Iraqis fucking love us

[Cops]

When you get a second you should take a look at this..http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews...name_page.html

How many more people must die in the name of democracy?

[Bob (SRB)]

hehe. enforcer, its not like I was expecting to change your views on anything. I was expecting you to do exactly what you did. So I found your response actually rather funny. I knew that you were gonna go through my whole post, misread basically everything, then make your senseless corrections in red. Maybe you should stop repeating yourself because you are wrong. You might as well say Bush is jesus, because everyone knows you are wrong and your feeble attempts at glorifying Bush's idiocy aren't convincing anyone.

In this case, the only sheep here is you. You blindy follow Bush's insane policies, despite the rest of the world telling you that you're wrong. And I thought it was PERFECT that you added in that remark about Germany, it just further proved how stupid you are. The German citizens were all blindly following Hitler, the evil facist dictator. Basically the rest of the world was against Germany and it's actions, but Germany didn't stop because the powerful country supported it's insane leader. And guess what happened, WORLD WAR 2! So now we sit here, All of the world is against America, but that insane leader Bush still has his moron rightwing supporters. I WONDER WHAT COULD HAPPEN NEXT.

And about you attempting to correct what I said about Iraq (even though I said don't bother). We could get into this whole argument about how it was wrong to invade Iraq, how there were really no weapons, how thousands of citizens were killed, and how America wasn't trying to liberate Iraqis at all, they were just going for the oil. But then we'd just be creating an everlasting loop wouldn't we? I'd say what everyone (except for some Americans) knows as the truth, you (playing the role of the undereducated, patriotic American idiot) would use some baseless propaghanda crap that has been fed to you directly from the Bush administration, and so on. So I'm not going to get into all that now.

And no, I'm not saying that you should sit back and let terrorists bomb you and such. I think when you do get bombed you should do all you can to save the citizens and hope the damage is minimal. The point is, you've already gotten yourselves in too deep, and you better expect repercutions. You've only been making it worse by invading Iraq. I also hope some of the idiots (like you) will realize that you are looking at it the wrong way. Kind of like a neverending spiral that just gets worse and worse. America is hated, terrorists attack, America goes and hostilely takes over a country that is believed to have terrorists, terrorists hate America more for what they have done, terrorists attack again, and so on. Why don't the terrorists come here and attack Canada, or maybe all those democratic socialist countries in Europe? Maybe they'll realize that having someone like Bush in office is only making it worse for them. There are reasons why terrorists target America, and why America is generally disliked. Maybe if the US went and corrected all that (doing stuff like not acting like the police of the world, having more socialist policies, focussing more on people not companies and wealth, etc), they would be less hated.

Lastly, I just have to tell you how wrong your reasoning is about using 9/11 as an excuse to take over Iraq. First off, as numerous people have already stated in this thread (you haven't listened to them yet, hopefully you will listen to me) Iraq had completely nothing to do with those attacks. Countries themselves don't have much to do with terrorism if you haven't noticed yet. The fact is, most of the terrorism directed towards America has been from Muslim extremists. Iraq certainly isn't the only country that has muslim extremists, so invading that mainly muslim country and killing their citizens is not going to make Muslim extremists any happier. When America retaliated after 911 and sent troops into Afghanistan, that was a good move. Invading a completely unassociated country was not. Now you can say that they also invaded Iraq for other reasons, but that does not matter now, because you used the invasion of Iraq as retaliation for terrorist bombings. But if you go back on that statement and admit you are wrong, then I will gladly retract my statements on the issue here, and we'll be done on that subject.

god this took a long time. Hope I didn't miss anything.

[THE ENFORCER]

And no, I'm not saying that you should sit back and let terrorists bomb you and such. I think when you do get bombed you should do all you can to save the citizens and hope the damage is minimal. The point is, you've already gotten yourselves in too deep, and you better expect repercutions. You've only been making it worse by invading Iraq. I also hope some of the idiots (like you) will realize that you are looking at it the wrong way. Kind of like a neverending spiral that just gets worse and worse. America is hated, terrorists attack, America goes and hostilely takes over a country that is believed to have terrorists, terrorists hate America more for what they have done, terrorists attack again, and so on. Why don't the terrorists come here and attack Canada, or maybe all those democratic socialist countries in Europe? Maybe they'll realize that having someone like Bush in office is only making it worse for them. There are reasons why terrorists target America, and why America is generally disliked. Maybe if the US went and corrected all that (doing stuff like not acting like the police of the world, having more socialist policies, focussing more on people not companies and wealth, etc), they would be less hated.

This is just out of curoisty and you make a reasonable argument here so i will respond, you attack me for supporting active roles in stopping terrorism and when i critcize you for saying that we should take a passive standpoint you deny it so if you dont want to take an active role (because you think it will cause a spiral) nor dont want to take a passive role what is your point of view? active or passive choose one please. When i say we must take an active role we should increase security for US and attack the heart of terrorism war will be needed, regime changes will be needed but its effective. If you dont want war or regime changes how do you propose to stop terrorism?


The reason why terrorist attack USA and not Canada is because USA is the richest nation which terrorist resent and also USA is the #1 superpower of the free world, USA represents democracy for all democractic nations USA is the symbol for democracy and terrorist see that on its own as a threat. If you say USA should take a passive role and not do anything like Canada do you think terrorist will stop attacking?

please answer these questions directly im very curious for your response and your response only.

Edit:wait a minute i think ive figured this out, you feel that there is only grounds to invade a country if they pose a direct terrorist threat to USA right? however because its impossible to prove what a person will do in the future you can only base it upon the present or maybe even the past so thats why you approve of attacking afghastan because they were responsible for 9/11 so if Iraqis with the approval of Saddam attacked USA killing another 3000 citizens then you would only approve of invading Iraq am i right here?

[Subjugation]

PS What the f**k do you think torture is, seriously, it seems many of yopu don't even know what it is and think it is like being grounded or something.

you can argue about the sematics of torture all you want. regardless, what they did violated the geneva conventions, and are even potentially war crimes, depending on what the investigation reveals.

[Subjugation]

Agree i think i might move to my other forums, clearly people here lack maturity and intelligence.

i thought you were leaving.

[Subjugation]

You should remember.. he's an Australian.... Telcat is in Australia... they might know each other.. hell.. they might be friends... or.. worst of all... Together.. they might make babies. Super Annoying Babies.

wow, that was classic.

[lunch3]

Short summary of my views:

Afghanistan: They didn't turn over Bin Laden so we invaded to take him by force. Most like the fact the Taliban is gone but hate US for multitude of reasons nonetheless. Our slow bueracy in reconstructing is causing more anti-American feelings.

Iraq: We, and the rest of the world at the time, believed that Saddam probably had WMD and even if he didn't everyone knew he used them once on his own people, killed a Kurdish village of 2,000 people, and that he would continue to look and develop these weapons and would likely use them or at least blackmail the world with them. He was also more brutal and dictatorial then most other country leaderships. Iraq was an easy target, and also one of the only ME countries that other ME countries wouldn't mind the US invading. And President Bush honestly believes that creating democracy in ME would get rid of terrorism in long run.

North Korea: Mostly any country would like to see Kim Jong, spelled that right?, die or undergo some regime change. Only problem is that war with them would be a lot more costly, plus China is friendly with North Korea. He seems to be one of the very worst dictators where people are brainwashed since kindergarden, starved, killed, and tortured. When and if we go to war, South Korea's capital will burn in a wall of flames, as has been threatened to happen by NK's leadership. They have like 200 huge guns (the ones the size of trucks) aimed at that city, so you can say goodbye to it at start of any war. Both Bush and Kerry will try to play a game of chess with them and hope the regime falls by itself. Don't think NK will sell terrorists A-bombs, because to do so would mean the invasion of their country.

Presidential Election: I agree with Bush's general agendas and means, just think he is stupid and we should elect Kerry now because now is the time to get back into the international team. Mainly what Bush did was good, but we shouldn't invade any other country AND the world hates Bush. Kerry will finish job in Iraq, seems mostly motivated to ridding ourselves of oil dependancy and in helping with domestic economy. Plus this whole stance from Bush on gay marriage and anti-abortion seems wrong and religiously snobbish. So after reconstruction ME fixes its own problems, but if we are attacked on the scale of 9/11 or greater probably expect more invasions, and on a grander scale. If that happens expect something on the scale of WW3 which will prove costly and long but would fix things in the end, say 5 years down the line after the major fighting has finnished.

Israel: .....don't know what to do there. We cant just ask how many millions of Jews to leave Israel. Some compromise would work if only terrorists werent anti-semetic and didnt want all Jews to be exterminated from ME. Think most of anti-semitism stems from how Jews dress, all black suits and such. But Muslims seem to be just as religiously strict about garments too. Maybe if the world outlaws religion there wouldn't be so many people angry at each other because of religious culture, preach, and beliefs.

[Bioture]

Short summary of my views:
Israel: .....don't know what to do there. We cant just ask how many millions of Jews to leave Israel. Some compromise would work if only terrorists werent anti-semetic and didnt want all Jews to be exterminated from ME. Think most of anti-semitism stems from how Jews dress, all black suits and such. But Muslims seem to be just as religiously strict about garments too. Maybe if the world outlaws religion there wouldn't be so many people angry at each other because of religious culture, preach, and beliefs.

After reading http://100prophecies.org/ I think its kinda freaky that some of the shit in the bible is actually true... especially the recently fulfilled ones and the end time prophecies that depict biological warfare (#6). And if you think about it, Jerusalem is the ONLY city that is governed by the UN... making it significant to the world.

[THE ENFORCER]

There are two ways the messiah will come (as stated in the Torah)
1. is if everyone does good deeds and the world becomes spiritually ready for the Messiah

2. will be similar to pain in child birth, the good will be percieved as bad the bad will be perceived as good, much war and violence, younger generation will rebel agianst the older generation and leave thier faith, other things i cant remember.

Note to lunch3 religously muslims and Jews have alot in common.

[Azhran]

THE ENFORCER,

you're wrong.

Cheers,
Azhran

[TajaUk]

I looked over this thread again this morning and came to the conclusion its pointless, we all agree apart from "The Enforcer" who refuses to actually comprehend any points people bring up and always comes back to the name calling and labelling of people who don't 100% agree with him.

It's also interesting that he uses nazi, 9/11 and other un-releated events in history as weapons in his arguement when they are totally irrelevent.

How on earth can you say "do you want another 9/11, if we dont support the iraq invasion etc etc".....

I am not joking here when I say this but one of my learning disability students i teach could see the flaw in your logic, i would personally retreat now from this thread and sack it off, knowing when your beats a good thing.

The most dangerous people in this world are those that believe they are smarter than they actually are.

[THE ENFORCER]

My issues are very complex ofcourse someone with a learning disability wouldnt understand them. If you really want to learn please tell me the points you dont understand and i will try to explain them further theres no point in saying well i dont understand them so they are stupid because i admit these issues are complex and im willing to take an extra minute or so explain them fully ive given very brief arguments and i could easliy go into it further. Dont reject an idea because you dont understand them ask for further infomation until you understand it and then make a judgment. So which points dont you understand?

[Azhran]

You should reread his post

[THE ENFORCER]

Look i really dont care anymore im only interest in those people who want to understand the otherside if people dont understand my logic and would like for me to extend on it then im more than happy to do it but im not willing to discuss this topic any further if people are unwilling to learn, appreciate and understand the otherside's point of view. I understand and appreciate your side's argument. But all im saying is that there is equally justifiable and fair attitude towards Iraq which you people seem to have over looked which you shouldnt when making a fully informed desicion on the topic and if people want to understand that side im more than happy to elaborate. Im sorry if i came off mean and rude in my previous posts and if you guys got offended but i do get defensive when people insult me but i dont intend to insult or offend anyone.

[Azhran]

I understand and appreciate your side's argument.

if you dont support US intervention then you are just welcoming terrorist into your country.

you idealistic left wingers were not realistic and pretty much fools

I GET IT NOW! YOU WERE APPRECIATING THEIR SIDE'S ARGUMENTS!!