Terri Schiavo

[50% Packetloss]

ROFL, that's one of the best images I've ever seen. But give credit where credit is due (http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=creeve).

For those who have no idea what people are talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo

[Tone]

why wasnt Terri Schiavo given general anaesthesia

if she could not be euthanized with a leathal injection and had to thurst to death instead over days of agony-torture, why wasnt she at least given general anaesthesia as not to be conscious during thursting to death over several days of torturous agony?

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the early non-sense pro-suffering arguments against anaesthesia to eliminate the suffering of surgury parallel to todays unfounded pro-torture arguments against abolitionism, that is, using future technology to eliminate mental pain.

http://www.general-anaesthesia.com/

[K2Grey]

The lack, for the most part, of a functioning brain makes it difficult to feel pain or torturous agony.

Having said this, I continue to fail to understand how condemning someone to die from starvation and dehydration is any more natural or moral than poisoning them.

[Subjugation]

The lack, for the most part, of a functioning brain makes it difficult to feel pain or torturous agony.

Having said this, I continue to fail to understand how condemning someone to die from starvation and dehydration is any more natural or moral than poisoning them.

I would imagine the reason lies in the idea of causing the death via active participation, as opposed to death via passivity.

[Squeezer]

I'm pretty sure he divorced her, then used the lawsuit money she received (which was supposed to pay her hospital bills and such) and used it for his attorney. From what I read, he called off nursing care a few years back even though she was showing signs of recooperation.

The guy stands to make some dough on this one. I don't think it was blown too far out of proportion. Either way, I think keeping her around for 15 years in the state she was in was slightly cruel.

Michael Schiavo has been criticized by the Schindlers and their supporters for entering into a romantic relationship with another woman, Jodi Centonze, while still legally married to Mrs. Schiavo. Mr. Schiavo and Centonze have had two children together. Mr. Schiavo denies wrongdoing in this matter, stating that he has chosen not to divorce Mrs. Schiavo and relinquish guardianship because he wanted to carry out her final wishes not to be kept alive in a persistent vegetative state.

Many of the hospital staff describe Mr. Schiavo as a very supportive husband who berated nurses for not taking better care of his wife; in 1994, the administration of one nursing home attempted, unsuccessfully, to get a restraining order against him because he was demanding more attention for his wife at the expense of other patients' care

Raising the issue of a possible conflict of interest is the fact that Mr. Schiavo stood to inherit the remainder of Mrs. Schiavo's malpractice settlement upon her death. Mr. Schiavo has publicly responded to this charge by claiming that of the original $1,050,000 awarded in the malpractice suit, less than $50,000 is left, the rest having been spent under a judge's supervision on medical care for Mrs. Schiavo and the ongoing legal battle. He had also had a contract drafted stating that should the Schindlers refrain from any further legal action, he will donate whatever his inheritance may be to charity. The Schindlers refused the offer.

I'm sorry, what did you say?

that's what I thought.

After 15 years, I would be weary too.

And perhaps you need a good reason other than money, for why Shavio would pull the tube, so.....

On March 11, 2005, media tycoon Robert Herring (who believes that embryonic stem cell research could have cured Terri Schiavo's condition in the future) offered $1 million to Michael Schiavo if he agreed to waive his guardianship to his wife's parents. The offer was rejected, Schiavo having reportedly found it "offensive." Michael Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, stated that Mr. Schiavo has received other monetary offers, also rejected, including one of $10 million. These offers may have been made under the misconception that the removal of Mrs. Schiavo's feeding tube remained simply a matter of Mr. Schiavo's choice. It was ruled in February 2000 that Mrs. Schiavo would choose to have the tube removed, and Michael Schiavo did not have legal standing to overrule this legal determination.

[Tone]

The lack, for the most part, of a functioning brain makes it difficult to feel pain or torturous agony.

Having said this, I continue to fail to understand how condemning someone to die from starvation and dehydration is any more natural or moral than poisoning them.

you cant take a chance, its real easy to give someone anaesthesia. my guess is that if you took a hot iron to her skin and she screamed out in agony, shed probably experience some sort of discomfort from starving to death, which is so basic and deeply hardwired in the brain compared to being able to commincate or think.

i see moral but i dont know why you typed natural. of course its not natural. nature doesnt matter. the action that leads to the least suffering is the moral action, not what is creatively imagined to be natural or not natural. catholics believe in the ethics of 'natural law' this is where they imagine some things as natural, and somethings as not natural, and say that the things that are not natural are wrong, even if their beliefs are pro-suffering.

[Tone]

I would imagine the reason lies in the idea of causing the death via active participation, as opposed to death via passivity.

yes you are correct, that is exactly what i thought it terms of being euthanized. they dont do it because its active where as ceasing treatment is passive. but thats not what i was talking about. i was talking about anaesthesia while thursting to death. being put to uncounsiousness like you are in surgury, not being killed.

[PH]

Tone, I refuse to take you seriously until you change your ridiculous avatar/sig combo.

Staying on topic.. I didn't have a clue who the hell she was or what happened to her, but judging by everyone saying they're sick of her being in every headline I guess that's not an entirely bad thing. Anyway, one death is tragic and creates headlines, but thousands die and it goes unnoticed, so I'm not exactly buying all the hype that seems to have been surrounding this ordeal.

[Tone]

Tone, I refuse to take you seriously until you change your ridiculous avatar/sig combo.

Staying on topic.. I didn't have a clue who the hell she was or what happened to her, but judging by everyone saying they're sick of her being in every headline I guess that's not an entirely bad thing. Anyway, one death is tragic and creates headlines, but thousands die and it goes unnoticed, so I'm not exactly buying all the hype that seems to have been surrounding this ordeal.

it could be propaganda to make way for weird pro-life laws. the media is careful propaganda all of the time, thats why its weird and imbalanced like that

for instance, before 9/11 there was a piolit episode of some show that was cancelled right away about how the government wanted to bring down the twin towers to make way for martial law. an actor interviewed said the writters were contacted by the FBI. why they do this i dont know

[Subjugation]

i was talking about anaesthesia while thursting to death. being put to uncounsiousness like you are in surgury, not being killed.

She was given routine dosages of morphine.

However, if you read a previous post, they usually don't anesthetize/drug ppl in her condition because when the body is in starvation/dehydration mode, there isn't an actual "pain" involved, more like mental anguish. Furthermore, without a functional cerebral cortex (like her condition), they say it's not possible for a human to experience mental anguish, nor pain.

But, like I said, they gave her morphine anyway, because of the controversy.

[Tone]

She was given routine dosages of morphine.

However, if you read a previous post, they usually don't anesthetize/drug ppl in her condition because when the body is in starvation/dehydration mode, there isn't an actual "pain" involved, more like mental anguish. .

anaesthetics take care of mental anguish too, because your gone, unconscious, deeper than sleep, deeper than making random noises and moving around, totally gone, they arent just pain specific. but from what i read, it seems she was almost as gone as one would be if they were on an anaesthetic anyway. its a good thing she was at least given morphine, its no bother to just go ahead and do it anyway weather it is confused or not as to what she might be experiencing.

[Bioture]

Her husband had the right, because her parents could never kill her. So the moral of the story is, when you turn 21, make sure you have a person thats not a pussy and will pull the plug on you if the extensive tests show that you'll be a vegetable forever.

I would have opted for a much more humane death than starvation, however. Why couldn't we just whack her in the back of the head with a stick of salami or something? then we'd be able to use all this money and feed people who actually HAVE brains.

[Tone]

Her husband had the right, because her parents could never kill her. So the moral of the story is, when you turn 21, make sure you have a person thats not a pussy and will pull the plug on you if the extensive tests show that you'll be a vegetable forever.

I would have opted for a much more humane death than starvation, however. Why couldn't we just whack her in the back of the head with a stick of salami or something? then we'd be able to use all this money and feed people who actually HAVE brains.

i thought the moral was to have a living will

[Subjugation]

i thought the moral was to have a living will

Not exactly. The Judiciary ruled against the parents. If you don't trust your wife/husband, then you probably should think about the living will.

[Benno]

That point is kinda moot since in an ideal world you wouldn't marry someone you didn't trust.


edit: I just read her blog, she has alot of good things to say about this.