TW Mafia 2020: TIGER KING - Murder, Mayhem, Madness

[Jessup]

Sorry jess it was more targeted towards the ones that have got 13 posts on their whole forum account. I know you read at least some of mine

I'm just tired now, tired of having to defend myself for days upon nights upon days. Please tell me, and this open to all, what you would have done differently in my situation when Voth announced he was the town jailkeeper. This seems to be the only action I'm getting called out on, out of the whole game.

oh umm thats a tough call honestly. I'd def had gone hard vocally on voth the day he said that and then probably counterclaimed if he was not having a train that seemed to stick on him. It was early and I'd hope a doctor could protect me as its such an important role.

Holding off like you did though is NOT a bad play either. You were every other day jailer so.. its a tough call honestly..

[Jessup]

of course if u are a mafia jailer well :P different totally.. its best to know who to jail before claiming but counter claims when you peg a liar are a THING and often the right choice .

[Jessup]

kass if you are a real jailer for town.. you will very well make us win in M_Leo is a real doc who can protect you tonight. This is another reason why I want to lynch PF.. Killing roles are dangerous. she could kill you.. then I suspect one othe mafia can kill too.

I could be totally off which is hilarious too but.. I'm sticking and going with how I fell and what I've said since PF's claim

[Kassius]

I got hung up on PFs post about not counter claiming it, hopefully PF remembers and repost. Oh well, mistakes are opportunities and all that.

[Jessup]

lol probably best to have this convo after the game.. I cant tell if you are playing right now or we having a real convo hahah but kass ur a good player.. this game is INSANELY hard halp made. I've second guessed myself the ENTIRE game. It is hard having ZERO protections and ZERO abilities.. Day 1 was super fun tho lol fake claiming and trying to stir the pot to draw out info.. so funny I pegged kthx too ahahah

[PartyFalcon]

Victory Conditions (9~12 Players)

The Cult Team wins if every Mafia Team member (i.e. all Mafiosos + Mafia assistant that made a rendezvous with the Mafiosos) is dead and the total number of Cult Team votes > the total number of Citizen Team votes.

Do you guys not get cult is a threat to mafia as well? WTF is going on. I know I'm sleep deprived but I'm not that far gone. Cult is a threat to mafia and town. This is why I refuse to believe with all out roles on the green tea PF is a member of it. NO FKIN WAY!!

Jessup (and everyone since many here are relatively new) FYI this info is when there’s a cult with no mafia (the game ends because every day cult would vote to kill a townie and every night cult could recruit a townie so there’s no point drawing it out since town can’t win).

Lylo works differently when people have night kills, as an illustration of the principle take this hypothetical:

Day X
-1 cult recruiter and 4 cultists: 5 cult votes
-1 town vigi and 1 Other Townie: 2 town votes
-2 mafioso: 2 mafia votes
Day X cult has more than half the votes and lynches Other Townie 5-4.
Night X mafioso 1 kills the cult recruiter and town vigi kills a cultist.

Day X+1
-3 cultists: 3 cult votes
-1 town vigi: 1 town vote
-2 mafioso: 2 mafia votes
Day X+1 has potential for tied votes because cultists no longer comprise majority
Night X+1 mafioso kills another cultist, vigi kills another cultist (more likely mafia kills the vigi but if the vigi managed not to claim yet maybe not)

Day X+2
-1 cultist
-1 town vigi
-2 mafioso
At this point mafia wins because they tie the votes and night kill the vigi, since there’s 2 mafioso vigi can’t get them both.

Again, this is why we need to plan—this game is complicated and we as townies don’t know what we’re up against while whoever is mafia knows now what they’re up against. My proposal is we try to get as much information as possible today, and I really really think we need to hear from m_leonard about who he’s been visiting every night. Until hearing from him i think he’s the best lynch—i think it’s possible he is the townie doctor in which case I am hopeful that once he speaks up and engages he might be able to help us piece together a fuller picture of night actions to date and make a plan for vetting his doctor claim and/or another player’s role claim overnight so that even if we mislynch today town is in a position to win—I don’t think we’re at lylo unless you lynch me, if you lynch me town still has a shot against 1 mafioso (lynch them tomorrow) but if you lynch me and there are 2 remaining mafioso, then we go into the night with 3 town 2 mafioso and come out with 2 town 2 mafioso (if they chose their target right), then mafia in all likelihood wins at day break tomorrow (would tie lynch and night kill/lynch to victory). The risk to town of a town mislynch on me should give every town-aligned player significant pause right now (even if you don’t believe me, please at least consider what I’m saying if you are town).

Once we have all players at the table I think we can better explore our options, but until then I don’t see a way where I think someone other than m_leonard is the best lynch; he has literally not contributed anything to convince us that he’s town. Yes he voted for Voth day 2 (BUT was arguing strongly against killing willby), yes he voted for kthx day 3 (BUT was throwing shade that I was scummy for trying to get vehicle lynched) and then as soon as kthx flipped he posted something like “wow see! I knew it!” Which sounds to me more like a surprised scum defending their old vote that looked bad at the time than a townie who woke up to find a dead watcher and dead cult recruiter. The more I reflect the more I think m_leonard is scum, possibly the last one (but perhaps not).

[PartyFalcon]

Lol apparently I wasn't reading well and missed poopcat just outed Kassius your Mafia Scum Strongmans Fake Role Claim as odd night jailer.

That said M_Leo can you finally claim. I honestly think at this stage full town claims are the best option for town to win this.

I'd like you to claim too party falcon.

The fact we had a namecop who was sdrawkcab and every role has pretty well fit into flavor.. all the evidence is pinning kassius down really badly. Kass is by far the best vote today l.. by a long shot.
Kass withheld info from town when Voth fakeclaimed jailor. That was a good time to role reveal but he didn't. It wound up killing backwards/sdrawkcab as a result.

Also think about this.. Kthx was ascetic cult recruiter meaning his name would be the only one NEVER revealed. Ascetic fits his role so perfect too being that odd mystic crap Doc Antle was into. Backwards would have always failed targeting kthx to get his name. Flavor is sooo legit in this game and for us to pardon kass with that Allen Glover name claim would be foolish alone. Plus he is caught putting trains on me, m_leo and being really scummy in general.

Vote Kassius

Kassius
FYI it was Jessup, NOT ME who said you should have counterclaimed Voth.

[Kassius]

No, that's the post I'm referring to, there was one from D2. I'll see if I can dig it up.

[Kassius]

Post 965 , PF.

I hear you brother, but i don’t know that it’s necessary for anyone to counterclaim off of voth’s jailer claim—I’d recommend not doing so if anyone reading this IS a townie jailer

[Jessup]

I'm personally well aware cult majority wins PF. We shouldn't have a single cult alive though by my thinking this game now you took out the cult leaders. Mafia depending on the mod preference in the setup is an enemy of scum just like it is for town. Especially when it is unknown the flavor of a cult recruiter and how it effects its recruits( do they keep their role actions or do the become vanilla cult or if the leader dies will one replace. ect ect ect. Inquisitor was a huge threat to mafia and town this game. Cult recruiter kthx was too. I'm not sure what your point is ultimately here. I guess I quickly copy and pasted a cult vs mafia game stat but my point was mafia is also an enemy of cult in this game and scum killing mafia would be embraced by scum the same as killing cult is embraced by town . The cult threat both scum and town faced this game was pretty extreme. We are all lucky.. now it shud be scum A Scum B and Town all trying to win.. well thats what I believe.. GL

[Jessup]

Kassius
FYI it was Jessup, NOT ME who said you should have counterclaimed Voth.

To be clear I said I would have personally and it could be a lead kass was scum that she didnt. I also have told kass that it was kass' decision ultimately and being a jailer late game and revealing delayed like this has its benefits too. Stop being scummy PF. This was old info and I am confirmed town and YOU ARE NOT!

[PartyFalcon]

Post 965 , PF.

Yes. I felt that way then and I feel that way now, especially considering at that point I was submitting (or had submitted? Idk it was contemporaneous) my NK on Voth. That post was also my way of telling sdrawkcab that I had seen his hidden message about vehicles name (in which he suggested a townie jailer should counterclaim so we’d know what to do with Voth the next day).

[PartyFalcon]

Alright alright this may not be the time for me to claim but this potential infighting is more of a distraction than its worth and hopefully my claim isn’t too much of a distraction:

I am A Tiger. I am the town strong-willed strongman vigilante. Please see my first post of the game, where I quoted Jessup’s gif of a tiger and said “A Tiger!” (Cuz that’s me). Day 1 was a fuck off day for me because I was trying to lay as low as possible for as long as possible because I don’t have night protection and didn’t want to draw a night kill (or protection away from a PR). I abstained night one BECAUSE IM TOWN. VIGILANTES SHOULD NOT ATTACK N1.

Day 2 we have info that both Voth and willby visited dead exalt. I thought gee well exalt suspected both of them, and I too think both of them are being weird! So I voted for voth and made very clear that I thought both willby and Voth were equally good lynches based on the info we had, but I stuck with Voth partly I think because I didn’t believe there’d be another strongman (so far it was only D2 though so I didn’t know the extent of role madness yet) but I think moreso because his playing was just SO different (so meticulous and relatively logical) I honestly believed he was a mafioso (I kept screaming this at him while he protested that everyone was saying he’s third party lol but maybe I should go back to see who WAS saying that...mafiosos?).

Then willby flipped and i was like ok dopest dopesauce, well we’re going to need to do something about Voth, and it sure seems like we’re going to waste all day on him tomorrow, and the consensus in the night thread was him or kthx, and at that point I didn’t understand the kthx hubbub yet so I locked that bad boi in and I tiger ate the fucking shit out of that man (Voth). I was scared I was wrong, but he flipped inquisitor so I felt good about that.

Somewhat contemporaneously I see the post from ma bro sdrawkcab and I had been planning on laying low that day for the same reason I had been trying to before (bc vigilantes are most useful late game) but I really honestly was like oh fuck we have to do something about this vehicle scum shit bc sdrawkcab was our name cop and probably died for saying that shit. Ya it was a cryptic message but a surprising number of players in here know/use that. For example, m_leonhard has roleclaimed already using that (why I’ve only badgered him for his name), and poopcat has referenced some of mine that she saw (I left one before killing Voth, talking about how I thought he needed to die, with the first four capital letters being VIGI, another before kthx’s about how I thought kthx was iffy, again with first four capitals VIGI).

so yeah, I did a deep dive analysis on vehicle and exalt and willby and came to the conclusion that vehicle was a mafioso. Normally I would only have gotten in the spotlight to prosecute a mafioso like that if I was a vanilla townie (since I knew if I was right i could take serious heat) but given how strong my role is and how many town power roles were flipping I knew I needed to to be diligent in scum-hunting and couldn’t just assume others were doing it for me (especially since my role PM also mentions cult - part of being strong-willed; this meant I was sure I wanted to keep the game moving with as many accurate scum kills as quickly as possible). We got him and i was right and that was dope.

But then it was the night (3) and I still felt so conflicted about kthx because I didn’t feel positive I understood the cult accusations against him mechanically speaking (the argument as I was reading it from Jessup’s posts was that kthx visited her but did not convert her which meant he was a cult recruiter and she’s still town—I’m sure there was a better argument in there but tbh I couldn’t understand where the information was coming from back when I was pushing the vehicle lynch (but I knew that if I could get a quorum to lynch vehicle that meant that I could have time to review the evidence against kthx overnight and if I targeted kthx he would die before being able to recruit anyone, so I felt better about convincing townies on what felt like my hunch about vehicle and then acting on everyone else’s much stronger kthx suspicions after I could review it all). After going back and looking at the earlier posts things started to make more sense and I felt more and more confident that kthx was scum, and that it made the most sense in terms of setup for kthx to be a different faction from willby/vehicle. It was still very stressful to decide to make the kill (what are the fucking odds I’d be 2/2 scum hits??), but people were posting in the thread that he needed to die and he had been on the block all 3 days so it seemed like it was the best decision I could make for town with my night action.

So, night 3 I killed kthx. This is why I clarified that I was suspicious of kass more on hunches and flavor than anything. Kassius should have gotten a failed on jailing me. But, like i said, jailers can be mafia and that would make very good sense in this setup.

and here we are. I have no superior information to share other than I can confirm that I killed Voth night 2 and kthx night 3, so we can infer that the mafia (or Voth, or both) killed sdrawkcab, and mafia killed the_paul.

Since resolving the confusion about overthinkingit’s night action result, I think it’s possible there’s only one mafioso remaining (because no longer inference that overthinkingit was roleblocked). There could still be two, but idk which two.

i think the next step is planning, which means I really really want m_leonard to come make a full role claim as well because if he doesn’t I’m going to tell everyone his role so we can try to figure out the right path to victory here which seems like it’ll involve beginning with lynching him because I don’t believe his role claim (which is why I’m now asking him to reveal because if he is town then the only way I’m buyin it is if he’s selling it.

m_leonhard it’s not your birthday anymore, please come give a full claim, including all night actions to date; there’s no point hiding anymore if you are who you say.

Pulling this to the front for any townies logging in this afternoon in advance of phase change, since Jessup has buried it in her crusade to kill me for being A Tiger (fitting, no?).

m_leonhard you have still not claimed anything nor accounted for your night actions in any way. If you’re town, please make a full claim so we can move forward in determining the path to a town victory. If you’re scum please feel free to log on right before phase change, spew some bullshit about how I’m lying scum and change your vote to me—that way after I die at least nobody will have remaining questions about your alignment...

[Jessup]

Fake Claim by PartyFalcon all!! :laugh: Fake News ...Town Warning! This is who she really is in JEssups opinion.

The good stuff starts here https://forums.trenchwars.com/forum/...97#post1341772

[Jessup]

A little clip of how dangerous a role we are dealing with in PArtyFalcon :laugh4::laugh4::devil::devil: