Israel / Lebanon Shit storm

[Superted]

On a more serious side note what could lebanon possibly say? I mean...they attacked israel and now israel is defending itself. I dont know what kind of other side there is to this story.

I'm going to take a wild guess now and say you are not in Isreal or Lebanon atm, therefore you've got your information from the biased media. That's why you can't see another side to it.

[gran guerrero]

anyone see that movie munich. fucken ill.

[FarScape]

Listening to a biased media is the same as listening to FarScape's one sided argument. One should always try to hear both sides of the argument, shame we don't have any players from Lebanon....that I know of.

There shouldnt be argument...

what if your city will get bombed and people will die, superted?
wont you demend from your goverment to defend your city, so you can walk safe in the street?

everybody talk about lebanon people flee their houses, does anyone in the media talk about that the third big city in israel is almost ghostly? that all north of israel cant leave their shelters, cause they might die from katyusha and other rockets?

probably not.

there is good story in lebanon, people die, people flee, A BIG HUMANTIRIAN CRISIS..... i wonder how much die in africa and no one give a shit... there are far more worse wars there, when actually militant and armies rape and kill cvilians just like that, and aids, and starving... MILLIONS DIE THERE EVERY YEARS!!! but it seems that israel deeds on lebanon and on the palestinians are much more important...

just the amount of money that the palestinians for example, spend on media and propoganda, show how this shit is all about what you see on the news, and how it shaping the media public opinion...

if they wanted peace and quiet, they wouldnt let hizzbullah attack us, and the goverment wouldnt support them.

there is sentence that say:
"those who have mercy on the cruels, at the end will be cruel toward the merciful"

think about it...

[Superted]

My point was that when it comes to news you can't rely on one source of information, especially when that news is war related. Israel is God's country so I'm inclined to support them. However, I don't believe there is any excuse for the killing of civilians, even if they were warned prior to the attack. But again, I only know what the media has told me about this attack so making any sort of judgement is wrong.

there is good story in lebanon, people die, people flee, A BIG HUMANTIRIAN CRISIS..... i wonder how much die in africa and no one give a shit... there are far more worse wars there, when actually militant and armies rape and kill cvilians just like that, and aids, and starving... MILLIONS DIE THERE EVERY YEARS!!! but it seems that israel deeds on lebanon and on the palestinians are much more important...

I couldn't be more aware of the wars in other countries that are shown very little light in the media. They're usually not shown because it's irrelevant i.e. 'What's it got to do with us?'. That's not my personal opinion of the wars in Africa.

[Liquid Blue]

Like Superted said, it's silly to rely on one point of view, especially when the subject is war. Regardless of who's point of view it is, or how right those people think their view is, you have to look at these situations from multiple angles to get the most understanding out of this.

[gran guerrero]

Like Superted said, it's silly to rely on one point of view, especially when the subject is war. Regardless of who's point of view it is, or how right those people think their view is, you have to look at these situations from multiple angles to get the most understanding out of this.

you expect someone like farscape to take the other (Lebanese) side's view?

I wouldn't if I was Israeli too.

[Vykromond]

edit:

[Izor]

lol no one has even said the lebanese side. Our media, as left wing as it is, would surely jump at the opportunity to do something to portray lebanon as some innocent victim, and everyone really should know it.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

I want to preface this by saying that I think both sides of the conflict are being fucking childish and retarded. REALLY, stupidly childish and retarded.

I understand Israel's need to defend itself, I really do. If I lived in a country that consistently had problems with suicide bombing and rocket attacks, I'd hit a breaking point too. I don't think anyone in the world thinks that Israel shouldn't defend itself--I think the problem lies in the severity and technique that they're doing it in. I understand your problem with the Lebanese government, since technically it should've disarmed Hezbollah years ago. But the thing you have to understand is that Lebanon doesn't have the capability to do that. It never has. Should Lebanon have asked the international community for help in doing it before things escalated like this? Probably.

The thing Israel has to understand is that they're being no better (probably worse, in most cases) than the thing they're fighting. Most of the people that they're effecting aren't the people who would carry out any ill will towards Israel. Bombing people who don't have problems with you will only CAUSE them to have problems with you in the future. I know Hezbollah places themselves so that they are always mixed in with the rest of the populace, but that just means that there's a better way to root them out.

Hezbollah, on the other hand, need to stop being fucking cocks. Why is Israel pounding your country? Because YOU crossed the border and took fucking hostages, dicks. Recognize. You AREN'T the savior of Muslims in the area, you AREN'T the savior of Lebanon. You CAUSED this. It makes me sick when I listen to accounts of Sunni muslims inside Lebanon saying things like they admire Nusrallah because "at least he's defending the Lebanese people." Bullshit. He isn't defending shit, otherwise he'd be turning the two Israeli soldiers back to Israel and stopping this bullshit from spiraling out of control. What he is doing is giving Muslims another reason to hate Jews, and Jews another reason to hate Muslims. Good job, Spanky--it's real hard to make people hate each other. It's on the same level as tying my shoes in the morning.

Look, Israel was at least working to try and improve the situation of relations in the Mideast before all this bullshit started. How about we all stop invoking the names of our respective deities in the name of killing other people, since I'm pretty sure that neither religion would condone this type of bullshit.

Oh, and fuck you too, Bush. Get involved by starting the ball rolling for peace already.

[Kolar]

Well put Conc. I think the west and mostly the US can avoid a show down with Iran, Syria and Lebanon which would turn this into a major war (of which Iran really wants) by working within the UN for a peaceful resolution that would end the conflict and remove Hezbollah entirely. Through force they're only going to kill more innocent people and this terrorist organization is going to go under and have no problem for the next 50 years recruiting the youth into killing some more jews.

[404 Not Found]

After decades of suicide bombing targeting innocent civilians throughout Israel, the world powers seem to always make mention to Israel to hold calm and peace & do not retaliate.

That has been primarily an ongoing theme. So now when it comes to Israel finally saying F' that and lets finally get rid of the threat that is not even the Lebanese controlled military, but a militia under its own rule. Some are crying that the Israelis are killing innocent civilians. Hello...wake up people, these militia and bombers have been doing this on a steady basis for decades to the Israeli citizens. Not the Israeli Military, but innocent children, women and so on.

Here in the States we will cast a mixed view as some are for the Lebanese and some for the Israelis. If you are for the Lebanese being the innocent victims of this mess, then why has the Lebanese government for so many years not dealt with the security of its own borders, it was allowing the menace of a militia, not run by the government, to do it for them knowing the outcome would one day come to this.

I am not for civilian deaths by any means as both sides of this confrontation are being killed from the aftermath. That’s war for you!

Makes me wonder why the U.S. can invade and kill all over the world because of the lame excuse of 9/11 as its reasoning. Did all the people living in Iraq (of which had no ties proven or related to bin Laden or 9/11...not to leave out NO WMD) deserve the invasion & occupation of its country by the U.S. all based upon false accusations?

The Lebanese Government should reach out with its Army and join with the Israeli Army and jointly remove the Hezbollah fighters once and for all from Lebanon.

Another odd thing is why is it that when Israel releases prisoners in exchange with Hezbollah and the Palestinians, the Israeli's returned are always just the remains of the held prisoners. You do not hear of the Israeli's killing the prisoners they take. I'll give you 400 living Hezbollah prisoners for the dead remains of 3 Israeli's, seems fair and just huh? Just like the two captured American servicemen in Iraq that where tortured using power drills and killed for the murder and rape of the civilian Iraqi's a few months back. The U.S. servicemen responsible will be on trial, yet it was not enough & the Iraqi's had to torture Servicemen with no relation to the actual incident.

If all the Arab nations would group together in an effort to end these terrorist groups and live peacefully amongst one another, it would solve so many problems on a global scale, yet now they turn to the U.S. for diplomatic help when one of their own nations turns rogue. I guess that is because if the U.S. f's it up they can riot against us and burn our flags, shoot guns in the air and kill more people and place all the blame on the U.S., all of this is due to the lack of unity amongst the retards running the Arab league of Nations. Useless assholes, IMHO.

If you do not remove Hezbollah from Lebanon, than this is going will continue to endure for decades to come.

[Izor]

Oh, and fuck you too, Bush. Get involved by starting the ball rolling for peace already.

The only people who benefit from peace are the terrorists, because they will just use the time to arm themselves back up.

[Troll King]

So your solution to combat terrorism is constant warfare?

[genocidal]

Conc put it very well.

I think the problem with this situation, as well as the War in Afghanistan (let's just leave Iraq out of this to make a difficult situation a bit simpler), is that people aren't realizing that war is a moot point in 2006. War no longer exists; and people that claim that it does have an agenda.

Farscape's argument sounds like America's over going to war with Afghanistan. "These people that live and operate in this country a lot attacked us so let's bomb the motherfucking hell out of them and hope everything works out after that." I'll be clear with my biases, I supported and continue to support the War in Afghanistan. I do believe we've killed too many civilians but it's not any where near on the level of what Israel has done to Lebanese civilians. America has the technology and intelligence (though flawed in some cases of course, it's probably the best out there; so keep your "LOL IRAQ WMDS" comments to yourselves) to make located strikes that minimize civilian casualties.



CONT'D

EDIT: I figured it out, apparently the "Our fight was with a select group" was the problem and thank Allah that was banned from the thread - China could have censored me.

[genocidal]

We aren't at "war" with Afghanistan, so forgive me for continuing to use the misnomer but I do it for the sake of communication. We're at war with Al Qaeda that happen to have a lot of their operations in certain parts of Taliban concentrated Afghanistan. What people don't understand about these countries is that they're extremely de-centralized. Local warlords rule a sector and the Taliban previously (Afghan Northern Alliance now) had to pay them off for political support. Our fight was with a certain group from Afghanistan and as a result we made an alliance with the aforementioned Afghan Northern Alliance in order to overthrow the Taliban. We didn't just bomb the shit out of all of them. Sure you can criticize other methods of the US's war in Afghanistan but at least recognize the simlilarity to the situation now.

Israel, however, seems to not give two shits about who is where. That sends a message to the Muslim community - they think that Israelis are just looking for a reason to exterminate them. That may not be the case but like so many people in this thread can't seem to realize, there are always at least two sides to a conflict. Izor's consistently ignorant insults about them being "animals" is only helpful if you actually believe Israel is 100% right in every aspect and that they should indeed "kill them all".

Back to my original point, "war" doesn't exist anymore. In a world where the United States has such a military superiority over everybody it makes even thinking about going to actual war with the US or any of its allies (Israel in this case) absolutely unthinkable. That's why you see a proliferation of 1) WMDs because they serve as a deterrent and 2) terrorism because it's the only way to wage a conflict with such a military giant. If any country nuked or shot some ICBMs at a US city their life expectancy would be so fucking short that they probably wouldn't even have time to pray to God/Jesus/Allah/Buddha before they got their shit nuked, or otherwise.

And countries know this - that's why terrorism is so attractive. You can wage a war of ideas against a mean hegemon that won't get you completely destroyed.

This is what the Lebanon/Israel situation is - a conflict over terrorism. It's ridiculous for Israel to wage a war against a country that only a small part of it is actually a terrorist operation. All that does is what the terrorists want, create more hatred. They don't care about the civilians - they care about their cause. And Israel keeps proving their point. Israel will find that they are exponentially increasing their enemies willing to physically harm them faster than they can kill them.

So, Farscape saying, "Missiles come from airports therefore we bomb the airport," is a very very poor argument for waging this type of conflict. It's not even a military airport or terrorist one; fucking tourists flew in and out of it. I mean Jesus, I understand the bias because I already admitted my guilt in the Afghani situation but think about what you say.