Thread not about the Thunder sub that cost Pirates the game. Don't worry.

[pascone]

diso didnt appeal the jav game....even if they did, diso is the one who committed the fault therefore the game would in reality be 50-0 for the forfeit. If you care to refute what i just said then why not add every TWL team can do this glitch if they are losing to force a replay. get ur shit straight pascone.

so because you won one game where it happened, it doesn't matter. but when it happens in a different game in which you lose, it's a big deal. this is simply an excuse for losing. blame yourself instead of everyone else

also, mattey said it happens once every 10 twl seasons yet it happened twice already this year? i'm just sayin

[Salubrious]

everytime I click nextpage I return to the same page

can someone fix this for me, I think it's a bug and twforums are cheating

[Zingy]

The time the bot does the *spec command doesn't determine when the sub is "official"

I am not arguing whether or not Ease was killed before the bot itself did the *spec command. How fast it does the *spec command isn't when the "sub" has "officially" taken place. The sub has taken place when the bot has "validated" or "authorized" the sub to take place, after confirming that the player in question is still alive. The fact that there are milliseconds between the authorization and the *spec did not change the game because the bot had already considered the sub to have been valid before Ease died. If Ease had already been dead before the Bot checked if the sub is valid, the bot would not have gone through with putting Ardour in.

Timing Scenario:

1. <Ease and Chuckle fire bullets>
2. Chuckle killed by Ease.
3. <Sometime before, around or shortly after the bullets being fired the bot would have received the !sub command from Thunder's (A) and after a short delay would have "authorized" that Ease was alive right now and would have authorized the sub>
4. <Chuckle's bullet hits Ease>
5. 50-100millisecond later, the bot actually does the *arena message that "Ardour has been subbed in". The arena message doesnt determine when the "official" time the sub has taken place occurs... that is just when the bot notifies the arena. The sub would have been valid by the bot BEFORE the bot did the green arena message.
6. Some more milliseconds later, the bot does the *arena message saying "Ease is out. X wins Z losses"

The matchbots are the scorekeepers of the game, and there was no "glitch" (the ability to sub in situations like this has always existed, all teams can try to sub in a situation like this if they want to try, most will be unsuccessful).

The bot can only issue 1 command at a time to the server, so there will always be delays in programming. What matters is not the time when the bot *spec'd Ease, but when the bot itself validated the sub.

After the bot already recognized that Ease was alive and that the sub is authorized, milliseconds afterwards, a bullet hit Ease. The bot itself had already recognized that the sub took place milliseconds before the bullet hit ease. If Ease had been dead already before the bot authorized the sub, the sub would never have gone through since the bot will not allow a killed out player to be subbed.

The fact that there was a delay on the level of milliseconds doesn't change the fact that the "sub", as the bot authorized it, took place when the bot recognized that Ease was alive and allowed the sub to take place. That is the "official" time when the sub took place, not the time when the bot manually *spec'd Ease and *setship'd Ardour.

Important Point: The fact that the *arena for "Ardour has been subbed in" came before "Ease is out X wins Z losses" means that the bot had recognized the sub as valid BEFORE the bullet had hit Ease milliseconds afterwards. If the bot had seen Ease's death before it had gone through the "validation" of the sub, the sub would not have gone through since Ease would have already been dead.

When we're talking on the range of 50-100ms, we might say that the bot theoretically should have *spec'd Ease some milliseconds faster, but Thunder did not get an advantage from this 50-100ms delay before Ease got spec'd because Chuckle died to Ease's bullet close to 1 second before Ease died to Chuckle's bullet (chuckle's bullet was a floater). Chuckle died before the bot authorized Ease's sub. The bot validated the sub, and then the bullet hit Ease. The sub was valid and "official" at the point the bot recognized that Ease was still alive. Again, we're talking about milliseconds here that exist in all types of computer programming, and especially when it involves internet latency.

Therefore, Thunder gained no advantage because Chuckle would have been dead already even if the bot had spec'd Ease faster. The bot validated the sub, but was not quick enough to *spec Ease to prevent the bullet from hitting him... This doesn't change the fact that the sub was "valid" milliseconds before his death. Otherwise, like I said before, the bot would not have allowed the sub to take place. He should simply have been spec'd by the bot faster, but this 50-100ms delay did not change the game because the sub was already valid before he died. Thunder did not gain an "extra death" because Ease's death by Chuckle's bullet was a death that should not have happened in the first place.

Since in the bot's programming the sub had already been validated milliseconds before Ease died (when the bot recognized that Ease was alive) that was the official time when the sub took place. If Ease had already died before the sub was validated, the sub would not have gone through. The bot saw Ease alive when it validated the sub because the green arena message saying "Ardour has been subbed" came BEFORE the arena message (generated by the bot) saying "Ease is out. X wins Z losses."

[Izor]

It may not be a bug, but it's definitely an oversight as this situation is something that should have been accounted for in the code.

It's an oversight, you're right. And we're about to see a bunch of squads trying to abuse it over the next couple weeks in hopes that they can replicate it, but it wont happen. The timing here is literally milliseconds. If that bullet had reached Ease (im guessing) 50-100 ms earlier, he would have died and not gotten the sub off. You're acting as though theres a 2 second window from when you issue !sub to when the sub processes that allowed this to occur.

On top of this, weve all known about this bug for years. Many years. No one has brought it up because its not at all important. Thats why the sub delay was added was to prevent such faggotry, but it will still happen from time to time anyway.

btw mattey we'll see if i choke come playoffs but i wouldnt count on it. What will be more interesting to see is if you actually play in the playoffs, which I highly doubt. You'll most likely watch me trample your team with my rushing and teaming ability

[Mattey]

The rules state you can use subs at any time, that's why. Ease's own lag caused his death, not really a bug.

Oh really, it wasn't chuckle's bullet that caused the death?

Get the fuck out of here. Thunder is filled with gaping vaginas.

[Capital Knockers]

Screw it, I said I'm out of this arguement, I'm out.

[Stabwound]

Something that is due to a delay caused by either lag or because of inherent latency in any form of computer programming is not a bug.

It may not be a bug, but it's definitely an oversight as this situation is something that should have been accounted for in the code.

[Scoop]

You know none of what we are talking about even matters, we are getting stuck on semantics instead of the real problem.

If this game was the TWLD finals would you have allowed Thunder to win TWL-D based on a bot bug that was being manipulated?

That is really the only question that matters, if you wouldn't then you are basically admitting that it is a stupid way for a squad to win a game and that this match needs to be replayed.

If you would then you are basically leaving yourself open to another "Stray vs Thunder" situation from last seasons TWLD, and I don't think TWL can handle another moronic decision like that.

Because although the TWLD finals has higher stakes, every game in this league should be treated with equal importance.

[kthx]

1. Ease got Killed
2. Ease got specced for 10 deaths
3. Ease got subbed for Ardour.

---

The server log showed these three things happening at the exact same time, in the same second, in this order. How can you argue it?

[Summa]

Manipulation requires intent to abuse some kind of "bug."

you forgot the word concious. i don't think this was done at all with the concious intention of exploiting a bug, and thus it was not manipulation. your idea is fine, word choice....not so much

[Zingy]

Well in which case, there was only two possible scenarios.

1. What you are saying is true and Ease technically didn't die before the sub.

2. You are wrong because Chuckle died to Ease's bullet at the same time Ease died to chuckle. Either way it caused a situation in the game that drastically affected the outcome.

I'm not sure what the relevance of #2 is. The server's record already shows that Chuckle died to Ease's bullet before Ease died to Chuckle's bullet. I am referring specifically to the server's record and not the bot's record.

[kthx]

Well in which case, there was only two possible scenarios.

1. What you are saying is true and Ease technically didn't die before the sub.

2. You are wrong because Chuckle died to Ease's bullet at the same time Ease died to chuckle. Either way it caused a situation in the game that drastically affected the outcome.

[Zingy]

Pretty sure a bug is any mistake in the code of a bot in the terms we are using it in, therefore it is a bug, and it was manipulated to win a game.

Something that is due to a delay caused by either lag or because of inherent latency in any form of computer programming is not a bug.

[kthx]

Pretty sure a bug is any mistake in the code of a bot in the terms we are using it in, therefore it is a bug, and it was manipulated to win a game.

[Zingy]

bot bug that was being manipulated

Manipulation requires intent to abuse some kind of "bug." Subbing when someone is about to die isn't illegal and is not a "bug" and therefore it is not "manipulation" ... the wording makes a difference, and I feel that your use of "manipulation" is just an attempt to incite reactions...

I wouldn't call it a bug because it's merely an issue of timing. When it comes to programming and the internet, there are delays in everything that is done. The timing of the bullet hitting Ease was in such a way that in the time the bot went through the subbing routine (milliseconds) to put Ardour in, Ease was still alive, otherwise the sub would not have gone through. The bot determines whether a sub should go through based on whether they are still alive at the time the bot is about to put a new player in, not when the !sub command was actually done.