TWLB Finals - WTF decision?

[LF]

i told staff within 3 minutes that bot was going to do that, LF.

I don't know who told what to whoever but I did already acknowledge that the people that needed to know did in fact know the deal well in advance and were simply hoping for things to work out on their own, instead of actually fixing the problem on the spot.


On a side note I want to give props to bwp (the host). Some people may pick on her for being a newbie (and she is, at least to competitive play). She was put in an impossible situation and stayed professional and reacted well under the pressure from the rest of the zone. Plenty of fault to go around but none of it deserves to fall on the host.

[Turban]

i don't think anyone is going to blame bwp, he did a fine job and had no power to make a big decision like that by himself. i'm just not too pleased at how long it took for upperstaff to make a simple call, you shouldn't be twiddling your thumbs for 10 minutes before doing something about the situation. qan, reckful and m_m god knew it was going to happen with 100% certainity, but most likely twl ops and sysops were disagreeing on how to proceed with the situation & this happened. sucks for the zone, that's all. also, cud i fucking add paragraphs already, this hideme.be site is awful and i can't edit posts with my phone. u did a good job, lf. thanks for trying n for your efforts.

[qan]

Just so it's all clear, I botched the clock count in the bot settings -- a few hours before the match was to start I was asked to change the time required to win from 15 to 20 minutes. That's what I did. However, our bots are a certain brand of special (ancient and esoteric, worked on by experienced and amateur programmers alike) ... so while logically you'd assume that the max time for a basing round would be time needed to win * 2, it's actually something that has to be manually set. Fun stuff. My apologies for my role in the first round's problems.

When I was told what was happening, I recommended (knowing nothing of the actual rules) that either the game should be changed to 15 minutes needed to win, but immediately, or that it should be 20 minutes to win, but hosted manually.

Dice was leading at the time. The only way for the match to end with 20 minutes of flagtime for a team was if Dice were to basically shut out Pandora for the rest of the match, making a roughly 20-10 finish. A wait-and-see attitude was adopted, considering this was still a possibility. I didn't agree with this decision, because I knew that the likelihood of this happening was close to 0 ... but it delayed having to make a decision. Only once it was clear Dice was not going to pull the rabbit out of the hat was the problem announced and a decision made. One arena message was sent, and apparently not everyone got the memo. (Some people use lines=0 or lines=1 during matches, too. Getting endlessly squad-PM-spammed is not fun. You can't really have the expectation that a single arena message will be seen by all participants, unfortunately. I think that's one of the reasons that problems necessitating rules changes in order for a match to proceed should result in a replay.)

So then it was decided to just let the clock run to 0, and the person with the most accumulated time at the end would win. After a series of proposed special games, it was decided to just replay the match. This was the right move, but unfortunately made a bit too late, IMO. It would have taken a nerve of steel, and would have gotten so much hate, but once it was clear that nobody could win with 15, the game probably should have been killed. That's easy to say in retrospect, of course; when you have only a few minutes, no, the right decision is not easy to make.


As for the 3rd round, where the bots died ... it's hoped it was a natural happening and not an attack. Pando was going to win in all probability... and yet. And yet. I'm not sure there's any agreement that could be arrived at for a fair replay of that match. A straight replay would be unfair, but a match in which Pandora needs 2 min (or actually a bit less) to win and Dice needs ~9 would also not be fair, as the momentum of the original game would probably not carry over. I suppose it's really just whether or not Dice appeals at this point.

Figured I would give my side of the nightmare, for reference, as I had a part in creating it. I'd like to leave you with a quote from TW's own man of the cloth, Pastor Lizard Fuel. Let us pray:

LF> The only ways to achieve pure sanctity in the eyes of God is to admonish your sins, or win TWLB.


Amen.

[Mythril]

If anything there needs to be a rule that's along the lines of "if a game is close to its conclusion and there's a bot error, players need to play on and let staff decide the best course of action after review." Similar to how the NFL doesn't call every play dead, they let it play out to see what actually was going to happen, regardless of a flag or even turnover. Staff could have reasonably set up a timer and just said play on. The game was over.

There's a reason one squad kept playing and the other squad decided to sit in spawn and spam ????s.

[Dreamwin]

Can we already get over this?

There's no question about these finals not being a fiasco.
However, we we're better in every game. We technically won 3 out of 3. Use the common sense for once and stop cleaving to every possible technical failure that accured. We deserve the title, that's it.

Hell, we even won with dumbwin himself terring 1/3 of twlb finals.

Like Mythril said:
"There's a reason one squad kept playing and the other squad decided to sit in spawn and spam ????s."

One other thing:
Why did all the terriers get weird DC's? Cape, Zizu and me.
That's again 2-1 for dice's advantage.

[Mythril]

Also LF, we'll play TWLD whenever you can field your best lineup. We were forced into playing the LD last night (I won't go into details) despite not having anything close to our best lineup and having key players leave because the game started 3 hours after its scheduled time. We don't have anything close to the depth that Fierce has in wb and our lineup was more than compromised because of it last night. If anything, it's best that the game was postponed for the integrity of TWLD. I don't want to play a shitty Fierce lineup and I didn't want to add a shitty one either.

[Reckful]

The LB finals were a mess all around with almost every possible situation that could go wrong happening. The first round fiasco everyone is bitching about was entirely preventable and a severe oversight by myself and qan when making adjustments for the bots to play out to 20 minutes. The replay round ran smooth with a Victory to Pandora. The 3rd round went smooth for the for 20 minutes or so until dicE basically collapsed on itself without Zizu in forcing maketso? into terrier. The bot crash at 18-11 minutes with Pandora in the lead had them in control of mid base crushing dicE and ready to close out the game. Hence again I awarded them an obvious victory that they earned even through the bullshit that was staff / bot / server problems and that is my final decision on the matter.

[Ephemeral]

Qan,
Understood that the existing ball of code is ugly; but was there an issue that prevented testing the 20 minute time change a day or two before the game played? If so, what can be done so that this doesn't happen again? If not and the change was untested due to 'not bothering', then shame on you guys and lets redouble efforts to test everything before cutting it into production. The zone may used to be able to recover from non-testing 'back in the day' but this kind of stuff can do some real damage to the zone in its current low-population state.
eph

[Rise Against]

The LB finals were a mess all around with almost every possible situation that could go wrong happening. The first round fiasco everyone is bitching about was entirely preventable and a severe oversight by myself and qan when making adjustments for the bots to play out to 20 minutes. The replay round ran smooth with a Victory to Pandora. The 3rd round went smooth for the for 20 minutes or so until dicE basically collapsed on itself without Zizu in forcing maketso? into terrier. The bot crash at 18-11 minutes with Pandora in the lead had them in control of mid base crushing dicE and ready to close out the game. Hence again I awarded them an obvious victory that they earned even through the bullshit that was staff / bot / server problems and that is my final decision on the matter.

When Fierce discussed with you over the bs that we have to replay a round with no advantage considering 3 Pandora's were on 9 and we were winning 35-25 without lag (you can talk to anyone in spec recording the score who confirmed it, 3 people who were not on Fierce/Pandora) .. You told us because of circumstances with the zone we would have to replay the ENTIRE round, even despite you agreeing it was almost a sure win by Fierce.

Now you say that you awarded Pandora the win in TWLB rd 3 because it was an obvious victory (sounds like some personal bias).. You know what you told me about replaying our TWLD round 1? Reckful> Well if you guys were decisively winning the round then you could do it again next time you face them. <---( WITH A MUDAFUCKIN SMILEY FACE ATTACHED, YOU AWFUL PERSON) So my question is: why do we get this attitude and bogus answer from you when the same thing happened to us in our TWLD vs Pandora as what happened in TWLB between dicE and Pandora?


^ Based on the above principle would it not be fair to ask Pandora the same thing? Pandora: If you guys were winning with such ease against dicE when bot decided to fuck up and ruin TWL, why not just do it again and get a legitimate win where no one will doubt you? All I hear is about zidane telling everyone to stfu and give Pandora credit, why not earn it like this? If Fierce is forced to replay TWLD (which clearly benefits Pandora more than anyone else) , Reckful should remain consistent and make all of TWL replayable or atleast TWLB which was complete BOLOGNA. You are using the rule of if something goes wrong with TWL : bots/ lag/ server the results will be scrapped against our legitimate TWLD (I'd say over 90% we would have won) rd 1 WIN to null it, if that's the case.. all of TWL should be replayed. Maybe that will make everyone forget how awful yesterday panned out.

[Rule]

The LB finals were a mess all around with almost every possible situation that could go wrong happening. The first round fiasco everyone is bitching about was entirely preventable and a severe oversight by myself and qan when making adjustments for the bots to play out to 20 minutes. The replay round ran smooth with a Victory to Pandora. The 3rd round went smooth for the for 20 minutes or so until dicE basically collapsed on itself without Zizu in forcing maketso? into terrier. The bot crash at 18-11 minutes with Pandora in the lead had them in control of mid base crushing dicE and ready to close out the game. Hence again I awarded them an obvious victory that they earned even through the bullshit that was staff / bot / server problems and that is my final decision on the matter.

Your job is no fun. No way to come out on top as far as getting everyone to agree with you. That said:

I hope your resigning after TWL as you have shown flawed decision making skills, biases - when your talking about two squads and your supposed to be the the leading neutral third party/decision maker who provides balance and stability to the league, you don't get into depth saying such and such squad was crushing this one, "obvious victory" etc. What Rise Against pointed out in his most recent post shows that you are either: blatantly incompetent, have favorites, are weak willed that you will give in to whoever pushes your button enough, or simply dont give two ***** about running a fair unbiased league. My vote goes to blatantly incompetent.

I would rather see no TWL finals, then the kind that were done yesterday. Btw warning squads like Fierce and saying they have to play next week regardless of what there turnout availability is, is bullshit too. Good thing Myth is classy enough of a cap to want a fair game (zidane would dive in fast for the opportunity to play Fierce minus 3 starters) and will play Fierce when both squads have starters available.

[Summa]

The LB finals were a mess all around with almost every possible situation that could go wrong happening. The first round fiasco everyone is bitching about was entirely preventable and a severe oversight by myself and qan when making adjustments for the bots to play out to 20 minutes. The replay round ran smooth with a Victory to Pandora. The 3rd round went smooth for the for 20 minutes or so until dicE basically collapsed on itself without Zizu in forcing maketso? into terrier. The bot crash at 18-11 minutes with Pandora in the lead had them in control of mid base crushing dicE and ready to close out the game. Hence again I awarded them an obvious victory that they earned even through the bullshit that was staff / bot / server problems and that is my final decision on the matter.

Then fierce won TWLD finals round 1 by this precedent. I mean, the lead for pandora is 24% more in an 18-11 situation. And a 35-25 lead is a 20% lead, those are approximately the same. so the expected outcome should be the same.

Here's what it sounds like to me from this post: you got fed up with dealing with the problems and people bitching, so you made up some bullshit to overrule actual rules so that you didn't have to deal with it anymore. And your decision doesn't particularly mean finality if dice appealed (in regards to vati, official appeals have to be sent to an email, hence we dunno if they did) as according again to the rules it requires multiple op inputs to render judgment. Or is that rule being edited on the fly for convenience too?

[zidane]

some of the most pathetic pandora haters crying so hard atm. The LB was 100% sealed and the whole arena would agree. The ld game, was solidly in Fierce's favor but by no means was the game over. The last score i saw was around 33-26 before the lag got so terrible. This 35-25 nonsense is pure bs, Fierce kept going for kills when the lag was unplayable while pandora was asking what was going on and not even attempting to play the match. There's also the fact that Lasenza could have possibly been using an illegal resolution in the manual LD game.

http://gyazo.com/31dc5ee740dccbd84e926ba65a3d771b

We checked his res right after the LD and that was what he played on.

[Rule]

some of the most pathetic pandora haters crying so hard atm. The LB was 100% sealed and the whole arena would agree. The ld game, was solidly in Fierce's favor but by no means was the game over. The last score i saw was around 33-26 before the lag got so terrible. This 35-25 nonsense is pure bs, Fierce kept going for kills when the lag was unplayable while pandora was asking what was going on and not even attempting to play the match. There's also the fact that Lasenza could have possibly been using an illegal resolution in the manual LD game.

http://gyazo.com/31dc5ee740dccbd84e926ba65a3d771b

We checked his res right after the LD and that was what he played on.

Zidanes such a useless pos of a cap LOL. Always trying to cheat and whine his way to a decision.

[Rise Against]

Everyone in the TWLD arena was angry with the decision saying, "wtf? Fierce obviously had that win", multiple people counted it at 35-25 before lag started I don't give a fuck about what you think the score was you biased awful person! (Reckful? is that you?), and then possibly 39-27 when fights kept going after lag, we probably got 40 actually seeing as beam went 6-12.. Either way, complete horse shit to call it off without giving us at least an advantage.. and lag or not, we were playing in lag just as you were.. we didn't have an advantage, we were in the same boat, same lag.. so don't go bitching zidane saying it wasn't fair

Also: Why was Pandora promised if TWLB time was extended that they could postpone their TWLD game? Staff (Reckful) did not communicate with Fierce, wasting many hours of our precious time waiting for the game to happen.. we were left in the dark, all because we don't play LoL with Reckful like Pandora does.

[Hulk]

sounds like LB l0l