't wait to learn how to accurately aim and conserve energy properly like bram does when he is spidering in a cram!"

Refuse to do the 4 spider limit? Fine. Then implement ZERO ship limits. Want 3 sharks? 2 terrs? A levi? Fucking do it, man. The more options we have, the more impressive it will be when a squad uses an unorthodox one effectively.

God forbid we make squad captains use their brain concerning lineup strategy in TWLB for the first time in 3 years.

The only wrinkle in my thinking is this, though: I think no matter what is done, the amount of ship changes can't be unlimited. That would be absolute chaos. I'd cap it at 5-6 or so.

This game needs that sometimes impressive/sometimes hilariously bad x-factor. Do you like watching good, consistent shooting and defense in an NBA game? I'm sure you do. But imagine what an NBA game would be like without ANY chance of the occasional rim-rocking dunk? Better yet, the chance of someone horribly missing a dunk? In my opinion, that's what TWLB hasn't had for a while- the highlights. Every game is virtually the same. Every squad uses the same stale, vanilla techniques, except some squads are better at those techniques than others. It's so repetitive I've been turned off from TWLB for a couple years now, and I'm someone that has been around the block in this league. Imagine what someone that is new to basing thinks when they watch it? Yikes.

Lets add some more strategy. And some more highlights.

EDIT: Keep 3 rounds for the playoffs, not regular season.

[megaman89]

reserved for reply to pj's post in 1-3 days

[Scoop]

yet you'll still play, so i guess that doesn't really matter.

I'm not too sure hes actually played twl.

[Zerzera]

if a squad has their best lineup with a jav or wb, they have the opportunity to play that lineup.

A squad that has a javelin or warbird in their best lineup isn't close to the best squad in the tournament then though, because in the current settings, the 1-2-5 lineup is the superior lineup.
The logic in your post goes as far as "of course you are free to lose the match if you want to"

[Zeebu]

i like you pearl jam

[Dreamwin]

Next twlb make 8 completely new ships and base, and let ppl prac like 1 month with them. (TWD)

[Exalt]

I'm not too sure hes actually played twl.

lol scoop your so hateful aren't you?

yawn, see you in twl fool

[Capital Knockers]

Most everyone knows what side of the fence I'm on. I'd prefer the 4 spider limit. Specialty ships don't ruin games, people! They are exactly that - a ship that requires a special skill. Lets not be naive...with the exception of a select handful of people who are heads and shoulders above the rest of the pack, it isn't exactly super difficult to become an above-average, servicable starting spider in TWLB. They're a dime a dozen. Adding more ships adds variety. Plus, if you polled spectators as to what type of match they'd rather watch in TWLB, I'm confident most would prefer watching a bonehead jav TK his whole team or a warbird making a clutch terr kill in a heated game than watching 5 spiders and 2 sharks do the same thing 5 spiders and 2 sharks always do: cram, push against the cram, alternate reps, cover under and over, cram some more. We get it. It works.

Am I bias? Of course I am - I played on a squad for a long time that refused to conform to 5 spiders even after it was pretty much the norm (kudos to Diso for doing the same thing this previous season to mix things up).

At the same time, I understand the proponents of the 5 spider lineups arguements fully: why change from what is clearly a superior lineup?

Because this league and TW on the whole has been slowly declining in popularity AND population for the past 3-4 years. Lets inject some life into the highest level of competition and hopefully it will trickle down into other areas of the zone. I decided to attempt to learn how to play basejav from stumbling across a Disoblige TWLB match one day about 5 years ago and seeing Nockm (might've been Smack man actually, forgive me, I'm old) hit impossible shot after impossible shot. What does a wet-behind-the-ears amateur baser think now upon entering a packed TWLB arena to see what all the hubbub is about? "Oh man, if only I could replicate the mine placement and cram-repping that PH utilizes! TWLB fame here I come!" "Sweet Jesus, I can't wait to learn how to accurately aim and conserve energy properly like bram does when he is spidering in a cram!"

Refuse to do the 4 spider limit? Fine. Then implement ZERO ship limits. Want 3 sharks? 2 terrs? A levi? Fucking do it, man. The more options we have, the more impressive it will be when a squad uses an unorthodox one effectively.

God forbid we make squad captains use their brain concerning lineup strategy in TWLB for the first time in 3 years.

The only wrinkle in my thinking is this, though: I think no matter what is done, the amount of ship changes can't be unlimited. That would be absolute chaos. I'd cap it at 5-6 or so.

This game needs that sometimes impressive/sometimes hilariously bad x-factor. Do you like watching good, consistent shooting and defense in an NBA game? I'm sure you do. But imagine what an NBA game would be like without ANY chance of the occasional rim-rocking dunk? Better yet, the chance of someone horribly missing a dunk? In my opinion, that's what TWLB hasn't had for a while- the highlights. Every game is virtually the same. Every squad uses the same stale, vanilla techniques, except some squads are better at those techniques than others. It's so repetitive I've been turned off from TWLB for a couple years now, and I'm someone that has been around the block in this league. Imagine what someone that is new to basing thinks when they watch it? Yikes.

Lets add some more strategy. And some more highlights.

EDIT: Keep 3 rounds for the playoffs, not regular season.

Honestly, how can anyone say no to this arguement? God Damnit people, let's make basing more interesting. Most of the people I've seen saying no spider limit, are the people that win using that tactic a hell of alot. Let's shake things up, force them to actually do more than just de-rust in spider and start playing again. Get people on their toes, not just locked into the same strat, and techniques every good baser uses.

"Refuse to do the 4 spider limit? Fine. Then implement ZERO ship limits. Want 3 sharks? 2 terrs? A levi? Fucking do it, man. The more options we have, the more impressive it will be when a squad uses an unorthodox one effectively."

Thats the hook for me, fuck the ship limits, maybe even increase the ships like pascone said. Basing squads are huge anyways, fuck let's rip this twlb a new one Mirr! I wanna see something different, I grew up watching Pallies and Diso going at it and Light, and etc etc. Those were fun to watch, I actually set aside time for it, now I can't be bothered to watch an LB for longer than 5 minutes!

[Scoop]

lol scoop your so hateful aren't you?

yawn, see you in twl fool

wasn't hating, just stating.

[Exalt]

wasn't hating, just stating.

not stating cuz u know i been in twl like for tons of seasons now fool, you just hating on my awesome self, screw u cockmonger hAH new word, not my fault last season i was in military so when i finally joined a squad after being gone 6 months it had to be lifeban that dissolved like 4 weeks into it... i didnt know any better at the time, dont hate the player hate the game

[Jones]

yes I could actually vote on unlimited ship changes

Was thinking awhile ago about an idea for massive changes to how we play competetive basing now that I think might be alot of fun to implement in the future. I'm not sure if anyone's ever suggested it before or if it's too much work to even bother with, but I thought I'd open it up for discussion.

The plan would be to eliminate bot controlled ship changes. Let players individually change ships at will the same as you can in pub. Obviously you'd need a bot monitoring that teams only had 1 terrier, 2 sharks, and no levis, (or maybe let the levi in, it might be interesting used in 8v8 basing). If anyone violated this they could perhaps be changed back to what they were before, or specced for a few seconds as a penalty. Anyhow, other than that the shipchanges would be in the hands of the players.

The goal would be to open a whole new level of teamwork and strategy. You'd have piles and piles more room to work out different strats for different points and situations in a game, and would have to have players you could trust to do what's most useful at any given point in time. Basing as we know it would be pretty well rewritten, and would show alot more variety and excitement in games. Drop a couple wb's into the game when you take control. Switch to spids on offence. Use some javs for heavy bombing of crams. Cloak anytime you think you can get away with it. (on that line of thought I'd love to see those pub mini cloakers in competetive basing arenas, send an x up to roof to steal flag when youre getting crammed to death to disrupt their terr a little, but that's a suggestion for another day)

Some flaws I could see would be 5 wb's floating in spawn after a td, which could seriously suck. Other than that I haven't come up with anything else bad yet, nor do I see any reason why I'd personally prefer the current style of basing. I'm guessing that the bot code needed to implement this would probably be simpler than what we have now, just need intermittent checks on the number of ships of each type in play, or events triggered when a ship change is detected, if that's even possible. Start of game would be interesting, perhaps bot interaction would be required to put players into the game. Come to think of it the arena lock probably prevents players from changing ships, so perhaps bot interaction would still be required for every ship change, but the players themselves could still do that interacting and with a good set of macros it'd be a very uncomplicated process.

Questions problems or comments? Any reason you prefer the current style of basing over something like this? If there's enough interest and I can get tw staff to agree I'll code that shit up and maybe we could give it a test run in go base or something. Critiques are welcome, but you're wrong if you disagree.

http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthread.php?t=10862

[eelam <tw>]

re

k is it me or is every1 asking for a spider limit totally retarded?

1. there is no limit right now, so teams are allowed to use speicals if you want to use specials by ALL MEANS do so, no one is stopping you. ( just like diso did last season)

2. Why are u restricting on teams from using the superior strategy that has been working for many squads and a strategy that many squads have built there team around, just because a select few dont know how to own it? Squads like Pandora and Dice have perfected this type of strategy, that if one shark doenst hit 3 good reps you know your terr is going to die.

All in all, you guys keep on arguing "let captains" be creative with there lineups, but what your doing is actually restricting that creativity by puting a restriction on the number of spiders a team can use. Right now there are no restrictions, teams can use 3 wbs 2 spiders, 1 jav 1 wb 3 spiders its totally up to the captains will, just dont be angry if a squad uses 5 spiders and stomps the shit outta you. All that means is if you dont wanna use 5 spiders you better come up with a better line.

ALL HAIL KING EELAM

[freddie]

k is it me or is every1 asking for a spider limit totally retarded?

1. there is no limit right now, so teams are allowed to use speicals if you want to use specials by ALL MEANS do so, no one is stopping you. ( just like diso did last season)

2. Why are u restricting on teams from using the superior strategy that has been working for many squads and a strategy that many squads have built there team around, just because a select few dont know how to own it? Squads like Pandora and Dice have perfected this type of strategy, that if one shark doenst hit 3 good reps you know your terr is going to die.

All in all, you guys keep on arguing "let captains" be creative with there lineups, but what your doing is actually restricting that creativity by puting a restriction on the number of spiders a team can use. Right now there are no restrictions, teams can use 3 wbs 2 spiders, 1 jav 1 wb 3 spiders its totally up to the captains will, just dont be angry if a squad uses 5 spiders and stomps the shit outta you. All that means is if you dont wanna use 5 spiders you better come up with a better line.

ALL HAIL KING EELAM

Problem is that there already are restrictions and thats why people want spider limit too, cause 4 spider + 1 special is funnier.

[eelam <tw>]

re

well you can do 4 spiders 1 special right now as well, dont get your argument, if you want it to be funnier than make ur squad do it. Why you forcing other squads to do it?