The American Revolution

[Troll King]

I'd hoped by now that my reputation for having interesting things to say should have surpassed my reputation for spelling and grammar enough that people would stop pointing out occasional errors and thus taking away attention from what I was trying to say.

[DoTheFandango]

that's all i saw from that post, sorry

That's all I saw from that post, sorry.

[Vykromond]

That's all I saw from that post, sorry.

I'm sorry, but that's all I saw from that post.

I'd hoped by now that my reputation for having interesting things to say should have surpassed my reputation for spelling and grammar enough that people would stop pointing out occasional errors and thus taking away attention from what I was trying to say.

I'm delighted to prove you wrong!

[GoldenPlums]

Where did benno go?

[404 Not Found]

Epi was probably just trolling with that comment, but many share that perspective. The reasoning is that Canada was victorious (note the emphasis on Canada instead of Britain, though Canada didn't technically exist as such) because they were able to hold off the American invasion.

The war wasn't about Britain regaining control over the States (which would have lead to your scenario of Face being a Brit) but more about the States wanting to push Britian out of North America. This aspect of Manifest Destiny wasn't the only reason, but it was a strong reason. For Canadians, it was about survival and halting the American expansion north. Many of us claim victory because we were successful in doing that, and they would counter your statement of Face not living in the UK with a more accurate argument that Epi and I aren't currently living in the U.S., which is what was likely to have happened if the war ended differently. Many Americans will agree that the war was a great step in establishing American national identity, but I think it had a greater effect on establishing a Canadian national identity, especially in how it managed to unite both Upper Canada and Lower Canada (i.e. English Canada and French Canada) in a common cause. Many would argue that there wouldn't have been a Canada if the war hadn't gone the way it did. That's why I emphasized the idea of the war being a victory for Canada rather than a victory for Britain earlier.

I don't even think the war of 1812 has much of a presence in British history lessons as, at the time, they were busy with a much more defining conflict with Napolean.

As much as Canada's territory played a roll in this war, don't forget that the Battle of New Orleans was part of this war and was quite a distance from the Canadian territory.

Battle of New Orleans - January 1815

If it wasn't for Hurricane Katrina, I probably would not have even had any idea that this was part and the end of the war of 1812.

[Subjugation]

Yea, that was an interesting story. Historians point out that's where Jackson earned his street credits.

[Ephemeral]

okay eph, let's hear your suggestions about how to make that happen

My opinion is that society takes something that is very intrinsically satisfying (learning) and somehow makes it something that is ugly. This is similar to taking something you enjoy, like a hobby, and turn it into a business.
As young children, we love to learn. In fact we are sponges, soaking up new things at a tremendous rate. As soon as we begin schooling, with other people 'forcing' the subject material and rate that we are 'supposed' to learn at, we begin to no longer enjoy learning. Add to that the fact that these other people also begin attaching 'grades' to our lack of performance (based upon some standardized acceptance level), and we really begin to dread the learning process. Take any intrinsically satisfying activity and apply 'grading' to it and watch how fast it no longer is fun. (Like sex when you get older. Imagine your partner assigning a grade to your performance each time, "that was about a C- honey".)
Or consider parents who see a child who really enjoys skating or gymnastics for fun. They start them in competitive, 'graded' activities and all of a sudden the kids hates it.

I also believe that you can not apply a standard 'learning time line' to every child. While it is true that some learning processes (like speech) have optimum times related to brain development, I can not help but think that all of us are individuals that learn in our in way, at our own rates, and on our own time lines. Forcing all of us to learn math at 2:00PM everyday doesn't seem to account for this. I would advocate a much more individualized approach to learning, with the teachers and the teaching system being more responsible for a students failure.

I would also change the pay rates for teachers. It is ludicrous that we pay teachers at such low rate while we pay some moron astronomical rates to stroke a guitar or hit a ball. What kind of society do we live in that has set up a system where this happens?

So those are just a few of my thoughts on the state of learning and some possible ways to consider change.

[Subjugation]

Those are all pretty good points, and I agree that such an approach would benefit students.

The problem comes in when you factor in the economics of that proposal. How would you fund such a program? It basically sounds like some of the private educational programs that already exist, and if you were to implement this in the public system, it would be politically impossible to get it passed. What governor would sign a bill that would require an enormous tax hike, assuming it even made it out of the legislature?

That's the sad thing about public education---the whole system is flawed. In order to fix it, it would require a significant overhaul, not the minor tweaking that occurs right now.

[Benno]

Where did benno go?

What? Nobody has refuted the claims made my prior post, in fact the arrogance of the "yur country isn't important" bullshit only supports it. If "not important" is the summary of how England managed to lose claim to a sizable chunk of north America, there just might be a reason why it's conveniently ignored. Other nations skirt their embarrassing history, is it really unreasonable to imagine yours does as well?

Obviously you think I'm making some sort of national rivalry out of this, but if I was, the American Revolution is a poor example of why we rock and you suck. British failures don't equal American success.

[Vykromond]

My opinion is that society takes something that is very intrinsically satisfying (learning) and somehow makes it something that is ugly. This is similar to taking something you enjoy, like a hobby, and turn it into a business.
As young children, we love to learn. In fact we are sponges, soaking up new things at a tremendous rate. As soon as we begin schooling, with other people 'forcing' the subject material and rate that we are 'supposed' to learn at, we begin to no longer enjoy learning. Add to that the fact that these other people also begin attaching 'grades' to our lack of performance (based upon some standardized acceptance level), and we really begin to dread the learning process. Take any intrinsically satisfying activity and apply 'grading' to it and watch how fast it no longer is fun. (Like sex when you get older. Imagine your partner assigning a grade to your performance each time, "that was about a C- honey".)
Or consider parents who see a child who really enjoys skating or gymnastics for fun. They start them in competitive, 'graded' activities and all of a sudden the kids hates it.

I also believe that you can not apply a standard 'learning time line' to every child. While it is true that some learning processes (like speech) have optimum times related to brain development, I can not help but think that all of us are individuals that learn in our in way, at our own rates, and on our own time lines. Forcing all of us to learn math at 2:00PM everyday doesn't seem to account for this. I would advocate a much more individualized approach to learning, with the teachers and the teaching system being more responsible for a students failure.

I would also change the pay rates for teachers. It is ludicrous that we pay teachers at such low rate while we pay some moron astronomical rates to stroke a guitar or hit a ball. What kind of society do we live in that has set up a system where this happens?

So those are just a few of my thoughts on the state of learning and some possible ways to consider change.

no offense, dude, but this is sort of the reply i expected: some more complaining, a few pipe dreams, and no workable, well-thought-out courses of action. do you want to eliminate grades? what would you have in place of them? you want a "much more individualized approach to learning"? where the hell are you going to get the manpower, time, and funding, and will all that shit be somehow worthwhile when the reward is reached (and how on earth do you know?) you want to change teachers' salaries? how? from where? what on earth does this have to do with the privately owned and managed entertainment industry? i mean, private school teachers are paid well!

edit: the funny thing is, there wasn't even a word in this post about the "learning to learn" stuff that was in your last one, and that's what i was really curious about. any schmuck can say "teachers need to be paid more," it's a truism, but given the fact that your posts on this forum are usually well-considered i thought that you would have a better explanation of what "learning to learn" would even approximate in an educational system.

[Facetious]

yeah our educational system is fucked

i dont understand how someone that wants those changes in the educational system can cricitize me for questioning a president whose idea of proper education is to grade every school and student using almost literally nothing but a standardized test. there is no short-term solution to the problem, because the people we have in office have no remote plans to actually improve our education system, and until theyre out of office, theres no chance of it happening. you say democrats are politicians, too, and they lie, etc, and i agree, im not incredibly keen on the democratic party, they arent the saviors of our country. but at least im pretty sure that if they were in office, the educational system would just stay mediocre, as opposed to being rapidly shoved towards "absolutely terrible"

[Epinephrine]

edit: the funny thing is, there wasn't even a word in this post about the "learning to learn" stuff that was in your last one, and that's what i was really curious about. any schmuck can say "teachers need to be paid more," it's a truism, but given the fact that your posts on this forum are usually well-considered i thought that you would have a better explanation of what "learning to learn" would even approximate in an educational system.

Interestingly enough I think France is the only country in the world where taking philosophy is manditory in high school and everyone needs to write some thesis paper or something on philosophical debate. I'm pretty sure this is true, I remember reading an article about this somewhere (possibly the Economist).

[Ephemeral]

no offense, dude, but this is sort of the reply i expected: some more complaining, a few pipe dreams, and no workable, well-thought-out courses of action. do you want to eliminate grades? what would you have in place of them? you want a "much more individualized approach to learning"? where the hell are you going to get the manpower, time, and funding, and will all that shit be somehow worthwhile when the reward is reached (and how on earth do you know?) you want to change teachers' salaries? how? from where? what on earth does this have to do with the privately owned and managed entertainment industry? i mean, private school teachers are paid well!

edit: the funny thing is, there wasn't even a word in this post about the "learning to learn" stuff that was in your last one, and that's what i was really curious about. any schmuck can say "teachers need to be paid more," it's a truism, but given the fact that your posts on this forum are usually well-considered i thought that you would have a better explanation of what "learning to learn" would even approximate in an educational system.

No offense dude, but give me a fucking break. I posted my opinion in a 2D online space game for God's sake. You were expecting me to solve the entire educational system in a single post?
I am not an expert in the educational system nor did I purport to be one. I clearly identified the post as simply my opinion, I never said I had the answers. Sorry that you feel that I posted what you believe to be ‘pipe dreams’.

I truly hope you can find the answers to all of life’s questions here in these forums. Maybe you can start a thread like, ‘how can we achieve world peace’ and then jump down the throats of any person who happens to present an opinion.

The one thing that I can say for sure, I will never again waste your time or my time on presenting my opinions in answer to any of your questions or posts.

[Ashlee]

I'm too lazy to read all of the long posts, but I just wanted to say that it's lame to point out grammatical errors just because you're too stupid to think up an actual retaliation or argument to what they are trying to say, yeah

You left out a capital letter, well shit, I'm going to feel superior and point out that you neglected the shift button because your argument is valid and I am not witty

[Vykromond]

No offense dude, but give me a fucking break. I posted my opinion in a 2D online space game for God's sake. You were expecting me to solve the entire educational system in a single post?

no, but if you're going to go blow hot air at how bad you think it is you might as well say one or two ways in which you think the problem could have been averted or remedied

think about it this way: if you were building a house and i walked up to you and started shouting about how badly you were building it to anyone who would listen, wouldn't you ask me what the hell i would do in your place? wouldn't you think i was being sort of a blowhard if i didn't give you an answer?

anyone can see that the education system isn't working to its full potential. i guess i'm sorry for trying to push a person who i know can be intelligent to say something more meaningful and interesting than that, even if it is on a "2D online space game" (lol. the surest sign of intellectual bankruptcy in subspace has to be that line, no?)

I am not an expert in the educational system nor did I purport to be one. I clearly identified the post as simply my opinion, I never said I had the answers. Sorry that you feel that I posted what you believe to be ‘pipe dreams’.

see above.

I truly hope you can find the answers to all of life’s questions here in these forums. Maybe you can start a thread like, ‘how can we achieve world peace’ and then jump down the throats of any person who happens to present an opinion.

straw man nonsense

The one thing that I can say for sure, I will never again waste your time or my time on presenting my opinions in answer to any of your questions or posts.

ephemeral hissyfit nonsense

k bye then i guess