[MAFIA] AWOOOOOOOOO!!!!

[Voth]

Had this post written up before I for called into a meeting... Apologies if it's not updated to address anything that's been written since my most recent post. Haven't read yet.

@voth
I don't think a vendetta is the reason she voted you. At least I hope not because that would be ridiculous, and as anti-town as they come.

And the whole PMing business with Exalt is odd considering we are not supposed to be PMing. That's how I understood ixt's note in the OP.

Missa needs to speak before I change my vote.
And for what it's worth I'm glad it's Rodney now not beast.

Because, reasons:

field, just saw that part about it not being updated since your most recent post. That does explain some of what I asked.

[the_paul]

Second line: I agree. I mentioned the "no PMing rule" a while back as well.

I feel like I'm going to regret chiming back in, but in my wall of text the scenarios for this "intel" are one of four: 1. The game setup is broken and Missa as a witch has intel she shouldn't, 2. It's a lie to strengthen self preservation, 3. She is mafia with access to night 1 results, 4. Missa and someone else (presumably) with an investigative role have both broken the no PM rule, which is actually explicitly stated in the rules as a change to this game, and have cheated.

Unless I'm missing something, these are the only options

[Voth]

I feel like I'm going to regret chiming back in, but in my wall of text the scenarios for this "intel" are one of four: 1. The game setup is broken and Missa as a witch has intel she shouldn't, 2. It's a lie to strengthen self preservation, 3. She is mafia with access to night 1 results, 4. Missa and someone else (presumably) with an investigative role have both broken the no PM rule, which is actually explicitly stated in the rules as a change to this game, and have cheated.

Unless I'm missing something, these are the only options

I would like to add #5:

5. Missa is sick and tired of me verbally (textually?) molesting her game after game, and there is a vendetta here. She can't even begin to be impartial.

I think it's #5, but I would like to address the other 4 you mentioned:

1. I think that this game is shaky as fuck and I'm not happy with it, but I can't imagine that the witch role can get any more powerful than it already is.

2. Could be, but why? When I flip town, it casts shade on her.

3. Could be, but that would be a huge play and I doubt it would end up in a scum win.

4. Why would any person with a presumed investigative role PM Missa and roleclaim to her with results from their investigation prior to her roleclaim? Her roleclaim and her insistence that she has evidence incriminating me are in the same post, as I quoted before. Before that roleclaim, she was under intense scrutiny, so why would a town cop or tracker or anything do that? It is literally 99.9% impossible.

[WillBy]

I'm still here and reading along, just very hard to find time to post today. Couple things I'd like to address:

yes, I've seen self protecting bodyguards. It's essentially what Voths role was in my game, which I find more suspicious than the role itself. Then again, I had fis's fake claim from my game in hers (where I was allowed to self protect). Not guaranteeing thats what ixt made it, but worth mentioning.

Re: Missa vs Voth, I'm sketched out by the PMing. I thought Ixt was clear on that, no pming. Thanks Exalt for at least not playing along. I think paul and Voth have talked it to death, so I wont elaborate there.

it was a while ago but I read something field said about not answering questions because it helps the wolves. While that's true, in a non-pming game the wolves benefits more from missa being the only one with information (if there is any).

[Undercut]

Are you planning on adding anything to this conversation? Are you planning on voting? You show up to post a few sentences without any real commitment to anything. It's getting old. How are you leaning with this lynch vote? Do you have any thoughts on Missa's reluctance/refusal to release any information on the alleged incriminating evidence she has against me, even though no one is asking for names and multiple people are asking?

I honestly don't believe your role claim at this point, but I'm not sure I feel comfortable putting a vote on you just in case I'm wrong. I'm also failing to see how Missa could have any information on you unless her role is just extremely broken and she was someone able to gain access to even more information than just who was attacked last night.

Vote: Rodney

I feel pretty comfortable with this vote because nothing I've read from him has really give me a reason to trust him.

[Undercut]

As far as self-protecting bodyguards go, I've been able to protect myself on this forum as a doctor as well as being able to busdrive myself. It doesn't exactly strike me as odd in a game like this, as well as the fact that ixt is hosting so who knows what kind of weird twists and rules he put in as we haven't played a game with him as host yet.

[the_paul]

I would like to add #5:

5. Missa is sick and tired of me verbally (textually?) molesting her game after game, and there is a vendetta here. She can't even begin to be impartial.

I think it's #5, but I would like to address the other 4 you mentioned:

1. I think that this game is shaky as fuck and I'm not happy with it, but I can't imagine that the witch role can get any more powerful than it already is.

2. Could be, but why? When I flip town, it casts shade on her.

3. Could be, but that would be a huge play and I doubt it would end up in a scum win.

4. Why would any person with a presumed investigative role PM Missa and roleclaim to her with results from their investigation prior to her roleclaim? Her roleclaim and her insistence that she has evidence incriminating me are in the same post, as I quoted before. Before that roleclaim, she was under intense scrutiny, so why would a town cop or tracker or anything do that? It is literally 99.9% impossible.

Let me play Devil's advocate and offer some potential explanations, and then get called scum afterwards. Sounds like a good time.

1. If this is true, it's out of our hands, so I'm not going to devote much effort to this

2. Unless we get an answer beforehand, if you flip town Missa can come out and say that there was no intel and her feelings towards you were based on a hunch. After all, she didn't actually specifically say that the extra intel is on you, although it's so heavily implied I can't really think of another explanation for the statement. She can also say that Exalt at one point said he had something on you, and try to use him as a shield.

3. Probably not, but it would probably be worth it to mafia if the follow are met: Missa is lying about being witch, you are not lying about bodyguard, and the real witch comes out and counter claims. If I were mafia, I'd probably make that trade tbh

4. If I had to put myself in the situation, Missa would initiate the conversation with the person she allegedly saved, because she would trust that person isn't mafia (obviously). That person then says thanks, I'm the seer, and I got a guilty result on voth, since that investigative role would trust Missa because there's no way she would have been able to know about the specific target and it explains the no night kill. For the record, like you said, I find this option to be unlikely, but not impossible.

Your #5 is basically in line with her lying, for whatever reason. You're not incorrect that the motive could be different, but to me it's all the same

[Voth]

I'm still here and reading along, just very hard to find time to post today. Couple things I'd like to address:

yes, I've seen self protecting bodyguards. It's essentially what Voths role was in my game, which I find more suspicious than the role itself. Then again, I had fis's fake claim from my game in hers (where I was allowed to self protect). Not guaranteeing thats what ixt made it, but worth mentioning.

Re: Missa vs Voth, I'm sketched out by the PMing. I thought Ixt was clear on that, no pming. Thanks Exalt for at least not playing along. I think paul and Voth have talked it to death, so I wont elaborate there.

it was a while ago but I read something field said about not answering questions because it helps the wolves. While that's true, in a non-pming game the wolves benefits more from missa being the only one with information (if there is any).

Willby, while I appreciate you believing me to an extent, I'm a little concerned that you're too eager to associate yourself with me right now. You've been called into question by more than one person (including myself) for playing a different style this game and your sudden drop off in activity.

[Voth]

Let me play Devil's advocate and offer some potential explanations, and then get called scum afterwards. Sounds like a good time.

1. If this is true, it's out of our hands, so I'm not going to devote much effort to this

2. Unless we get an answer beforehand, if you flip town Missa can come out and say that there was no intel and her feelings towards you were based on a hunch. After all, she didn't actually specifically say that the extra intel is on you, although it's so heavily implied I can't really think of another explanation for the statement. She can also say that Exalt at one point said he had something on you, and try to use him as a shield.

3. Probably not, but it would probably be worth it to mafia if the follow are met: Missa is lying about being witch, you are not lying about bodyguard, and the real witch comes out and counter claims. If I were mafia, I'd probably make that trade tbh

4. If I had to put myself in the situation, Missa would initiate the conversation with the person she allegedly saved, because she would trust that person isn't mafia (obviously). That person then says thanks, I'm the seer, and I got a guilty result on voth, since that investigative role would trust Missa because there's no way she would have been able to know about the specific target and it explains the no night kill. For the record, like you said, I find this option to be unlikely, but not impossible.

Your #5 is basically in line with her lying, for whatever reason. You're not incorrect that the motive could be different, but to me it's all the same

Adding to #4, as it is the only one that I see anything to add to at the moment:

That would mean that Exalt is the scum you're speaking of, correct? AKA, scum Exalt was targeted by his own scum team, Missa saved him, and Missa initiates conversation with Exalt, assuming that the scum team would not sacrifice Exalt? Now Exalt is in deep cover with Missa and he could allegedly lie to her about his fake investigation and take out whoever he wishes?

This is not me implying that this scenario is true, just trying to make sure I understand Paul's scenario--before you all jump on this.

[the_paul]

Theoretically it is possible, as Exalt even mentioned that he had been PMed. Let me make this as clear as I possibly can. I am not accusing Exalt of cheating. I offered a hypothetical that is a POSSIBILITY while playing Devil?s Advocate. I am not accusing, pointing fingers, or anything like that. I am offering all POSSIBLE scenarios, however unlikely they are, and have no knowledge of what has or has not happened. I AM NOT ACCUSING ANYBODY OF ANYTHING

[the_paul]

Adding to #4, as it is the only one that I see anything to add to at the moment:

That would mean that Exalt is the scum you're speaking of, correct? AKA, scum Exalt was targeted by his own scum team, Missa saved him, and Missa initiates conversation with Exalt, assuming that the scum team would not sacrifice Exalt? Now Exalt is in deep cover with Missa and he could allegedly lie to her about his fake investigation and take out whoever he wishes?

This is not me implying that this scenario is true, just trying to make sure I understand Paul's scenario--before you all jump on this.

Oh I misread that last part. No that?s not what I mean. For this scenario to work you would have to be scum, Exalt would have to be the seer, and Missa would have to be the witch. Exalt investigates you, gets guilty, Missa saves Exalt and lets him know, which is where he shares his results with her because he trusts her. The odds of this being what happened are basically 0%, like I said I?m just throwing out all possible scenarios, however unlikely. I hope I?ve made it very clear that I?m not accusing anybody or anything because I don?t know shit

[WillBy]

Theoretically it is possible, as Exalt even mentioned that he had been PMed. Let me make this as clear as I possibly can. I am not accusing Exalt of cheating. I offered a hypothetical that is a POSSIBILITY while playing Devil?s Advocate. I am not accusing, pointing fingers, or anything like that. I am offering all POSSIBLE scenarios, however unlikely they are, and have no knowledge of what has or has not happened. I AM NOT ACCUSING ANYBODY OF ANYTHING

Did your lawyer sign off on that?

[RoDNeY]

Let me throw this back out here since Voth and The_Paul are trying to hide it in the thread with their pages of back and forth useless banter that is doing nothing productive

VOTH IS 100% LYING ABOUT HIS ROLECLAIM

Lynch Voth today and we lynch scum

[Voth]

Oh I misread that last part. No that?s not what I mean. For this scenario to work you would have to be scum, Exalt would have to be the seer, and Missa would have to be the witch. Exalt investigates you, gets guilty, Missa saves Exalt and lets him know, which is where he shares his results with her because he trusts her. The odds of this being what happened are basically 0%, like I said I?m just throwing out all possible scenarios, however unlikely. I hope I?ve made it very clear that I?m not accusing anybody or anything because I don?t know shit

Oh, I see. In fairness, the scenario I laid out is theoretically possible as well. But between the one you said and the one I said, I find it a less than 1% chance for either scenario to be true, because I do believe Exalt is passionate about his principles with the PMing in mafia games.

[WillBy]

Oh I misread that last part. No that?s not what I mean. For this scenario to work you would have to be scum, Exalt would have to be the seer, and Missa would have to be the witch. Exalt investigates you, gets guilty, Missa saves Exalt and lets him know, which is where he shares his results with her because he trusts her. The odds of this being what happened are basically 0%, like I said I?m just throwing out all possible scenarios, however unlikely. I hope I?ve made it very clear that I?m not accusing anybody or anything because I don?t know shit

With how hard hes been trailing against pming in fields post-game, i strongly doubt he did anything like that. So far the only roles we have are missa and Voth. As neither are counterclaimed, I'm inclined to believe them. Exalt is also semi confirmed, though we dont have a role from him yet