John McCain vs Barack Obama Mega-Politic-Thread of super fun awesomeness.

[Lucon]

I don't have anything meaningful to add, so I'll just say this: Jerome really loves em dashes.

[Cops]

Not that I care if people outside the U.S. comment on our election and govt. problems we face in the States. I also do the same for other countries....just look at the UK and the Gordon Brown PM status...will he survive or get ousted?

Too many people living in the States, that have never been outside the States, let alone the state they live in, have closed minds as to what & how other countries, governments & people view the U.S. in general.

It's especially interesting to hear it from our Canadian neighbors, as the impact on what happens here will have direct impact on their country as well in many areas.

I've really got to stick to talking to people with some knowledge on what is being discussed. But back to your post, thanks for showing some interest in other countries outside of America. You really don't know anything about where you're from until you've been somewhere else.

When the Canadian dollar became on par with the American dollar it did two things, established our currency as a strong vibrant economy, and also put our auto industries into huge jeopardy. To be fair our auto industry hasn't been doing well for awhile, but the benefit to Ford and GM having plants here was that they could pay 60 cents on the dollar for us to build cars then ship them down to the states, actually a few of our plants in Ontario don't even build cars just parts.

Right now people aren't buying cars for a few reasons, they don't have the money, and as far as fuel prices go it's kind of stupid to buy a Ford SUV, which the plant around the corner from my house builds. The governments fueled 'some' money into keeping some of these plants afloat but this is truly a dying industry, I can see how it can be saved but it's definitely in the middle of the ocean drowning.

Here's the other issue, some of these plants are located in towns a few hours away from Toronto in small communities that rely heavily on these jobs to fuel local economies. These towns and cities are struggling to replace jobs in a town that relies solely on Ford and GM workers money. These towns and communities are destined to fail unless they can create jobs within this community, and the truth is they really can't do that much. As sad as it sounds the best jobs people will be able to find in these communities is government funded, grocery stores, fast food, beer store workers, etc. Think about it logically, when people run out of money they spend the most amount of their money on food, at least a rational person would, so every other business in this community that has no real necessity to a person's survival will collapse within itself.

The real problems will start when this type of community will start dropping their little bit of money they have into drugs and alcohol, bringing their reputation and house prices down. At that point you either jump ship or sink.

[kthx]

Cops, shut the fuck up, you liberal douche. Nobody cares what you want to do with America, go back to douching around in Canadian politics and smoking your blunt or whatever the hell it is that you do.

[Cops]

haha, you're such a fucking moron.

[Jerome Scuggs]

Our local GM plant just got neutered from 2,000 to 800 jobs, and that's been pretty shit.

This whole thing is starting to wear me down, physically. It's not liberals or conservatives or americans or canadians. It's something beyond that. I have my opinion on what it is - and as time goes on I hope that I'm wrong - but I think that we should all try to take a step back and try to figure this shit out.

kthx, America's been pretty adamant about sticking our dicks into every asshole we can find, we're going to have to accept that the world is going to thus expect to have a say in our politics - because our politics affect everyone. Our founding fathers, far from being "isolationist", were being prudent. But we've lost that message and now we're going to have to take others' accounts into view.

Likewise, though - Cops, while conservatives have been very crucial in leading America overseas as "pre-emptive" protection, liberals have been crucial in leading America inwards - sticking our dicks into our citizens' assholes, in the name of pre-emptive protection.

I try to understand where people are coming from - and try to understand why they have their views. I think it's the least I can do at this point in time. Do you want to see why? Go catch c-span - listen to our politicians argue. They all have good points, and bad points - but instead of sorting out the good from the bad, they are randomly lumped into the two political divides.

Come on. Seriously. You guys are at eachothers' throats - we all are, really - over bullshit that shouldn't be here. Kthx is a hilarious fuckin dude, kind of a dick but that's not necessarily bad - and Cops, you've definitely got a level of compassion and humane-ness that I respect, and it's why I've tried to look at things from a human perspective instead of some calculating, cost-beneficial economic perspective.

We all have insights and I think that I'm not sounding too unrealistic when I say that there are now things afoot that require people to start looking at things outside of the scope of our traditional views and ideas - because they have seemed to fail to stop a very potentially serious situation.

[kthx]

Well there is a difference between conservatism and neo-conservatism.

I believe that the government should protect our:

Borders
Culture
Language

That is it.

[Jerome Scuggs]

Well there is a difference between conservatism and neo-conservatism.

I believe that the government should protect our:

Borders
Culture
Language

That is it.

Our culture's existence is dependent on the other two not being petrified!

[Cops]

Jerome;

I don't think in terms of right wing, left wing, republican, democrat, or any other way kthx wants to polarize human existence. Life has too many shades of grey to paint the world in only two colors. I don't think all liberals are douches, or that all republicans are frigid and cold.

I can have a completely rational and coherent conversation about North America's auto industry, but by expressing the hardships we're all facing right now in no way am I trying to tell you what the hell to do with your country. I'm convinced he didn't even read my post in the first place.

[kthx]

and it's kind of funny that you claim I mimic opinions

I don't think all liberals are douches

Posted By kthx
Hey, I am finally unbanned by douchebag liberal Kolar so now I can finally post my views again.

Posted by kthx
You are such a liberal douchebag Kolar. And here is my top 10 list why.
4. Your a liberal douchebag.

Posted By kthx
YOUR NOT A FUCKING FORUM STAFFER YOU LIBERAL DOUCHEBAG

Posted By kthx
Cops, shut the fuck up, you liberal douche. Nobody cares what you want to do with America, go back to douching around in Canadian politics and smoking your blunt or whatever the hell it is that you...

Posted By kthx
Look at liberal douche cops, ignoring everything,...

------------------

Yeah... you don't mimic anyone on the forums, moron.

[Cops]

Jesus christ, I'm saying I don't think all liberals are douchebags. Where as every other word out of your mouth is liberal douchebag, and you just pulled out the proof to prove my point.

If you want to have a rational and respectful conversation then that'd be perfectly fine with me, but you've got to learn how to be more approachable. I'm not even sure you want to have a conversation, with anyone for that matter, you just shout out your opinions at people and attack them when they have fundamental differences with what you're saying. Regardless if you decide to approach people like a fucking person or not, you've at least got to realize there's no point dragging this through the mud like so many times before.

[Squeezer]

I'm watching the debate and I'm terrified that everyone is so comfortable with the idea of reigniting the Cold War. It's like we must be involved in Russia's conflict simply because we have a past of heightened tensions. It seems like the world is ready for another big dramatic show. I need to stop watching politics. It fills my head with polarizing comparisons of people. Those people care about health care, and those people need to be bombed, and these ones are the best because they're Americans.

It really scares me

Also to apply for Canadian citizenship, is there like a form online or something?

[Cops]

You walk up the border and drop a 5, and you're in. Actually some of our borders aren't patrolled, for good reason too, there's no real point.

I'm watching it too and I think Mccain and Obama both answered the question fairly, you can't say yes because then you're sending up flags that America and Russia are leading to a direct conflict, and if you say no then you're saying everything Russia has done is completely fine and acceptable.

edit: Jerome

I've thought about your post once again, and that in itself lies the fundamental problem with Wark, he doesn't re-consider what he believes. He doesn't think or question what he knows, the guy believes he is solely right and that he is the most informed person on any given subject. There's not much you can do with people like that, if the person is stubborn and short sided then they either need to change or you can ignore them. I don't usually choose the latter of the two, I know that. As advised to me from the general public of the forum it's better to say 'fuck you, you're a moron', instead of actually explaining to that person why they're a moron. And sometimes I do go with that method other times I'll throw a jab in there. But to be honest the last thing I want to do is get into another fundamental debate with someone who can't admit they may be wrong.

The greatest thing about knowledge and self growth is every god damn day you're learning. I'm not who I was a year ago, or two years ago. That doesn't mean I've completely changed who I am or what I believe in. It means that my personal progress as an individual has changed, and beliefs I've had have been contested with new facts. This is life, we grow, we learn, we analyze, but when an individual doesn't believe in, or shows no ability to grow outside of their shell then I really have no interest in that individual.

A lot of our ability to know and develop our ideas comes from our humanistic ability to know things, we want information. I want to know what you believe in, why you believe in it, what has made you think that way, does it even make sense? Can I relate to what you believe in? Do I understand where you're coming from? I'm constantly asking questions, every day, so it's no wonder that someone who I was on several squads with (wark) or read hundreds of my posts doesn't know the first thing about me. His beliefs about me extend no further than a socialist who smokes lots of weed, which is completely backwards of who I actually am. I don't think he or a lot of people have really said much of anything on this forum, there's a lot of people who haven't taken the time to show more than one side of themselves, and those tend to be the people who can only see people as one sided. Which is exactly what you were talking about earlier, like has too many colours to paint the canvas 'black' or 'white'.

[Epinephrine]

I saw the debate and was not impressed. Obama did a much better job than McCain of course, but I still get the sense that he is much too vague about things as he's always been. McCain meanwhile was pathetic, as he mostly didn't directly answer questions (which Obama did) but instead kept on bringing up stump points of earmarks, and bringing up negative points about Obama (which Obama largely refuted each time) instead of explaining why his own position is the better one. I especially like McCain's answer to 'how will you reform healthcare' where he used Obama's point about using electronic records, and then he brought up some odd points about how America needs more walk in clinics as well, and finally to the 'we need to fix it, and so we will' without actually saying how he would fix it. The whole 'just trust me' attitude is pretty weak.

[Cops]

I'lll be fair, Obama wasn't that impressive either. I don't think this debate did anything for either campaign.

[DankNuggets]

i blame the format: here's why

both candidates - especially McCain - have a way of attempting to refute their opponents by just saying the opposite of what they originally said.

they weren't given a chance to debate each other really, just hope they got to answer the question second, or first if they had the same idea.

Big example: Obama goes on to talk about how if we know where Bin Laden is in Pakistan, we're going to go kill him with or without the approval of Pakistan. McCain's turn comes up and he says "Obama says he'll invade Pakistan". His turn ends, and Obama interrupts Brokaw to say "I feel i need to follow that up". He eventually gets to, and says "I did NOT say I was going to invade Pakistan. I said ..." Queue the next answer from McCain: "Obama said he'll invade Pakistan..."

Was McCain just not listening to Obama while he was talking, or does he think that the audience wasn't listening? Because it's fucking retarded to say he said something he didn't, when he said it like 2 minutes ago. On top of that, after he refuted it, McCain repeated himself. He might be able to fool some people with tactics like that, but I find it extremely patronizing -- I just heard him say the opposite 2 minutes ago, twice.

I think McCain lost the support of people on the fence because of his perfomance. I don't know that Obama gained anyone from this, but he's slowly looking more and more 'presidential' as the pundits put it and I agree.

I did like McCain's proposal for housing issues, but it's improbable that it'd go through (like Obama's healthcare too for that matter). I didn't like his healthcare vouchers at all. Doesn't help people who would be denied, doesn't stop the pre-existing conditions (something i know first hand about) and 5,000 dollars would hardly cover any necessary medical work (though it'd pay those premiums to the companies even if you didn't use it).

The tax thing needs to come back and bite McCain in the ass. He keeps bringing up Obama's 94 votes to 'raise' taxes. Well factcheck.org completely disagrees, stating that out of those 94 votes, possibly 11 were for higher taxes -- and only on those making a million dollars or more. His cuts are for 95% of Americans -- a number which seems to not kill McCain's "94 votes" arguement when it should stomp it out like a flaming bag of poo.