About Roster Lock + Disbanding Squads

[bloodzombie]

Originally posted by MaGi kOz
[sarcasm]No gerbil. RAnd is right. I mean it's very easy recruiting about 10 (maybe slightly exaggerated) active players to replace the 10 that left in the time that we had (one week). I mean gee, it's like our current squadmates care on who we recruit. I'm sure they wouldn't mind if we recruited Oni Link or something. Like gee, rand knows everything about other squads that he's not in so he knows alot what he's talking about. It's very easy deducting and reasoning a squad's actions from outside the circle.[/sarcasm]

this from the squad that recruited mitch.

[MaGi kOz]

Originally posted by bloodzombie
this from the squad that recruited mitch.

What's that supposed to mean? Mitch is cool. Oni Link is a devil; It says in his name. (For the ignorant. "ONI" is japanese for Devil; Ghost. For more on japanese kanji, see Japanese Classroom) Can't trust anyone like that.

Anyways I'm going to bail out of this argument. Stuff like this isn't worth arguing for. Not fun at all. =(



Nipples4LIfe.

[sTuPiD-gErBiL]

Originally posted by bloodzombie
The league ops didn't do any such thing.. this was written in the rules since the beginning. To change the rules because your guys bailed would be stupid

the league rules that were written at the beginning were not all-encompassing. no rule structure ever is, because there will always be new situations that will arise and cause justifiable rule changes/exemptions/removals. look at modern law.. laws get overturned and changed everyday. look at sports rules.. things get changed every season. look at subspace leagues... players find so many loopholes in rshl/aml/premier and yes, even twl, to warrant constant modification. the whole point of having rules structures are to provide boundaries for existing problems and to adapt and handle new problems fairly.

now back to the topic at hand.... as far as i've been told, there is still discussion amongst league ops on how to handle our possible withdrawal from league. being that this is the first time this incident occurred and that whatever is decided for this situation will become guideline for future similar situations, things are supposedly being handled very carefully by the powers above.

and quite honestly, i've seen this same situation happen in hockeyzone before, and they handled things very fairly without upsetting any balance in the league.

[HellzNo!]

no no no jason, you shut the fuck up. i could care less if you think cripples members are great people, they can stay great people outside of the fucking leagues. maybe it sucks that they cant join any leagues squads, or that they cant recruit more members, but the face remains its no ones fault except the squads. if mroe than half the squad left, wouldnt the other half of the squad realize what was about to happen. sry that your members ditchedout on you(cough jason cough) but if your mad that you cant join any squads now, thats you guys own fault for not leaving before roster lock. Cripples has always been a respectable squad, dont ruin that now, you guys are a disgrace to twlb as it stands, and you should let someone who can at least show up for a fight take a shot. if you guys feel you can still show 5 to the other 2 leageus, then by all means go ahead and stay, but plz drop out of twlb.

[MaGi kOz]

Originally posted by HellzNo!
but if your mad that you cant join any squads now, thats you guys own fault for not leaving before roster lock.

That's messed up! So basically we're punished for being loyal squadmembers?

[Jason]

Originally posted by HellzNo!
no no no jason, you shut the fuck up. i could care less if you think cripples members are great people, they can stay great people outside of the fucking leagues. maybe it sucks that they cant join any leagues squads, or that they cant recruit more members, but the face remains its no ones fault except the squads. if mroe than half the squad left, wouldnt the other half of the squad realize what was about to happen. sry that your members ditchedout on you(cough jason cough) but if your mad that you cant join any squads now, thats you guys own fault for not leaving before roster lock. Cripples has always been a respectable squad, dont ruin that now, you guys are a disgrace to twlb as it stands, and you should let someone who can at least show up for a fight take a shot. if you guys feel you can still show 5 to the other 2 leageus, then by all means go ahead and stay, but plz drop out of twlb.

You, sir, are a cockgoblin. Cripples defined league basing, the very basing that you cherish oh so much. Disgrace my motherfuckin' white ass. Give them a chance to save face rather than shoo them out the door. You know goddamn well if this were to happen to Pallies you'd be begging for the league ops to make an exception. Hell, Pusher would make an exception for you regardless. It royally pisses me off that you can be so callous. I left the squad for christ's sake, and even I have a little compassion.

[Bigwig]

Wouldn't everyone rather we make an exception for a current league squad then bring in another hck-limited into the league?

[Miku19]

As far as I know, War Angels and Burning Rose have been in tw for many times longer than hck...

[Randedl]

Originally posted by MaGi kOz
That's messed up! So basically we're punished for being loyal squadmembers?

the loyalty only goes so far as the squad goes huh? it's a cop-out plan you guys are arguing for. hypothetically, right now, if you guys had the option to join another squad, how many of you would? and if any of you says "I would" then it's your own fault that you didn't do it 3 days ago.

to the ones who say "no, i'd stick with my squad no matter what" then congrats and good on you. don't look for a contingency plan for "in case this squad that i believed in so much so as to stay with it after the roster lock dies". if you can't show to your matches you will get kicked. if you get kicked, keep that loyalty you have and rebuild your squad. you're out of twl for the remainder of the season (the season we are half through already - i don't think cripples was in the position to make the playoffs in any of the three leagues), sure.

okay, so u drop out of twl for a month and a half, use the time to rebuild like you guys are wanting to right now. no you won't get to play twl, which is too bad, but if you can recruit some people, integrate them into your system, own up twd and be ready to hit up the next twl and give yer squadhoppin buddies a little dose of revenge.

rules are rules my friends, just cuz you got fucked over doesn't make them inapplicable. if the same happened to a squad like hck nobody would give a damn, everybody would say good riddance and make jokes out of it. on the other side, if a squad like pallies (to use somebody else's example), or cripples in this case, were in this situation, yes, people would jump on the bandwagon to give them another chance. this double standard is bullshit. the rules are the rules are the rules, don't complain afterwards because they just happen to go against you in a set situation. you didn't see bill clinton trying to make an amendment to allow interns to give presidents head (to give a comical real life comparison), so don't do the same.

to close up this rant, i want to address another issue i've noticed in this thread. . .

they should push it back another week or so, to not make it seem like cripples are an exception that we allow. This also gives squads any final hopes of any rearranging, but also being their last.

Push the roster lock back one week, it's that simple. Don't give special exceptions to one squad, make it a world wide thing.

this stuff just makes me laugh. i don't see any reason why any squad (including cripples, but especially the other 15 in each league) should need an extension. you knew when the deadline was, what more warning do you want. stop wasting people's time with these ideas, you're looking out for yourselves, not the integrity of the trench wars leagues.

[sTuPiD-gErBiL]

well the cripples reputation is irrelevant. any squad, no matter how new or old, who is in this league should be treated equally. as much as i dislike warbird ego squads, i'd still be making this same argument if it were rampage/light/elusive who got screwed over.

so far, the recurring counterpoint is "why didn't you guys just jump teams when you saw everyone else start to leave? it's your own fault for staying on that sinking ship." to answer that, first i'll throw out my initial response of "because some people actually do grasp the concept of loyalty and will support their teams until its dying breath." arguing morality with this crowd will go nowhere and i'd rather save that kind of material for polite talk with troll king because i know he'd at least understand it. instead, here's a simple fact: those cripples that did leave, left AT THE SAME TIME. even if we had wanted to jump ship, there was no time to do so. the point everyone's been missing is that there was no choice to be made. if you were online at the time the exodus occurred, then you were either in or out. if you found out about it later on, like me and a few others, then you were already screwed.

take that into consideration and then tell me if you still feel like being ignorant.

[Epinephrine]

If this pseudo-flaming continues I will be closing the thread.


As for the rule itself, no it wasn't just thought up of and randomly added. Even the exact time of the roster lock was part of lenghty discussion and debate.

Everyone knows the rule was there, it has officially been in the rules since January 6th 2003 when the rules were first posted on this forum. The purpose of this rule is to ensure both fair play and squad stability.

Fair play is defined as squads having stable rosters playing eachother and not having massive a exodus of the "best" players from squads who aren't making the playoffs into the contenders upset the balance and upset the playoffs (and ultimately the long season which squads fight hard for).

Stability is defined as not putting squads in a position where they have to worry their best players will bail out on them and hurt their squad (and thus hurt the long-term stability of the league). Stability is also defined as the fact that we like squads that stay together, and we like squads that stay in league. Because all squad members are bound by the fact that there is a roster lock, there should be an inherent want to keep your squad alive and competitve so that you don't miss out in league.

-Epi

[sTuPiD-gErBiL]

Originally posted by Epinephrine
The purpose of this rule is to ensure both fair play and squad stability.

Fair play is defined as squads having stable rosters playing eachother and not having massive a exodus of the "best" players from squads who aren't making the playoffs into the contenders upset the balance and upset the playoffs (and ultimately the long season which squads fight hard for).

well guess what... it failed. everything you tried to prevent happened despite your efforts. and now instead of punishing the people you were trying to safeguard against, you're going after the people who wanted to play by the rules and not squadjump to a playoff team.

epi, you seem like a smart person and i've known you for a while.. but everything you just posted helps my case more than hurts it. normally, i'd take that as a good thing, but i'm pretty sure it wasn't your intent.

[Mythrandir]

I'm with Gerbil on this. The rule didn't seem to work out as planned.

I suggest for next season to apply the roster lock from Week 1 (or have no lock at all but an eligibility time of 4-5 weeks).
That way people will have to stay loyal to their squad from the start, and won't be able to bail out and join another squad if they realize their squad isn't going to win.



(by the way: does the roster lock apply for TWD squads that get invited at say week 7, but has members that signed up week 6?
Because in that case Cripples could just recruit some members, get #1 in TWBD, drop out of TWLB, and get invited back in with fresh new members)

[wadi]

Sounds like a convenient loophole that should probably be exploited this season.

I'm with Myth on this one, and I've said it before: Roster Lock should have been week 2, no later. I'd have also liked to see 12 TWLB squads, but that's just me.

[bloodzombie]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but wasn't crips having trouble showing up before the lock happened? why is it that now they think they could recruit a few guys who would show up if they were allowed to?

and jason, please stop telling me what I would be doing if it was pallies, if we only had 7 people left, I'd wanna start rebuilding for next season, not dragging the league down and getting pissed because we lose week after week.

I just really don't understand WHY you want to stay in leagues? are you afraid you won't make it back in for next season?