TW Mafia: Dodgeball aka Revenge of the Voth

[Beast]

Halp - 5 (Panda Express, Exalt, Vehicle, LF, sdrawkcab)

So going by day one cluster fuck of a mess, we have to make decisions for scum hunting off of this.

Dont need to explain myself any further the_paul. The evidence is in plain site.

[Exalt]

From Mafia Wiki:

Because it's difficult to win as a Serial Killer, it's considered very common to give them extra abilities, which may include: Being investigation-immune (will be viewed as town-aligned if investigated), being Bulletproof (immunity to shots), having Strongman capability (nightkill cannot be blocked or protected against) or having Ninja capability (nightkill cannot be tracked or watched)

This literally makes no sense, because who was the scum kill then? If there is an SK and mafia, then there should be two deaths. With a RBer out there as well, we know that nobody was protected, so this theory falls apart instantly.

[Voth]

Really? Thinking back to the times I've been on scum teams, I remember it as usually being both. Immune to night kills and investigates innocent, but doesn't have any special abilities beyond that.

My wife always makes fun of me for my horrendous memory. Maybe you are right. Either way, it makes this harder.

[Beast]

Well, considering this is entirely based off what people say, pretty sure you're the one filled with retarded bullshit. Also, I notice you're impressively upset. Compensating?

Vote: Beast

i'm not upset I actually realize now that you have got us a pretty good list to work off of.

[LF]

I was open to the possibility that the way I am used to playing (Town Of Salem) is just different than the way you guys play but literally everything I am reading confirms what I already knew about the 2 roles in question being immune to a standard night kill.

[Voth]

This literally makes no sense, because who was the scum kill then? If there is an SK and mafia, then there should be two deaths. With a RBer out there as well, we know that nobody was protected, so this theory falls apart instantly.

Doesn't fall apart completely. Just playing devil's advocate, the scum kill could have been blocked by a roleblocker or a doctor (which apparently is in the game because we have a dead nurse).

In fact, the presence of a nurse at all is sort of scary because it does indicate that there might be quite a few power roles in the game which might necessitate town to have a nurse to fall back on for protection if the doctor dies. Fuck.

This is just weird because LF is either scum flailing or doing a piss poor job at telling the truth because he is not versed in TW mafia norms.

[sailor jupiter]

Now, this is the first nightkill so it's really difficult (read: impossible) to compare it to anything else besides the lynch from D1, but there is a case to be made that this kill is not a mafia kill based on the flavor text... I literally can't believe I'm saying that.

What makes you think this isn't a mafia kill? And if it's not, wouldn't this poke another hole in LF's defense? I can't image there are that many killing roles.

[LF]

Here's my friends list from ToS....With the bottom name on that list is it really outside the realm of possibility that GF and/or random 3rd party are immune to standard night kills? I might be flailing but only to try to prove what actually transpired last night

[the_paul]

The only weird thing with all of this is what Jessup brought up about the juicy-flavorful-killtext of Kthx. Here it is:



Now, this is the first nightkill so it's really difficult (read: impossible) to compare it to anything else besides the lynch from D1, but there is a case to be made that this kill is not a mafia kill based on the flavor text... I literally can't believe I'm saying that.

Ayyyy January 19, 2021: First flavor mention of the year, and it came from Voth of all people. Welcome to Flavortown, people.

In all seriousness though, I agree. It was a great point from Jessup. I would put a pin in it now until we have something to compare it to though. With the wedgie and broken glasses, my guess would be it's nerds vs. bullies, but until we have something to compare the kill writeup to, we'll just be guessing. Is this ~*Flavor*~ enough to postpone lynching LF and ignore Voth's result for now? For me it's not atm, but I look forward to hearing other opinions

[Exalt]

I was open to the possibility that the way I am used to playing (Town Of Salem) is just different than the way you guys play but literally everything I am reading confirms what I already knew about the 2 roles in question being immune to a standard night kill.

It is possible that you are a town vigi and Vehicle is a BP Godfather variant. What I refuse to accept is that he's an SK, because if this were true, there would be two deaths right now. The only other option where an SK is even viable is that YOU are an SK and not a Vigilante, and Vehicle is a BP Godfather.

Here are our options:

1. We lynch Vehicle. If he flips town, LF is practically confirmed scum. We use anyone connected with him as a basis for further scum hunting. If Vehicle flips scum, same thing applies.

2. We lynch someone else besides Vehicle/LF. Voth has no choice but to follow LF again. LF cannot refuse to kill obviously, or he will be confirmed scum. IF he isn't scum, then two deaths should happen on Night 2. If there is only one, then LF is lying and is confirmed scum. Even if there are two deaths though, this doesn't confirm that LF isn't an SK. Him being stuck on claiming there is an SK over and over with only one death on N1 makes absolutely no sense otherwise, so I'm still believing he's scum or SK. Time will tell I guess.

3. We Lynch LF. If he flips town, Vehicle is practically confirmed scum. We use anyone connected with him as a basis for further scum hunting. If LF flips scum, same thing applies.

Unless someone has an investigative role or something else along those lines, which they should not claim regardless at this stage, I don't see another way to handle this. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears.

[Exalt]

It is possible that you are a town vigi and Vehicle is a BP Godfather variant. What I refuse to accept is that he's an SK, because if this were true, there would be two deaths right now. The only other option where an SK is even viable is that YOU are an SK and not a Vigilante, and Vehicle is a BP Godfather.

Here are our options:

1. We lynch Vehicle. If he flips town, LF is practically confirmed scum. We use anyone connected with him as a basis for further scum hunting. If Vehicle flips scum, same thing applies.

2. We lynch someone else besides Vehicle/LF. Voth has no choice but to follow LF again. LF cannot refuse to kill obviously, or he will be confirmed scum. IF he isn't scum, then two deaths should happen on Night 2. If there is only one, then LF is lying and is confirmed scum. Even if there are two deaths though, this doesn't confirm that LF isn't an SK. Him being stuck on claiming there is an SK over and over with only one death on N1 makes absolutely no sense otherwise, so I'm still believing he's scum or SK. Time will tell I guess.

3. We Lynch LF. If he flips town, Vehicle is practically confirmed scum. We use anyone connected with him as a basis for further scum hunting. If LF flips scum, same thing applies.

Unless someone has an investigative role or something else along those lines, which they should not claim regardless at this stage, I don't see another way to handle this. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears.

As for Option Number 1: Vehicle could still claim if needed, which would easily be CC'd if he was scum. If he isn't, then LF is caught regardless and he gets lynched today. This is a last resort option though, because the less people who claim, the better.

[sailor jupiter]

2. We lynch someone else besides Vehicle/LF. Voth has no choice but to follow LF again. LF cannot refuse to kill obviously, or he will be confirmed scum. IF he isn't scum, then two deaths should happen on Night 2. If there is only one, then LF is lying and is confirmed scum. Even if there are two deaths though, this doesn't confirm that LF isn't an SK. Him being stuck on claiming there is an SK over and over with only one death on N1 makes absolutely no sense otherwise, so I'm still believing he's scum or SK. Time will tell I guess.

Beast? Backwards? u?

[Exalt]

Beast? Backwards? u?

You're not gonna be able to lynch me. Sorry friend. You'll have to just try killing me at night and find out what is in store for you afterword.

[the_paul]

It is possible that you are a town vigi and Vehicle is a BP Godfather variant. What I refuse to accept is that he's an SK, because if this were true, there would be two deaths right now. The only other option where an SK is even viable is that YOU are an SK and not a Vigilante, and Vehicle is a BP Godfather.

Here are our options:

1. We lynch Vehicle. If he flips town, LF is practically confirmed scum. We use anyone connected with him as a basis for further scum hunting. If Vehicle flips scum, same thing applies.

2. We lynch someone else besides Vehicle/LF. Voth has no choice but to follow LF again. LF cannot refuse to kill obviously, or he will be confirmed scum. IF he isn't scum, then two deaths should happen on Night 2. If there is only one, then LF is lying and is confirmed scum. Even if there are two deaths though, this doesn't confirm that LF isn't an SK. Him being stuck on claiming there is an SK over and over with only one death on N1 makes absolutely no sense otherwise, so I'm still believing he's scum or SK. Time will tell I guess.

3. We Lynch LF. If he flips town, Vehicle is practically confirmed scum. We use anyone connected with him as a basis for further scum hunting. If LF flips scum, same thing applies.

Unless someone has an investigative role or something else along those lines, which they should not claim regardless at this stage, I don't see another way to handle this. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears.

Not a big fan of #1, because it could prompt the Town Doctor that we think exists to claim, or be exposed through voting patterns. Not a sure thing, but a huge risk given the nurse already being dead.

2. Not a huge fan of #2 either because it essentially forces Voth to only target someone he already got a result on. In addition, if there has ever been a more obvious target for scum NK/roleblock than Voth is ATM, I can't think of it offhand.

3. Basically the exact reasoning behind my vote being where it is. Also, even if LF is a vigi, a vigi that takes pot shots on night 1 is arguably as dangerous to town as he is to scum 9 times out of 10. Maybe he guessed right and would have killed Veh, who knows? Still a supremely risky play.

I'm not 100% locked in on voting LF, but right now that's where logic leads me. Sucks because LF hasn't played on here in a long time, and we definitely need the added activity from fresh players, but thats a sidenote. Right now the fact is that we have 1 night kill, and 1 result that says LF performed a killing action. I don't see how any logic will point somewhere else unless other town power roles claim (please don't), but I'll keep an open mind for the time being.

[Voth]

It is possible that you are a town vigi and Vehicle is a BP Godfather variant. What I refuse to accept is that he's an SK, because if this were true, there would be two deaths right now. The only other option where an SK is even viable is that YOU are an SK and not a Vigilante, and Vehicle is a BP Godfather.

Here are our options:

1. We lynch Vehicle. If he flips town, LF is practically confirmed scum. We use anyone connected with him as a basis for further scum hunting. If Vehicle flips scum, same thing applies.

2. We lynch someone else besides Vehicle/LF. Voth has no choice but to follow LF again. LF cannot refuse to kill obviously, or he will be confirmed scum. IF he isn't scum, then two deaths should happen on Night 2. If there is only one, then LF is lying and is confirmed scum. Even if there are two deaths though, this doesn't confirm that LF isn't an SK. Him being stuck on claiming there is an SK over and over with only one death on N1 makes absolutely no sense otherwise, so I'm still believing he's scum or SK. Time will tell I guess.

3. We Lynch LF. If he flips town, Vehicle is practically confirmed scum. We use anyone connected with him as a basis for further scum hunting. If LF flips scum, same thing applies.

Unless someone has an investigative role or something else along those lines, which they should not claim regardless at this stage, I don't see another way to handle this. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears.

It has to be 1 or 3. Seems pretty clear that we need to decide who the more likely townie is: Vehicle or LF. The results will dictate how we move forward obviously.

Option 2 is too long-term and unknown. We could easily just use D1 bullshit logic to lynch someone and they flip town and we are truly fucked. We need answers one way or the other. It's a 12 person game and we are already down two townies, bringing the total in the game to 10. We have no idea if there's a third party yet either, which makes this even more unknown.

Vehicle had some weird moments D1. So did LF. Both unfortunately have given me some scumreads. Now LF is seeming more scummy because of the night-immune/SK nonsense, but I do wonder if there's a chance of just a big disconnect from what he's used to playing.

I'd hate to lynch our town Vig if LF is who he says he is but I don't know that I can veer from that path at this point. Unless Vehicle claims and that could be vetted, but I don't know how much damage we do with so many people claiming on D2 with me already being "out there."