Thread not about the Thunder sub that cost Pirates the game. Don't worry.

[Capital Knockers]

When I referred to the flag jupe I was using it to show that that was also known by the public, not mentioned in the TWL rules, the replay was also denied, and then a rule was made to prevent further problems with it.

It's pretty childish and immature that just because you didnt get your way you decide to do the same thing you have been whining about. But I know I shouldnt expect better. Which is why I'll repeat myself again and say a solution will be created to prevent this from happening again.

I'll leave you guys now to continue your discussion. I think we are now just repeating ourselves over and over and not much more productivity can come from this.

You're really good at bringing up new points, and then quickly jumping to another. Almost like going from one sinking ship to another. You brought up the flag jupe comments hoping it would help your arguements, but failed to see that it only provided a better counter-arguement. The flag-jupe can't be pulled off intentionally. Meanwhile we can have people sitting in spec ready to sub someone out. Draft it really isn't that hard, it's just timing and experience. Thing is, the majority of the TWL population isn't lame enough to even bother.

Oh and speaking of lame, Ease. That game is entirely different. I watched both in their entire length. Disoblige didn't intentionally do that, and it didn't have a direct unfair advantage for them that won them the game.

With the amount of veterans, staff members, ex staff-members, and plain witnesses - how in the fucking world can you still be not giving us our appeal MirrirriM? You refuse to address several main points from Mattey and Kthx, and the only people really supporting the denial of the appeal are Thunder and Izor. Really, what the fucking hell is the problem? If you've got this much of the community in arms - don't you think that maybe, just maybe, they could be right?

I think you're just afraid to change your mind now that it's come this far, and because so many Pirates members have gotten angry with you, you don't even want to change your mind. While I can understand that, put your emotions aside and do your job right. We obviously have perfectly legit reason for an appeal - grant it.

[Creature]

very good demonstration creature, but you need to work on your indenting, if i were your TA i would give you 6/10 for style.

I swear it's intended when I typed it..........

[Nimrook]

for (Easedeaths < 10) {
if (sub == true) { // The bot is checking if sub used
sub Ease out for Ardour // Sub Ease out
}
return Easepacketdeaths // Get packet from Ease's client count deaths
if (Easepacketdeaths = 1) {
Easedeaths = Easedeaths + Easepacketdeaths // Add death
if (Easedeaths == 10) {
Print "Ease is out." + Easekills + "wins" + Easedeaths + "losses"
}

very good demonstration creature, but you need to work on your indenting, if i were your TA i would give you 6/10 for style.

Anyways, bots are not perfect, in this situation they did wrong. I don't get how you people trust a bot more than real eyes. Wonder why there are always some tech people as backup just incase the computer or anything computer related fails.

Like i said before in the dynasty appeal thread it's good to see how many people still care about this game. Keep it up

[Draft]

Yes it is unfortunate that you consider undoing the damage of the sub being punishment. Since you did the sub, and is responsible for this mess, then it also makes sense that you are the ones running the risk of having to pay for it if what you did actually caused damage. I don't support giving you guys any sort of extra punishment or anything, I just want the wrong thing you guys did to be undone as best as possible. A punishment would be giving you a 50-0 loss, or us a 50-0 loss. I'm personally fine with you changing the score of our loss if that makes anyone feel better.

i'd pay for it if it was on rules




edit:haha thanks for that creatnerd

[Creature]

Didn't want to have to reply to this thread but the same five people are having the same discussion over and over again. Clearly some people need to learn how SUBBING WORKS.

Let's explain:

C 4:spikey> us
Ease has been substituted by Ardour, with 1 deaths left

At this point in time, the bot has recorded a substitute by Ease as the !sub command has been used. Looking at it from a programming perspective, the sub command is being called BEFORE it checks for a death. You idiots need to learn that code cannot be simultaneously read at the SAME TIME. It is technically IMPOSSIBLE for the bot to be checking for 10 deaths and applying a sub. The sub overrides and breaks the loop checking for 10 deaths in milliseconds to sub ease.

T saetep> yeah
Ease is out. 12 wins 10 losses
T ignite> whoa

How did Ease get 10 deaths if he was in spec then? On Ease's screen, due to his lag (probably 60ms) the sub has NOT occured yet. Therefore, his client is still sending packets to the bot. The bot has already completed the sub command and is now 1/100th of a millsecond going back into a loop and receieves a packet from Ease's client saying that he has DIED. Therefore, the bot finishes this loop and adds +1 to Ease's death even though he has already been subbed out. A separate function PRINTS this on the screen so everyone will cry. Contradictory to whatever you nerds are believing, the bot is STILL RECORDING statistics of players who are in spec. The method the bot is coded ensures that in order to prevent recording extra deaths, SPECS the player. Unfortunately due to the lag on Ease's screen, the bot printed out the 10 deaths when they ACTUALLY DID NOT OCCUR but ONLY OCCURED on Ease's screen. In REAL TIME, the bullet NEVER hit Ease.

Let me demonstrate with some simple pseudocoding for you nerds

for (Easedeaths < 10) {
if (sub == true) { // The bot is checking if sub used
sub Ease out for Ardour // Sub Ease out
}
return Easepacketdeaths // Get packet from Ease's client count deaths
if (Easepacketdeaths = 1) {
Easedeaths = Easedeaths + Easepacketdeaths // Add death
if (Easedeaths == 10) {
Print "Ease is out." + Easekills + "wins" + Easedeaths + "losses"
}
}

So guys, where does the issue lie? The bot completes the loop and records Ease's death from the packet that Ease sends (because Ease has not been subbed on his screen DUE TO LAG) when in fact Ease is technically never in game. You people are retarded saying he can't die in spec. Technically he CAN.

End of story. Any further questions please cry to someone who understands concept of programming and how lag works.

[Noah]

that was a typo, edited

oh ya, replay is no punishment for the winner

Yes it is unfortunate that you consider undoing the damage of the sub being punishment. Since you did the sub, and is responsible for this mess, then it also makes sense that you are the ones running the risk of having to pay for it if what you did actually caused damage. I don't support giving you guys any sort of extra punishment or anything, I just want the wrong thing you guys did to be undone as best as possible. A punishment would be giving you a 50-0 loss, or us a 50-0 loss. I'm personally fine with you changing the score of our loss if that makes anyone feel better.

Pascone, there are scales of everything. It isn't just black and white. Sometimes a bug can be completely irrelevant and make no impact on anything, and other times it can have a huge impact on an important game. That just means that you have to consider the impact the bug had on the game before you decide to act on it. If someone lags, but not enough to make any significant impact on the game nobody gives a shit, but when someone lags and it has a huge impact then it becomes a different situation.

Let's take a real example with this: I ignite a firecracker and throw it at the floor, no damage is done, so there is no harm. Now I ignite another firecracker and throw it at someone, blowing off a thumb. Now, I never did anything illegal by igniting a firecracker and throwing it, but in the second scenario I also caused another person damage. It is illegal to purposely cause another person damage, so I would be guilty of that. In this case Pirates is the other person, and the law in this case is the TWL rules that has that "major impact" to it. I cba to dig up the specific rule, but you get my point.

Edit: I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a rule against this at all. I would like to see some sort of rule or system implemented that didn't let you sub anyone with less than 1500 energy. However since this rule isn't anywhere yet then subbing like this is legal, but the damage caused by it is covered elsewhere.

[Dwopple]

what i'm saying is you can't complain about something because it doesn't benefit you in one situation and ignore it completely in a situation where it doesn't benefit you to replay the situation

THIS is my whole problem with the appeal. when you appeal something because you lost, that's the reason for the appeal. it has to be seen from both sides. where's pirates appeal for the jav game?

diso didnt appeal the jav game....even if they did, diso is the one who committed the fault therefore the game would in reality be 50-0 for the forfeit. If you care to refute what i just said then why not add every TWL team can do this glitch if they are losing to force a replay. get ur shit straight pascone.

[PH]

it benefited him so much that he lost.

[pascone]

Haha this is so easy. Sorry Mattey I know this one is your but I can't help myself.

So you are saying that because there are a bigger issues with this game, we shouldn't care about minor issues that still can cause alot of damage?

what i'm saying is you can't complain about something because it doesn't benefit you in one situation and ignore it completely in a situation where it doesn't benefit you to replay the situation

THIS is my whole problem with the appeal. when you appeal something because you lost, that's the reason for the appeal. it has to be seen from both sides. where's pirates appeal for the jav game?

[Draft]

that was a typo, edited

oh ya, replay is no punishment for the winner

[Noah]

support them all u want, i'm just saying if theres consequences for thunder, there will be for diso one way or another

yes i know we won the game, other punishments such as permently stopping the captain the did the sub etc

We should permently stopping the captain the did the sub?

As said by Mirriorim, there are no rules against this yet, and in our case it did no damage at all. There isn't going to be any punishment for Thunder for this, except having to replay the game. Replaying the game isn't punishment, it's more like giving Pirates a deserved chance to win the game without the damage that was caused by this flaw. If Pirates really wants to say that our sub fucked up the game for them, and that they want the game replayed then I couldn't have refused them that. However, just like in your case, there isn't really any additional punishment that logically could be added.

[Dwopple]

did some thinking...this is kinda the exact opposite if when two players kill eachother at the same time and one of them is on 9...sometimes the kill isnt registered with the out message but the kill WILL be in the final results. Even the bot corrects its stupid mistake in the end.

Now i didnt exactly ponder on this as much as i should have, but hopefully i leave the door open for someone else who is putting alot of thought into this.

[Mattey]

you still never get hit idiot

Show me bot protocol that backs this up. You can't because you aren't staff.

This is why I was like "hey Mirrorrim answer this", not like "Hey uninformed trolling idiot, I got a question fer ya.

[kthx]

You know damn well if this had lost us a game against like Dynasty or something you would be up in arms about it also Izor.

[Izor]

you still never get hit idiot