War?

[Pressure Drop]

God damn why the fuck does everything get derailed to the point of sheer stupidity by morons proclaiming their country is the best it has single handedly won every war ever as if it even means anything?

Get over it

WW2 was a terrible event, the positives being only that we can see “civilized” nations are capable of terrible acts … and we need to work together to prevent anything like that reoccurring.

I’m sick off kids several generations away from the actual war boasting about it like they did something.

Did USA help win the war? Yea it did. Did Russia help win the war? YES it did. Did Britain? AGAIN WITH THE YES!

Not only is it all a moot point who was the most important nation as it took all 3 of these nations as well as many other nations who contributed very importantly and off course luck as well to resolve the war.. Not only that but the allies also committed acts no one should ever be proud off, they did what they deemed needed to be done and that involved bombing many cities into the ground with huge civilian casualties etc. etc …


It was 70 years ago and none of us did anything so instead of boasting who did what perhaps learn the lesson of why we need to strengthen the UN and diplomatic avenues rather than turn to war at the drop of the hat. The actions taken by Russia recently and also USA this decade have both undermined the UN rather than make it stronger.

It’s tough because even when the UN does sanctions etc it can often not make the corrupt government change making it seem ineffective and hurt the people hence the oil for aid policy towards iraq. However a better solution is needed for all, so rather than stand idly by and watching corrupt governments like those in Zimbabwe run the country into the ground there should be more international pressure and also rewards etc for positive change.

[Exalt]

But you deceived yourself into thinking that your military power does, or ever will, be of any real significance. I can speak out my mind, you can't use your force to ever make me change my mind. And you simply don't have the reason to ever do.
Do you really think we care if you go fight another war in Eastern Europe? Just because your people are always hungry for war, doesn't mean you actually have any real power in this world.
For the sake of your arrogance I wouldn't mind seeing you fighting Russia while trying to occupy Iraq, Afghanistan and being fronted by Iran there too.
Your army isn't worth shit anywhere in those countries, your only resort will be annihilating everyone that stands against you. And while you are at that, more and more countries will be.

look you obviously know nothing about history, or you would realize the US was never a WAR hungry nation... far removed from the centuries of war Europe's culture is based on....

just look at WW2.... we didn't join your European war until way later, and only because we did not want to "interfere" with other peoples business.... an accusation that gets thrown in the face of the US all the time now

here's why we didn't join in WW2 til far later:

"The Neutrality Acts were a series of laws that were passed by the United States Congress in the 1930s, in response to the growing turmoil in Europe and Asia that eventually led to World War II. They were spurred by the growth in isolationism and non-interventionism in the US following its costly involvement in World War I, and sought to ensure that the US would not become entangled again in foreign conflicts.

The legacy of the Neutrality Acts in the 1930s was widely regarded as having been generally negative: they made no distinction between aggressor and victim, treating both equally as "belligerents"; and they limited the US government's ability to aid Britain against Nazi Germany, until the formal declaration of war in December 1941 rendered them irrelevant."

now let me explain what this means to you.... we got involved and were the peacekeepers before WW2, and decided after WW1 in which Europe instigated yet ANOTHER war that we were forced into, we decided to back off and let you europeans fuck your own shit up..... then when it came down to it europe was destroying the entire world with their stupid conflicts, so we ended your fucked up war and brought peace... yes... "THE UNITED STATES BROUGHT PEACE" here i quoted that for you so you can keep that to heart when you think about WW2 and how your country was in ruins because of EUROPE, not the USA

nowadays....the US, after the whole Iraq/Afghanistan ordeal (which afghanistan was justified and forced upon the US due to the terrorists, and anyone that claims its not is retarded) will most likely create something like this again, if only in practice and not in law... this will basically allow free reign for other countries to do whatever the hell they please... guess what that means once again? Europe will probably fuck themselves up AGAIN like ALWAYS... your countries never learn... 2 world wars that completely ruined your countries for long periods of time, and yet still countries like Russia do shit to provoke war....

and you know what? you are allowing them too, just like hitler

and history repeats itself.... and its repeating itself

the US wont interfere because we are going to go isolationist again, mainly due to europe constantly bitching about us "interfering" and also because we don't have the money to help at this point, so probably WW3 will start again eventually, and Europe, like always, will spark it up

I'm just real tired of Europe not being able to handle their own continent, and then bitching at the US to not "interfere" until they are in desperate need, and then beg us to "save the day." You want us out of all our bases and go back to USA? Fine, I hope we do. But take care of yourselves then, something you cannot do.



I have just one question for the representatives on these boards from countries in Europe like Finland etc and all those countries that have UHC and tons of government benefits: How do you think your country can afford all those government benefits?

I'll tell you why.... because your countries do not have significant military and do not spend a large percentage of GDP on military. If the USA spent the same percentage of GDP on military as you do, we would have the best standard of living in the world by FAR. UHC, government paid universities, anything and everything you can imagine, because we then would HAVE the money to support those things.

Wonder why we don't? Because someone has to be big brother and protect the little nations from the bully. Either we keep protecting you by spending trillions of dollars a year on military, or you learn to protect yourselves, and then all of a sudden you lose all of those glorious government benefits you all brag about in forums. It's simple.

[Doc Flabby]

By the end of 2008 the deficit it will be 37.9% of GDP

Which is still far less than the UKs deficit of like over 45% of GDP while high its hardly anything to write home about... 40% is commenly defined as what should be the maximum you can borrow to and higher and you risk inflation problems (which incidently the UK is now starting to experience)

are you serious? LOL?

i like how you OVERestimate Europe, gj.

Europe was already done for before the US even joined the war, and you had no chance whatsoever to beat germany if the US never joined, sorry buddy, learn a thing or two about history before you talk to me again, fool

I hate to agree with Exalt but hes right, ww2 was only won because the US became involved. Any history book that says otherwise is trying to cover up your own nations failings.

The UK was literally months if not weeks from a conditional surrender untill the US got involved and helped prop our nation up with billions of dollers of loans (albiet you guys in USA made a killing on those loans we only paid them back in the 1990s) Our country was cripped economically in the long term, the damage is still being repaired now, and we are no longer an empire, nor have the influence or power we had before. Its very telling that Germany and France recovered better and has had the stronger economy after the war, they were far less damanged by it.

Most of Europe is run by pussies now (as back then), too scared there oil or gas might get cut off by russia to do anything. What alot of people in Europe don't seem to understand it is in Russia culture to respect Strength. If you don't show strength to Russia they will not respect you and they will trample all over you.

[Ayano]

It's based on current and estimated federal spending.

Aka, biased. Everyone just loves to believe the US is sinking uncontrollably when stocks are saying otherwise. The stocks are volatile, but the trends are concrete indicators of what's to come.

[Da1andonly]

finland would've won ww2 on it's own

[Kolar]

Yea, after Iraq we're just going to go into another war without any form of recovery. That's a fat exagerated statistic, biased number logic. Knowing the economy it it's current state, we'll just happily sink deeper for 80 years? I thought you'd know better.

It's based on current and estimated federal spending. Not a full scale invasion and occupation but something smaller could still happen with Iran before he's gone. A lot of those people are still heading up McCain's foreign policy.

[Ayano]

By the end of 2008 the deficit it will be 37.9% of GDP. By 2080 it will be 700% of the GDP. Iraq is sinking the boat a lot faster and so would any future wars the Neocons want to cook up. That fact might only push those on the extreme right to call for military intervention while the US is still the only superpower. If you guys want Medicare, social security and other major budget items then someone needs to step in, not ideologically driven left or right to balance the budget, look to the priorities and cut wasteful spending. You can't run two Wars, fund medicare, social security, HLS ect... and then let everyone off the hook with multiple tax breaks and refunds.

Yea, after Iraq we're just going to go into another war without any form of recovery. That's a fat exagerated statistic, biased number logic. Knowing the economy it it's current state, we'll just happily sink deeper for 80 years? I thought you'd know better.

As for the neo-cons, they lost congress, and soon the oval office. No future republican president will start a war for circumstantial reasons as the way with bush. I found it ironic actually, G.H.B. was hesitant to go into Bosnia as we watched it happen; it took Clinton, a democrat for us to intervene; then again I suppose the gulf war did need a recovery period.

[Kolar]

China is a communist nation, but it's admitted in the past to allowing free trade in special 'economic' zones to compete with America's economy. If you go to the rural areas, communist party leaders hold considerable influence and are structured in the fashion of the soviet nomenklatura. They are aiming for a democratic conversion with their half-assed 'centralized democracy' due to the atrocities that it can't afford to show within a highly transparent system. They are however starting to gain ground here with it's state sponsored paper doing more mud raking on lower officials, heaven knows that they won't touch the politburo and never it's standing committee.

As for Russia; they're converting, but slowly. I'd compare to a born-again Christian losing faith; it's as if a huge barrier's been lifted and they're relishing in the luxuries. Corruption is rife, it's like capitalism unchecked to a degree.


As for the poor spending, Yes Iraq is a money drain; but even without the war the US cannot afford a proficient UHC. Privatization has it's victims and rewards; rewards being treatment options, something UHC lacks. The only UHC that works well is that in the UK because they run privatized systems along side. That being, if you have cancer, you'd better get your wallet out if you want to live rather than pray to the Queen that UHC saves you.

The CPC has no interest in giving up power or changing the dynamics of China. They are not a Communist nation in any sense of the word. Since the 70s they have instituted reforms that give greater freedom of private enterprise and a move away from collective agriculture. But there is little to no meaningful political reform and the CPC is not above interfering with the private sector. Chavez's Venezuela is a good example of a society heading in the opposite direction. Besides having a cult of personality and using populism to an extreme degree he is implementing agrarian reforms, wealth redistribution and clamping down on the opposition, extreme left wing politics. I don't think it's heading in the other direction politically for either China or Russia. Both still believe in a strong national state.


By the end of 2008 the deficit it will be 37.9% of GDP. By 2080 it will be 700% of the GDP. Iraq is sinking the boat a lot faster and so would any future wars the Neocons want to cook up. That fact might only push those on the extreme right to call for military intervention while the US is still the only superpower. If you guys want Medicare, social security and other major budget items then someone needs to step in, not ideologically driven left or right to balance the budget, look to the priorities and cut wasteful spending. You can't run two Wars, fund medicare, social security, HLS ect... and then let everyone off the hook with multiple tax breaks and refunds.

The US can not afford to fund a Universal System like you said but a lot can be done within a private-only system to clean up corruption and mismanagement. A lot of overhead costs can be eliminated by centralizing and merging instead of out sourcing operations. The focus has to be on the health and longevity of their clients and not only on making the business profitable, in theory that is how it works... they live longer to make the co-payments and other payments.

There should always be a private system available to people if they choose to use it. Neither works perfectly, 47 million in the US are uninsured but many go days and weeks waiting for special treatment up here.

[Ayano]

Communism is dead as an ideology..... Russia is reemerging economically because of such policies....

China is a communist nation, but it's admitted in the past to allowing free trade in special 'economic' zones to compete with America's economy. If you go to the rural areas, communist party leaders hold considerable influence and are structured in the fashion of the soviet nomenklatura. They are aiming for a democratic conversion with their half-assed 'centralized democracy' due to the atrocities that it can't afford to show within a highly transparent system. They are however starting to gain ground here with it's state sponsored paper doing more mud raking on lower officials, heaven knows that they won't touch the politburo and never it's standing committee.

As for Russia; they're converting, but slowly. I'd compare to a born-again Christian losing faith; it's as if a huge barrier's been lifted and they're relishing in the luxuries. Corruption is rife, it's like capitalism unchecked to a degree.


As for the poor spending, Yes Iraq is a money drain; but even without the war the US cannot afford a proficient UHC. Privatization has it's victims and rewards; rewards being treatment options, something UHC lacks. The only UHC that works well is that in the UK because they run privatized systems along side. That being, if you have cancer, you'd better get your wallet out if you want to live rather than pray to the Queen that UHC saves you.

[Exalt]

I know enough about History, you apparently don't, but I aint here to school you in it.

history of lies maybe, go relearn the truth in a real institute

[Heroin Bob]

if UHC works......why do canadians come the the US when they get sick and pay out of pocket? why are there constant news stories about people who have brain tumors in Canada but have to wait and wait and wait, JUST TO GET AN MRI.


UHC = death

[Galleleo]

are you serious? LOL?

i like how you OVERestimate Europe, gj.

Europe was already done for before the US even joined the war, and you had no chance whatsoever to beat germany if the US never joined, sorry buddy, learn a thing or two about history before you talk to me again, fool

I know enough about History, you apparently don't, but I aint here to school you in it.

[DoTheFandango]

Dude, I don't know, I fucking hate Russia, I don't like Georgia, and I think South Ossetia is to blame for all of this. No one knows who really started it, and I don't really care, but if this is how Russia chooses to act I'm fucking ready for WWIII

[Ayano]

... were very unpatriotic towards our former European influences

*coughFrancecough*

[Kolar]

Says the country that contains the 2nd largest reservoir of oil in the world.

In addition, Canada doesn't need to maintain a large military presence overseas. Sure the US could cut back on this as everyone just hates us being there, but if the US's influence wanes in conflict stricken areas, the world will bleed a couple more kiloliters of blood.

I'd rather have a somewhat transparent greedy capitalist nation influencing the world rather than a secretive communist country; or an opaque, disgrunted, former socialist government securing buffer land against a fellow democratic nation during the modern age.

There is a difference between cutting back on deployed forces and cutting back on spending. I think all that people want is political change to happen where we don't have fucking idiots deciding where, when and for how long they are deployed. A lot in this world would have to change for the US Military to cut back.

Communism is dead as an ideology. While there is a propensity and want for the state in their lives their economies are not structured like the Soviet Union. China has delivered millions out of poverty with free market policies. Russia is reemerging economically because of such policies. It's not as easy to pin them to a certain end of the spectrum but I do agree with you they are dangerous states. But because the US is a democracy even in name only today there's always a possibility of change. And to give you guys some credit Bush's approval rating is barely 25% and Congress even less. Last I checked Putin had 70%+ approval through the entire Litvinenko incident.