American Elections '08

[Cops]

How is the UN destorying America? This isn't a simple answer of dropping movies and walking away, this doesn't tell me anything.

You could attack this from several positions, one being economical reasons (which I'd shoot down), the other being forced into millitary campaigns (which I'd shoot down). Even the arguments you could be using you aren't using, there's a complete disconnect from what you believe, see, and hear to what you can prove. This doesn't make us as humans flawed seeking some sort of proof to back up your convictions, it's called being sensible.

There's an application process where you take what you've learned and what you believe and try to make a case for yourself. You need people you can quote, with maybe a link from where you got it from (try to make these sites credible). When saying something factual make sure it's common knowledge, ie 'parents greatly influence their children'. Common knowledge is not 'The U.N is destroying America', because if this was common knowledge we wouldn't have a U.N. When you try to sway or prove controversial beliefs you need a little more than some youtube websites and the beliefs of a few dead racist congressmen.

[HeavenSent]

You're like the guy that asks, "Hey man, tell me about that movie."

"I'll do better than that." replies the other guy, "I'll loan you a copy of the movie to see for yourself"

"But I don't want to watch the movie" says the first guy, "I just want you to tell me about it."

"Well it's just about a guy that gets deceived even after he's warned several times. Then ends up imprisoned for being at the wrong place at the wrong time... gets in a scuffle with one of the prison guards and is executed like an animal for slaughter. Then his body is thrown in a pit full of dead bodies. The end."

"No way! You're full of shit. That's not like anything I've heard of the movie."

"Well here's the video. See for yourself."

"No thanks, I'll just ask someone else who's seen it."

Basically, the problems with the U.N. and how it affects Americans is that it would mean that our Constitutional rights would be null & void. No Bill of Rights, No Habeas Corpus, No 2nd, 4th, 5th, etc. Amendment rights AT ALL. Its goal is a world government, where it would be the only authority among borderless nations. American soldiers, would have to answer to its world court... just for following the orders of their superior officer. American citizens would have to pay taxes to the U.N. And there would be no opportunity for people to speak out against its imposing injustice. Like Ron Paul says about forcing peace through a barrel of a gun, that's exactly how it would be around the world, only much worse. It's Global Totalitarianism & Marxist Socialism at its most horrifying and worst inevitable reality.

http://www.sweetliberty.org/wolves.htm

"a single consolidated government would become the most corrupt government on the earth." Thomas Jefferson

"There is no provision in the Charter itself that contemplates ending war. It is true the Charter provides for force to bring peace, but such use of force is itself war."
"Not only does the Charter Organization not prevent future wars, but it makes practically certain that we shall have future wars, and as to such wars it takes from us the power to declare them, to choose the side on which we shall fight, to determine what forces and military equipment we shall use in the war, and to control and command our sons who do the fighting." Ambassador J. Reuben Clark Jr. 1945

"I challenge the illusion that the UN is an instrument of peace."
"It could not be less of a cruel hoax if it had been organized in Hell for the sole purpose of aiding and abetting the destruction of the United States." Dr. J.B. Matthews

"I feel from the bottom of my heart that the adoption of the (U.N.) Charter ... will mean perpetuating war." Sen. William Langer (R-ND)

Princeton professor Richard A. Falk (CFR) admits: "There is nothing intrinsic about the idea of world government that precludes elitism, mass poverty, ecological decay, or even large-scale violence."

For the UN to become the basis for a fully-functioning world government, the "rule of law" in America (our constitutional system) and in every other nation must be destroyed.

"Rather than improve the standard of living for other nations, world government will mean a forced redistribution of all wealth and a sharp reduction in the standard of living for Americans."
"Strict regimentation will become commonplace, and there will no longer be any freedom of movement, freedom of worship, private property rights, free speech, or the right to publish."
"World government will mean that this once glorious land of opportunity will become another socialistic nightmare where no amount of effort will produce a just reward." John F. McManus - The Insiders - 1979

The Constitution specifies that Congress alone shall have the power to declare war. Yet, from Korea to Vietnam to the Persian Gulf, our nation has been on an increasingly slippery slope as a result of violating this constitutional provision.

"The provision of the Constitution giving the war-making power to Congress was dictated, as I understand it, by the following reasons.... Kings had always been involving and impoverishing their people in wars, pretending generally, if not always, that the good of the people was the object. This, our Convention understood to be the most oppressive of all Kingly oppressions; and they resolved to so frame the Constitution that no one man should hold the power of bringing this oppression upon us."Abraham Lincoln

"Not only has the United Nations become a travesty and farce as a unified system of political world government, but its meetings and operations have contributed greatly to international disunity, hostility, and bellicosity. Its meetings provide an unprecedented platform and sounding board for denunciation, vituperation, and bitter accusations." William Henry Chamberlain

http://www.getusout.org/artman/publi...icle_131.shtml

[Epinephrine]

Kolar and Cops:

Heavensent's got a point. What you also don't know is that Mattel is no simple toy company.

"Mattel has been working with the Rothchilds to brainwash humans since the dawn of time" - Dr. Concreteschlyrd

As well, although you don't see the truth but in fact George Bush eats babies:
"I'm a baby eater. An eater of babies" - George W. Bush
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-ce...ca_b_7137.html

This baby eating is in fact closely tied to the entire global warming lie that has been perpetrated by the highest of levels in order to you to stop your god given right of driving a car.

You don't believe me now, but the next time your children play with a Mattel product, walk to the mall instead of drive, you better lock up the babies, because the Rothchilds are coming after you!

DO NOT BE BLIND TO THE TRUTH.

[HeavenSent]

Kolar and Cops:

Heavensent's got a point. What you also don't know is that Mattel is no simple toy company.

"Mattel has been working with the Rothchilds to brainwash humans since the dawn of time" - Dr. Concreteschlyrd

As well, although you don't see the truth but in fact George Bush eats babies:
"I'm a baby eater. An eater of babies" - George W. Bush
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-ce...ca_b_7137.html

This baby eating is in fact closely tied to the entire global warming lie that has been perpetrated by the highest of levels in order to you to stop your god given right of driving a car.

You don't believe me now, but the next time your children play with a Mattel product, walk to the mall instead of drive, you better lock up the babies, because the Rothchilds are coming after you!

DO NOT BE BLIND TO THE TRUTH.

Why are you guys even bothering with Heavensent? He's already proven himself as reliable as Tone.

STFU hypocrite.
Go back to playing with your anime dolls. That's obviously the only reality you can handle.

[Cops]

You're like the guy that asks, "Hey man, tell me about that movie."

"I'll do better than that." replies the other guy, "I'll loan you a copy of the movie to see for yourself"

"But I don't want to watch the movie" says the first guy, "I just want you to tell me about it."

"Well it's just about a guy that gets deceived even after he's warned several times. Then ends up imprisoned for being at the wrong place at the wrong time... gets in a scuffle with one of the prison guards and is executed like an animal for slaughter. Then his body is thrown in a pit full of dead bodies. The end."

"No way! You're full of shit. That's not like anything I've heard of the movie."

"Well here's the video. See for yourself."

"No thanks, I'll just ask someone else who's seen it."

The thing is I don't want to see a movie, I want you to explain to me how you've come up with such ludicrous conclusions, well I know you're mimicking the opinions of those videos but are those United States vs United Nations videos even credible? No, anyone can upload a video to youtube. Stop wasting my time and confusing the point, which is Tell me how the U.N destroys America. No more videos, no more links to crappy sites, I want you to make a case of why this hurts America.

Basically, the problems with the U.N. and how it affects Americans is that it would mean that our Constitutional rights would be null & void. No Bill of Rights, No Habeas Corpus, No 2nd, 4th, 5th, etc. Amendment rights AT ALL. Its goal is a world government, where it would be the only authority among borderless nations. American soldiers, would have to answer to its world court... just for following the orders of their superior officer. American citizens would have to pay taxes to the U.N. And there would be no opportunity for people to speak out against its imposing injustice. Like Ron Paul says about forcing peace through a barrel of a gun, that's exactly how it would be around the world, only much worse. It's Global Totalitarianism & Marxist Socialism at its most horrifying and worst inevitable reality.

Thank you, it only took you 20 posts to answer my question and actually say something without dropping videos and ignoring the fact that most logical people are laughing at you behind your back, I knew you'd finally state an opinion even if its more or less you being a sycophant.

where it would be the only authority among borderless nations. American soldiers, would have to answer to its world court... just for following the orders of their superior officer

you want to shoot a tribe of defenseless people, of course you should answer to someone. Nazi soldiers were just 'following' orders, how can you even dare say they shouldn't answer to their crimes against humanity. If you think American soldiers should not be accountable than neither should the nazis.

You speak so vividly of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and Freedoms but the point is to insure that all people of all countries rights are protected under some legislation. Once this is gone, people can and will justify other's lives by saying their freedoms and rights are not universally protected. 'An American has rights where as a person from Zimbabwe does not'.

Like Ron Paul says about forcing peace through a barrel of a gun, that's exactly how it would be around the world, only much worse. It's Global Totalitarianism & Marxist Socialism at its most horrifying and worst inevitable reality.

The United Nations is known for diplomacy, they do have a branch of the UN called the UNEF which responds to crisis's and genocide all across the world. If genocide is happening it is the UN's responsibility to step in, this is a good thing, which all people from all countries can adhere to. Plus you know just as well as I do that America can veto anything they damn well please, for a country who claims to be the fighters of freedom and democracy you sure don't know how to utilize your own power.

Since we can talk history, I hope you do not forget the UN did not sanction a war between Iraq and America, they wanted to see this situation ended in diplomacy. It was America that wanted to force peace and democracy through the barrel of a gun, not just in Iraq but also in Vietnam, and how many other countless countries?

[HeavenSent]

OK i'm done.. I won't bother your sleep on this issue anymore. <_<

[Kolar]

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights does not null the Bill of Rights or the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It is an advisory document which provides a frame work, it's not an enforceable piece of law. We know it isn't because we still have shitty places like China, Sudan, Saudi Arabia and Iran just to name a few who govern their people by a different (and arguable more barbaric) standard. The UN is a forum for the governments of the world to come to a consensus on issues, no one country can solve problems like global warming, poverty or war alone.

We already live in a boarder-less world. War is now terrorism, poverty is now the result of shifts in world economics and poor government, environmental degradation is now a global problem (hence global warming). Terrorism is also a problem that goes beyond the scope of one nation, this requires a legal frame work that extends beyond the reaches of a national boarder, and is legitimately recognized.

When you're pressed to provide some backing to your statements the thing NOT TO DO is accuse people of being close minded or lacking in intellectual ability. That only serves to hamper the quality of discourse and damages your image.

[Cops]

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights does not null the Bill of Rights or the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It is an advisory document which provides a frame work, it's not an enforceable piece of law.

The implications of it not existing can lead to mass deaths and excusable apathy. Anything that can be justified will be justified.

[Epinephrine]

STFU hypocrite.
Go back to playing with your anime dolls. That's obviously the only reality you can handle.

Are you so blind you cannot accept that the next time your daughter walks instead of drives, baby eating is not far away? Mattel and countless other corporations have already ruined her, yours and all of our minds. BE OPEN TO THE TRUTH.

[Cops]

Are you so blind you cannot accept that the next time your daughter walks instead of drives, baby eating is not far away? Mattel and countless other corporations have already ruined her, yours and all of our minds. BE OPEN TO THE TRUTH.

Truth is telling me I should really watch the last legion.

[Vatican Assassin]

Common knowledge is not 'The U.N is destroying America', because if this was common knowledge we wouldn't have a U.N. When you try to sway or prove controversial beliefs you need a little more than some youtube websites and the beliefs of a few dead racist congressmen.

you keep saying the guy is racist, everything else aside I think heavensent has a good point: its irrelevent. everyone has sinned, you can dig up something bad about anyone. if we were in court, and you were forming a case like you say, bringing up the fact that the senator was racist would be stricken from the record as irrelevent, please stop bringing it up. stick to the argument he makes.

[Kolar]

It goes to the character of the person Vati. Like I said before you wouldn't consult David Duke or Pat Robertson about issues of foreign policy because they're pretty terrible people with extremist views. For someone to be so warped on domestic issues to think the K*K is a legitimate and good organization I have to believe their views on international matters has to be as equally misinformed.

[Cops]

you keep saying the guy is racist, everything else aside I think heavensent has a good point: its irrelevent. everyone has sinned, you can dig up something bad about anyone. if we were in court, and you were forming a case like you say, bringing up the fact that the senator was racist would be stricken from the record as irrelevent, please stop bringing it up. stick to the argument he makes.

I said I don't take his opinions to heart because of who he is, and then I even stated regardless if the congressman was racist he may still have opinions which are correct and well-informed. I basically accepted that the man may not have been such an ass-bag, I was open to the idea that his words would be fully accepted in accordance with who he was. I conceded HeavenSent's quote and allowed him to continue on his path to 'showing me' how it truly was destroying America.

But then again all he's done is tell me that two dead congressman said the U.N is bad along with some questionable videos, this isn't good enough for me to even take seriously.

Proving that The U.N is destroying America is not as easy as quoting some congressman and then saying that's it, he said it so it must be true. Trying to make me believe something so questionable as the U.N destroying America cannot be solved or answered by Youtube videos, it takes actual work and observation and then once he has a few points he can express them, and he finally did. His major point was that soldiers should not be accountable for their actions, which could basically say 'well then neither should the nazis, they were only following orders'.

[Epinephrine]

Truth is telling me I should really watch the last legion.

Aishwarya Rai $$

[Vatican Assassin]

We already live in a boarder-less world. War is now terrorism, poverty is now the result of shifts in world economics and poor government, environmental degradation is now a global problem (hence global warming). Terrorism is also a problem that goes beyond the scope of one nation, this requires a legal frame work that extends beyond the reaches of a national boarder, and is legitimately recognized.

When you're pressed to provide some backing to your statements the thing NOT TO DO is accuse people of being close minded or lacking in intellectual ability. That only serves to hamper the quality of discourse and damages your image.

you're right at the end kolar, but i think you do also tend to say a lot of things without backing them up. we live in a boarderless world because war is terrorism? i still see boarders between countries, don't you? poverty is now the result of shifts in world economics? i'm not entirely sure what that means, could be true, but i don't think it makes sense to say such huge statements and then berate heavensent for not backing up his own opinions.

just so you know, i think paul and heaven are incorrect on this issue: if we pull out of the UN, we're fucked. everyone already hates us enough already. if we leave the UN, every country will be in a league and we will be excluded, and I don't want any countries looking to China for help.

edit: if you don't have any opinions on this subject, and just want to chime in with something mean and not funny toward someone you usually disagree with, please save your breath.