Forum Mafia - Shawshank Redemption - Salvation lies within

[kthx]

5 hours till the deadline, although I am strongly considering extending this phase. So far the general consensus is to extend it with only one player asking to keep the deadline. I'll give the idea three more hours to foment and post my decision.

[Kassius]

This is turning into D1 Tiger King all over again, logged back in, 5+ pages of text, nothing actually happened. Going to bed early tonight, it's 8pm here and I have to be 150miles away at 7.30am tomorrow. Pre-warning here that I'm not planning to be around after this post until well into the evening tomorrow night as I've got to get a whole office stripped and set up in another location in just one day.

[scarlet]

Other than a super noncommittal throwaway comment about being easy to jump on an easy m_leonhard/beast wagon (quoted below) you haven't said anything about a player other than me all game Vehicle
I've been engaged with a lot of players, though less extensively than those directly involved with the double-lynch saga. I can give you a biglong quote of them if you really want, but it doesn't matter because the double-lynch saga has been productive: my willby, the_paul and (soft) voth townreads, and m_leonhard scumread I attribute in no small part to their posts about the double-lynch saga.

I think you'll find that rather than my not having done anything else, I just haven't been hitherto accused of anything besides trying to push a shameless double lynch. I've had four separate people + some side shade from observers like you over that, so I've hashed out that defense 4+ times. Obviously it's the majority of what I've posted.

There's not much for me to say about my actual cases on m_leonhard or beast (both of favored cases since at least page 6) because they're both cases based on lack. What am I gonna do, post about beast's lack of activity?

Both Beast and m_leonhard have jumped on easy lynches with no indication that they've thought about the alignment of the person they're bandwagoning.

Leonhard doubled down on his and has: been more active while not saying anything else, and tried to distort the narrative by putting words in his target's (my) mouth. He feels more scummy than antitown, so he's my preferred lynch. Most likely to be scum

Beast has jumped on one shitty wagon and been mostly inactive. Most of what he's guilty of is just anti-town play, but the unjustified vote on willby implies to me that he probably doesn't care what willby's alignment is i.e. beast might be scum.
Realistically, the same can be said of Sherlock Holmes and halp.

For context for the first line:

I may be open to voting for Beast or m_Leo instead, but for now my vote stays on scarlet. Beast always plays weird with these sporadic posts that border on nonsense and are rarely helpful, so I don't really put any stock in that. M_Leo did hop on the Willby wagon pretty quickly too, so that's why I say him. But I like my read of scarlet more than either of these two.

---

Regarding playstyle:
Last game I had innocent-child!Jessup to do the heavy lifting in terms of drawing out shitty unjustified cases from scum, so I didn't have to do any of that myself.
I'm pretty much where I wanted to get to with the fake copclaim lastgame via the double-lynch saga this game.
fuck RVS, I hate it so much

[WillBy]

That's fair I guess. I haven't noticed a change in play style, but I guess I dont really see a pattern within his playstyle. 1 and a half day phases isnt quite enough

This was to vehicle regarding scarlet

[WillBy]

That's fair I guess. I haven't noticed a change in play style, but I guess I dont really see a pattern within his playstyle. 1 and a half day phases isnt quite enough

[Exalt]

It's impossible for a host not to influence a game when they modkill. Had vehicle already been leading votes, well that wouldnt be very fair to town. As scum (last game) I saw it that way, but any result is going cause problems.
Not jealous of Halp having to make the call, though I respect his decision to do so. Let's just all try to follow the rules in the future, so this game about lying and killing each other can remain clean and virtuous.

I mean it's not fair to either side whichever way you slice it. Point is that if someone gets modkilled, you should treat it like a lynch. If it's a town modkill, then that player fucked their town over, but that's how it goes sometimes. Town getting themselves modkilled helped town last game, and that's garbage imo. If a mod wants to modkill, they should know how they're affecting the game regardless. That was Halp's choice to make, but since he did it, the day should've immediately ended.

[Vehicle]

Scarlet I kept wondering why you are mentioning personal protective equipment, then I realized it's a "pre-post edit"?

Vehicle, how are we supposed to debate substance on D1 if double lynching only counts as process?

I thought the same thing with PPE hahaha.

And because the validity of a double-lynch is a hypothetical. I don't think anyone's opinion on whether it is a good move or bad move is indicative of their townieness.

But it's more because he's totally changed his playstyle. Last game he was sniffing around, asking random questions, talking about wine, etc. etc., this game he's keeping everyone focused on one thing: are double lynches good or bad on D1. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter, what matter's is finding scum and scarlet is actively avoiding searching for it the way he did last game.

If there's a better option then I'll switch, but this is my hunch.

[kthx]

About the modkill stuff, I have known a lot of you on this game for a decade and more in many cases. We are all adults at this point and I know and expect everyone to not:

1. Waste my time that I chose to spend hosting
2. Ruin other people's entertainment by purposefully trying to find ways to game the system (yes I realize there are lawyers playing lol).

I have no intention of holding people's hands and generally try to interfere a bare minimum because the game is about the game and not myself. I trust all of you not to be douches and manipulate my obviously very barebones rules.

[WillBy]

I thought about this actually. Any modkills should not only kill that player, but it should end the day phase too. Modkilling beast actually helped town, because it took away a free mislynch and an extra NK for the scum team.

It's impossible for a host not to influence a game when they modkill. Had vehicle already been leading votes, well that wouldnt be very fair to town. As scum (last game) I saw it that way, but any result is going cause problems.
Not jealous of Halp having to make the call, though I respect his decision to do so. Let's just all try to follow the rules in the future, so this game about lying and killing each other can remain clean and virtuous.

[scarlet]

Exalt yeah, you're obligated to invoke a modkill on yourself if you're about to be lynched as town, because it saves the lynch. I think I said this before actually

Wow double lynches and infinite freely invokable modkills. I guess if there's no strict phase timer then taking a modkill while the primary lynch target will just be interpreted as the day ending and you wasting the lynch (on yourself).

I guess I edited it out before posting.

Halp what's field even done this game, besides nothing? I don't have a problem with either of his posts, his second post is even pretty good. All he's really done is be inactive, which you're not really in a position to go after him for.

[Halp]

Hi, did not realize game started until late last night. I’ll get caught up after work. Field is most likely scum, though.

[the_paul]

Also since I forgot to say it, I don't plan on voting Scarlet the whole way through. But when I hosted, I hated trying one post with a vote, another post with an unvote, then a 3rd post later on with the switched vote. When I find someone to switch it to I'll do it all in 1 post, I just find it way easier to track keeping it all together. I think we were mostly arguing about semantics scarlet. I read it as you were advocating that we commit to a double lynch on day 1 basically no matter what, whereas when I go back and read it again it sounds more like you're just starting a discussion on the idea of it, which is completely different. I voted for you based on my initial reading, and I'll unvote you when I decide who I'm going to vote for next based on the 2nd reading.

[Exalt]

That modkill, while it actually saved town a phase of lynching him, left mafia much closer to winning. Had he played normal, town would never have hit mylo (or anything close).
In summary, beast is either scum or a liability to town.

I thought about this actually. Any modkills should not only kill that player, but it should end the day phase too. Modkilling beast actually helped town, because it took away a free mislynch and an extra NK for the scum team.

[Exalt]

Wanting to double lynch might be anti-town, but is it actually scummy? Is it truly alignment-indicative?

You got any other reasons as to why you're voting Scarlett? You did it D1 last game too. I'd rather lynch you first if there has to be a choice, considering you've done nothing useful so far, while scarlett at least creates interactions to analyze. What makes you town this game when you're playing the same way you do as scum?

fixed

[Exalt]

As explained by multiple others and argued by myself, a blind D1 double lynch is bad for town. The fact that he's pushing for it, so hard, is really scummy to me. Shit, he literally just changed his vote off of me to ensure that one happens. If he's scum (which I think he is), tying up the vote with Beast is 1) a mechanism to ensure that a townie goes down with him and 2) a means by which the other scum can hide in the voting. It's shady af.

Again, if you go back to my first post on this issue, I am not opposed to double lynching ever. As brought up repeatedly, the Willby/Voth vote last game would have been a great time to use that mechanism.

Now, if someone could point to specific arcticulable facts that give rise to reasonable suspicion for two players equally right now, then I'd be open to hearing a double lynch argument. But just a blanket "two lynch good, one lynch bad" is not going to win me over.

Wanting to double lynch might be anti-town, but is it actually scummy? Is it truly alignment-indicative?

You got any other reasons as to why you're voting Scarlett? You did it D1 yesterday too. I'd rather lynch you first if there has to be a choice, considering you've done nothing useful so far, while scarlett at least creates interactions to analyze. What makes you town this game when you're playing the same way you do as scum?