Another shooter incident at Va Tech???

[Jeansi]

Slashdot has the best discussion about this ever I think

"How about the state give every child a pistol when he is turns something like 10. That way he could defend himself. Think of it, one guy with a pistol could have ended the whole va tech scenary right in the beginning."

That shit is scary, don't even think the dude's trolling

[Kolar]

No loss of life will change the way people feel about these deadly weapons.

No attempt was made to notify the general public until two and a half hours later from 7:15AM, no suspect found and one person dead and another dead or dying. All schools have a lock down procedure at least for class rooms and attempts could have been made by the people responsible for those buildings to lock the fucking doors so this piece of shit couldn't just walk right in.

[Facetious]

I just don't see how on earth waiting two hours to send out an e-mail was "in the best interests of the students." The initial reason that the classes weren't cancelled and the students weren't notified was because "the police had good information that the shooter had left the county, maybe even the state." They acted on bad information. The students in the class thought the gunshots were construction work. Had they gotten that e-mail, more doors could have been successfully barricaded. How, exactly, was waiting so long to send out the e-mail "in the interest of student safety"?

I also don't see how the fact that there were students in transit to campus has any relevance to student safety. It's pretty obvious when you get to class and school is cancelled, and if school were cancelled because "someone was murdered in a probable domestic dispute" I don't think it would have caused a mass panic at all. You think that maybe he could have killed more people outside some building, but I have to strongly disagree. The people in the hospital had multiple gunshot wounds. The only reason he was able to shoot each person so many times is because he was in a classroom, where not only everyone was trapped, but he could block the doors so there was no way anyone could come up behind him to do anything.

I'm not trying to "lynch" anyone. It seems to me the administration based their decisions on what the police said. Given that they assumed the police knew what they were doing, I don't blame them for that. I'm also sure campus police does a great job at what they are equipped to do, but I believe that in an incident like this one, different police should step up and make the decisions.

[Pressure Drop]

well from what i seen on the news i don't think that they did to much wrong really.

They thought the first incident was a domestic and also given the time closing the school wouldn't really stop people in transit traveling to the school anyway.

these things really annoy me - if your an emotionaly unstable person 1) go seek some help 2) if your going to kill yourself go do it quietly - to bring attention to yourself by killing others and ruining the lives of many families is so despicable

as for the media - as always they cover the story poorly, sensationalise it - seen it practicaly advertised as highest death toll school shooting watch after the break , grrrr

sometimes the way its portrayed i think well the next emo kid who decides to take out his/her angst in a suicidal school shooting is going to try hard to beat that record, as i seen them compare the shootings to the past.


i dunno i guess its hard to cover becuase when something so indiscriminate and shocking happens people are interested and the media has a field day

[Pressure Drop]

I just don't see how on earth waiting two hours to send out an e-mail was "in the best interests of the students." The initial reason that the classes weren't cancelled and the students weren't notified was because "the police had good information that the shooter had left the county, maybe even the state." They acted on bad information. The students in the class thought the gunshots were construction work. Had they gotten that e-mail, more doors could have been successfully barricaded. How, exactly, was waiting so long to send out the e-mail "in the interest of student safety"?

I also don't see how the fact that there were students in transit to campus has any relevance to student safety. It's pretty obvious when you get to class and school is cancelled, and if school were cancelled because "someone was murdered in a probable domestic dispute" I don't think it would have caused a mass panic at all. You think that maybe he could have killed more people outside some building, but I have to strongly disagree. The people in the hospital had multiple gunshot wounds. The only reason he was able to shoot each person so many times is because he was in a classroom, where not only everyone was trapped, but he could block the doors so there was no way anyone could come up behind him to do anything.

I'm not trying to "lynch" anyone. It seems to me the administration based their decisions on what the police said. Given that they assumed the police knew what they were doing, I don't blame them for that. I'm also sure campus police does a great job at what they are equipped to do, but I believe that in an incident like this one, different police should step up and make the decisions.

It really looked like a domestic, it is crazy to assume that it would turn into what it did after teh killer fled the scene. Should the university be locked down after a murder?

I dunno its a hard one - this is a big uni with 26,000 students - if they are in transit it makes it hard as you would get alot still turning up.

I remember one time my school (only 1400 ppl) was cancelled becuase there was a live mortar bomb near it, however the warning was given in the morning and the vast majority were in transit and still arrived myself included. They moved us to the opposite side off the school rather than classes. More kids per class room and we played cards and things.

So even if you had your lock down all those students would probably congregate somewhere and if the killer went there instead the story wouldn't be that much different amybe even worse imo.

its hard to tell what would have happened, its all ifs

the facts are they didn't close down the uni - that would be hard to do and it really looked like it was a bad domestic and that was over. I find it hard to blame anyone - only the killer

[Noah]

With so many variables, and a killer on a spree, there's no place to sit in the aftermath pointing fingers and judging decisions made while the heat was on.

[Kolar]

It really looked like a domestic, it is crazy to assume that it would turn into what it did after teh killer fled the scene. Should the university be locked down after a murder?

Yes, absolutely it should. If you have no idea where the person is, what drove him to do this or what mental condition he is in you're just assuming and putting the lives of potentially hundreds of people at risk on an assumption. When you make a bad call like that you have to take responsibility for it, saying that no one saw it coming doesn't matter. The procedure and correct course of action would have been to first get word to lock all class room doors, have police sweep buildings and then lock them down, post police at every corner until you are certain he is gone or caught, and use every medium at your disposal to get the word out to those at home, in their rooms or in transit and have an action plan to deal with those who are in transit.

[Chino]

So on a couple of other forums that I read, there've already been a couple of posts that I can't figure out, like:

"See, now if the students were allowed to carry guns, then there would've been fewer deaths. Blame US gun policy!"

Apparently it's minor news that VT was a legally a "firearms-free" campus. Please point me to the study where arming the general populace is a better idea. Common sense kind of dictates to me that more people with guns is a pretty sure-fire way to increase a body count (sorry Sarien, not enough people actually train to shoot one, and a lot of people are just plain retarded).

It's sad that this is already becoming a gun control/videogame/witch hunt, since the real question is "why would someone feel the need to do this?"

My statement might have come over in a way I did not mean. This dude on Youtube said exactly what I feel about the way Americans look at arms.

Stupid American's, dont act as if your bothered by this. You need to completely illegalise guns. You dont want to because of a 200 year old piece of constitution. Get real people, your kids grow up been thought about thier "rights" as a Civil War Soldier not a person in a civilised, safe and united Country. As long as its legal to carry a gun, this will keep on happening. i have no sympathy because you show no courage about a problem that needs to be tackled.

[Reaver]

Even though I don't know the layout of the college very well I agree with ya d1st0rt, letting the students know there was a murder could have caused panic, people could have went back to their dorms and the shooting could have just as easily happened in the dorms as opposed to Norris hall or wherever it was. People were going to die either way, if the gunman wouldn't have found people in Norris hall, he would have went somewhere else on campus and killed people there until he was taken down.

I hate that the media is so focused on who's fault it is. There are so many other more productive things they could focus on like the lives of the ones who have been killed in order to remember them. Pointing the finger isn't going to bring those people back.

[Noah]

Yes, absolutely it should. If you have no idea where the person is, what drove him to do this or what mental condition he is in you're just assuming and putting the lives of potentially hundreds of people at risk on an assumption. When you make a bad call like that you have to take responsibility for it, saying that no one saw it coming doesn't matter. The procedure and correct course of action would have been to first get word to lock all class room doors, have police sweep buildings and then lock them down, post police at every corner until you are certain he is gone or caught, and use every medium at your disposal to get the word out to those at home, in their rooms or in transit and have an action plan to deal with those who are in transit.

Have an action plan to deal with THOUSANDS of potential targets spread around a huge area? The killer was loose, and nobody know where.

If the killer indeed had fled the school, and it was locked down, would it be a good use of valuble resources to check the school while he were running around elsewhere?

When the killer has vanished, is there any way to NOT assume anything? Every decision would be a chance, and a chance that would put those who aren't in a safe zone at harm.

If there were limitless of resources ready at the instant of the first shot then I'd agree with you.

[Noah]

Even though I don't know the layout of the college very well I agree with ya d1st0rt, letting the students know there was a murder could have caused panic, people could have went back to their dorms and the shooting could have just as easily happened in the dorms as opposed to Norris hall or wherever it was. People were going to die either way, if the gunman wouldn't have found people in Norris hall, he would have went somewhere else on campus and killed people there until he was taken down.

I hate that the media is so focused on who's fault it is. There are so many other more productive things they could focus on like the lives of the ones who have been killed in order to remember them. Pointing the finger isn't going to bring those people back.

Just going to qoute this because it's good.

[Epinephrine]

Ugh this was a horrible thing to have happened.

I bet they're going to find counterstrike installed on that guy's computer or something and then they're going to blame computer games all over again.

[Kolar]

Have an action plan to deal with THOUSANDS of potential targets spread around a huge area? The killer was loose, and nobody know where.

How is that asking anything out of the ordinary? This is a school with 26,000 people. They should have the resources if lets say a fire broke out, a chemical spill, a bomb threat?

If the killer indeed had fled the school, and it was locked down, would it be a good use of valuble resources to check the school while he were running around elsewhere?

Again you're assuming he wasn't sticking around the school and it was locked down. Regardless the police should have done a check on each building then locked the doors, lock class room doors and allow for at least minimal security to be posted around or in side. Doing so would allow them to secure and protect some people while searching for the killer. Instead they decided to do nothing, not tell anyone, not get more police, not search the campus. They decided that he would run without knowing anything about the situation.

When the killer has vanished, is there any way to NOT assume anything? Every decision would be a chance, and a chance that would put those who aren't in a safe zone at harm.

Why would he leave the campus?
With no information they decided that the asshole would leave. I don't get how logically they came to that conclusion and they will have to explain it to someone later.

If there were limitless of resources ready at the instant of the first shot then I'd agree with you.

Again, state school. 26,000 people. If their security and logistics were lacking then again Administration gets the blame.

[Noah]

How is that asking anything out of the ordinary? This is a school with 26,000 people. They should have the resources if lets say a fire broke out, a chemical spill, a bomb threat?

It is indeed out of the ordinary, you can't have the resources to instantly secure 26,000 students spread out over a wide area. The difference in scenarios is that all of fires, chemicals, explosions and bombs doesn't strike again in a completley different areas, depending on where the students go. There will ALWAYS be small groups that goes a bit out of the main flock. You'd need one officer per every 4-5'th student to make sure that nobody strayed in dangerous areas. 5000 officers ready to move out and perfectly execute a set course of action within an hour? Not possible without an insane budget in security.

Again you're assuming he wasn't sticking around the school and it was locked down. Regardless the police should have done a check on each building then locked the doors, lock class room doors and allow for at least minimal security to be posted around or in side. Doing so would allow them to secure and protect some people while searching for the killer. Instead they decided to do nothing, not tell anyone, not get more police, not search the campus. They decided that he would run without knowing anything about the situation.

When nobody knows what the situation is, everything is assumtions. Atleast trying to avoid panic around the entire area made things easier to get a better picture and base a new decision around that. Having an entire school fleeing in terror COULD have led to an even worse outcome, but we don't know. We can't change time and events. We can't sit here and point fingers at those who had to take this call at such a small period. Maybe your solution could have been resolved even without panic, but the fact still remains that we don't know, and everything could have happened.

Why would he leave the campus?
With no information they decided that the asshole would leave. I don't get how logically they came to that conclusion and they will have to explain it to someone later.

With so many students in transit, being a student himself, would know where to go to kill more students outside the school itself. We don't know what they based their decision on, what facts, reports and/or sightings was reviewed. Judging it before we know what it was based is just arrogant.

Again, state school. 26,000 people. If their security and logistics were lacking then again Administration gets the blame.

Something nobody can be fully prepared for. What if the killer carried a hidden vial of supertoxic poison? Killing several within short time. Would you still blame the police for not maniging to keep everyone apart, and search anyone before any more damage had happened? There is no way to prepare for stuff like this, and as I said earlier, having several thousand officers in backup to deal with situations like this would blow away the budget of any school.

This could have happened anywhere really, be it at a workplace, or just a busy part of the town. You can't always have the manpower to deal with everything, anywhere, nomatter how many people are spread out.

You do have some valid points, I'll give you that, looks like we're just of different opinions.

[Galleleo]

Look at it this way Kolar:

Suppose, you have a neighbourhood with a lot of houses and it's like a reall community, and there is also a primary school somewhere in that neighbourhood. But it's still quite large, like to walk from one side to the other would take you up to 20 min. Now suppose in one off the houses 2 people got shot. No one really saw anything happen just saw someone run away. The police comes and it looks like whoever did it intentionally targeted those 2 people. Would you want that whole neighbourhood shut down? The primary school shut down? Everyone being locked inside their own houses, no one being able to go to work or whatever because it appears that someone shot 2 people he targeted and then took off?

Obviously they suspected that the shooter shot those 2 in that residential place on purpose, specifically those 2 and then took off. Now you have to assume all you know is 2 people got shot and the guy/girl who did it got away. There are no signs whatsoever to assume him being up to a mass murder. So do you wanna cancel all classes, knowing there are already students in transit on their way to classes, thus non of them knowing of the cancellation and a whole group getting stuck in front of closed door, while a different group stay in their dorms being a target there. With the possibility off perhaps even starting panic? And mind you, panic is easily created, only one nut case needs to come up with some crazy rumour and it's done.

I don't think they have done anything wrong.

What might be a good idea for the future though, and not only on Virg tech, is have a text alert system. In others words, when this were to happen you send a text out to ever student/professor in your network with whatever you want that message to say. I know their are tests over here in the Netherlands between Police and citizen to text them after something happens so they can keep their eye open for suspicious stuff, etc.