Faith

[T3l Ca7]

Since faith is a belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. If someone lacks the ability to proof logically then he/she is stupid and the state of not awareing material evidences is called ignorant.

So why faith has been painted in such a good color but stupidity and ignorance have always been in the bad book?

[Dant-Zu]

Cause the church said Faith is teh shit.

[Ephemeral]

Since faith is a belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. If someone lacks the ability to proof logically then he/she is stupid and the state of not awareing material evidences is called ignorant.

I have faith that if I touch a hot stove that it will burn me. This is based on fact/proof.
You need to revise your definition of faith.

[R1pp3r]

I have faith that if I touch a hot stove that it will burn me. This is based on fact/proof.
You need to revise your definition of faith.

That's logic. You probably have been burnt before, or you know it's hot so if you touch it, then you can figure out it will burn you. Maybe the use of another word in that sentence would make more sense. I'm not a native English speaker, so I might be wrong.

[T3l Ca7]

If you have been burnt by something less hot then you have the material evidence that you would get burnt by touching really hot stuff, and by interpolation your logic would tell you something hotter would burn you too.

[Ephemeral]

Since faith is a belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

If you have been burnt by something less hot then you have the material evidence that you would get burnt by touching really hot stuff, and by interpolation your logic would tell you something hotter would burn you too.

So you are saying that your first premise was incorrect, that faith is a belief that CAN rest on logical proof and/or material evidence?

[qan]

All things are in a sense a matter of faith, including our existence and the existence of reality, belief in mathematical principles, the soundness of logic itself, etc., "proven" (though not fully) only by repetition and necessity. It's mostly just a matter of degrees of faith. Some things can be considered reasonable or sensible to have faith in -- things that have appeared true right up until the present moment, from a personal sense. Things that have less surety deserve less overall faith and a logical/sensible person will probably not agree to them being "true."

If a person has for as long as they can recall felt strongly the presence of God (for example), and has observed nothing in past that would cast uncertainty on such a belief, one might call it sensible for them to believe God exists -- even logical. However, if they ever observed something that caused doubt to be cast on the truth or falsehood of this particular faith, one might say that it is far less sensible for the person to still have complete faith, and would be much better off with only partial faith equivalent to the difference between their prior belief and the level of doubt the observation casts.

From a logical standpoint, at least, that's how I think most people go at faith. In a way, it's the basis of all human knowledge, inherently a logical thing, and indeed the only way we can get anywhere -- else we would all the stuck trying to prove our own existences, being unable to take even the most basic appearances on faith, and shut down as a result.

Faith is then a good thing. It's the logical principle that allows you to reason about anything without knowing the full truth, a thing which can never be known anyhow. Gets you into trouble a lot, but thank god it can be changed. The dangerous and ignorant appear to be those that have ungrounded faith, which despite experiences that would lead most logical minds to doubt to some degree, continue with the same level of faith anyhow. Some religions ask that followers do this, even sometimes urge them to be and think like children. Fortunately children can be easily controlled... (but then I've said nothing new in any of this.)

[Ephemeral]

What I find most interesting about faith is, is it a learned behavior or do we have some innate need to have faith.
I have read some very interesting research with very young children that revealed a very strong bias towards ‘needing to believe’.

So do you guys think that faith is learned, or are we born with a need to believe?


In my mind, the need to believe is a part of the evolution of 'learning'. As humans evolved, learning was a very important trait to pass forward. Learning quickly was a matter of survival in early humans, a child that learned quickly would be less likely to die, thereby standing a greater chance of passing forward that trait to his children.
And what facilitates quick learning as a child? A willingness to 'believe/have' faith in the person teaching you (parent). My opinion is that children are born like "learning sponges', absorbing huge amounts of information as they grow. The capacity of children to learn is greatly enhanced with their willingness to believe in what they are told (hence Santa Claus, monsters, etc.).
Given these things, I tend to believe that all humans have an innate 'faith' trait when they are born. Hmmmm, wonder how this might tie intol human's spirituality?

.

[ZeUs!!]

I'm just pissed I only found out I was being discussed in the Goddess thread after it was closed

[SEAL]

So do you guys think that faith is learned, or are we born with a need to believe?

Are you familair with morphogenetic fields?
If not, FYI, I just used the first google hit, so im not sure if this page is relevant enough but i have faith in it that its informative enough: http://www.co-intelligence.org/P-mor...hgnicflds.html

[Epinephrine]

Since faith is a belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. If someone lacks the ability to proof logically then he/she is stupid and the state of not awareing material evidences is called ignorant.

I have faith that you will never really make sense.

[Goddess]

I'm just pissed I only found out I was being discussed in the Goddess thread after it was closed

Zeus i was wondering if you are terribly offended when i call you gay... i mean... when people call me gay i take it as a compliment... like "DAM STRAIGHT! THANKS!" Ima go back to my old ways of when any of these silly wingnuts start slamming me i'll just ignore them and comment on the nice things (they dont deserve the attention)

but i dont take you seriously btw... not trying to insult you just saying i think its cute when you snap at my ankles like face ... so feel free to comment here :wub:

Telly... do you believe or have faith in a god?

[ZeUs!!]

I <3 being called a homosexual

[Rab]

i think SOME ppl NEED faith to help them get through a difficult emotional period, like the death of a loved one.

[Troll King]

The key difference between stupidity and faith, as Telcat describes it, is in the wording she used.


Faith is belief without the need for logical proof and stupidity is the inability to form logical proof. Not needing something is different from not being to use it. The first is a decision based on choice while the latter is a decision based on limitations without any choice.

She's trying to compare two different concepts because they have one similarity, but the two have many more differences than similarities that separate one from the other.