WTF Japan? Epic thread of problems

[Izor]

Applies to anyone with a 'holier than thou' mentality when approaching the topic. I'm not defending the Japanese but I'm saying that their problems which are humorous to me are none of my business or anyone elses here, really. Fix your own third world country

[Vatican Assassin]

This still has no relevance to America. Fuck Japan and their culture. Anyone who makes games like Ikaruga can die in a room the size of a king sized mattress imo.

So by saying this, what you really mean is this...

What some newbie said about 'its a different culture, so of course you cant hold them to our standards' or something to that nature is right, but he put it nicer than I did.

Hey Paul O, what comes after the backslide again?

[Epinephrine]

Cultural relativism aside, even most Japanese don't know why there are so many Hikikomoris.

[Galleleo]

This is a common sense lesson to all of you not to go reading in bullshit from articles you find online. Euro countries for the most part as I expected, are well behind the standard set by (North) America and Asian countries. I'd be interested to see an updated chart, but I doubt anything changed too drastically.

Let me give you a common sense lesson. This whole standard set you are talking about... yeah, doesn't impress me.

The Dutch, as you can see on your awesome graph are way down the list, get 6 to 8 weeks of vacation (at least, I think that is the standard for most jobs) a year and as far as working time is considered, we are low.

However, I read a study last year that was conducted world wide, and the Dutch actually have the highest productivity rating world wide. We might not work as much as your awesome standard, but we get more done in less time. In other words we are better at it than you, now get off your fucking high horse and try matching those standards. I am glad I don't have to live of a 1 week vacation a year. Our average work week has been brought down to 36 hours I think, but like I said, everyone has a right to 6 to 8 weeks of vacation a year.

I have tons of respect for the Japanese culture, their work ethic, their sense of honour and respect for each other, is something most western countries will never be able to achieve. These things are fucked up, but like I said % wise, Japan is not the country with the most suicides. But let's not forget that it is actually the Japanese that updated your American way of business, if it wasn't for the Japanese you would still be doing your shitty costly way of producing stuff.

[project dragon]

radiation

[Epinephrine]

And is there any statistic saying what the average work day is in Japan? Because you all are acting like because some asshole news article said that its not uncommon for people to work 12 hour shifts, that everyone in Japan works 60 hour+ weeks. Heres a clue: we have people that work 12 hour shifts here...they work panama shifts usually so that they're not overburdened. I consider America to be one of the hardest working modernized countries overall because I heard that most Euro countries have 35 hour work weeks and know they have more holidays.

EDIT: Upon researching this, I found some statistics from 2004 on wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_time

Japan is a weird place. In the past people used to have 'lifetime employment', so everyone worked long hours. With the recession in the past 15 years more or less, there are a lot of part-time workers these days (mostly young people, who have little to no prospect of getting real jobs unless they are super smart/motivated, and even then because housing is so expensive, only the most successful can move out of their parents house, thus people who are not so smart/motivated basically lose all hope and become shut ins).

For people who DO have real jobs (japan not much into agriculture or manufacturing... robots do that, so a lot of people have office jobs), the stereotype is the Japanese 'salaryman'. Basically they work 12 hour work days with lots of unofficial overtime. This is overtime that they don't actually get paid to work for, nor is it official in any way, but workers are EXPECTED to all work overtime by their employers. Usually a bit of peer pressure is enough to keep people working long hours, especially with the conformist culture in Japan. After work, many Japanese workers are furthered pressured to go out to 'work parties' with workmates where they will go to restaurants/drinking with the boss instead of going home to see their wife and kids. It's not like these people are their FRIENDS, just people they work with, so it can't be very enjoyable.

Thus people end up working ridiculous hours, not get paid for it, pressured to go out, and then finally leave work at about 9-10. That's when all the late night food places are packed (for those days when there aren't work parties), and also when the late-night gambling places are packed, and when the hostess clubs are full (clubs for me to drink with beautiful girls, sort like strip clubs except the girls don't strip, and you have to pay to buy THEM drinks) because everyone is so beat they don't want to go home.

If you visit Japan, you will see this pattern over and over, it's not fiction but pretty much fact. Thus it's a pretty depressing life overall, so I can see why people are so depressive. Add that to the fact that in Japan, failure is absolutely not an option, you can see why people will commit suicide so much, unlike in USA where failure is pretty acceptable and actually something you faunt (i.e. think of all those 'born-again Christians' out there, or people like Donald Trump, who in Japan would have committed suicide a long time ago).

[Epinephrine]

Let me give you a common sense lesson. This whole standard set you are talking about... yeah, doesn't impress me.

The Dutch, as you can see on your awesome graph are way down the list, get 6 to 8 weeks of vacation (at least, I think that is the standard for most jobs) a year and as far as working time is considered, we are low.

However, I read a study last year that was conducted world wide, and the Dutch actually have the highest productivity rating world wide. We might not work as much as your awesome standard, but we get more done in less time. In other words we are better at it than you, now get off your fucking high horse and try matching those standards. I am glad I don't have to live of a 1 week vacation a year. Our average work week has been brought down to 36 hours I think, but like I said, everyone has a right to 6 to 8 weeks of vacation a year.

I have tons of respect for the Japanese culture, their work ethic, their sense of honour and respect for each other, is something most western countries will never be able to achieve. These things are fucked up, but like I said % wise, Japan is not the country with the most suicides. But let's not forget that it is actually the Japanese that updated your American way of business, if it wasn't for the Japanese you would still be doing your shitty costly way of producing stuff.

I think Canada actually has the last amount of public holidays of like any developed country in the world. It's kind of sad, but there are many more holidays in the USA than Canada, and a ridiculous amount more in European countries.

I also would not be praising Japanese businesses so much either, considering their economy has been pretty shitty since the late 1980s compared to the rest of the world, and in the last quarter they just fell off a cliff (GDP down 12.7% annualized rate!)

[Capital Knockers]

I just read the first couple posts, and then Epi's two. I got my fill of the thread. I even sent this to a few friends on msn, as I found it to be quite an insight. I'll be honest in saying that I'm not very educated about Japan, and this was an interesting side to see. Sad, but interesting.

When I say sad I mean that it's sad to see some people do this with themselves. Such a waste of life and human contribution. Althought, I'm sure this being the Subspace community, many of us could of been called shut-ins or hermit's at some point in our time. So it really was a bang on type of thing to bring to these foums. Oh, and seeing that dude's sword made me want one. I want a sheath in my guitar backpack thingy.

[Galleleo]

I think Canada actually has the last amount of public holidays of like any developed country in the world. It's kind of sad, but there are many more holidays in the USA than Canada, and a ridiculous amount more in European countries.

I also would not be praising Japanese businesses so much either, considering their economy has been pretty shitty since the late 1980s compared to the rest of the world, and in the last quarter they just fell off a cliff (GDP down 12.7% annualized rate!)

I am not saying their business are perfect or whatever, but they have been the source of a lot of improvement in the American business world since those late 1980s, JIT Management for example. 6 Sigma Management. The list is pretty long. That is all I mentioned, their influence on the way the western business do their work.

Obviously Japan has it's problems, and they are not perfect, but I have a lot of respect for the culture, it brings problems with it. But a very interesting culture non the less.

And when I talked about holidays, I wasn't specifically referring to the US having the least amount or not, because I don't know exact numbers, I just know the US doesn't have a lot compared to at least the Dutch (I don't really know numbers from other European Countries).

[Epinephrine]

I am not saying their business are perfect or whatever, but they have been the source of a lot of improvement in the American business world since those late 1980s, JIT Management for example. 6 Sigma Management. The list is pretty long. That is all I mentioned, their influence on the way the western business do their work.

Except those are AMERICAN business ideas. (a quick google search will show why you're completely wrong in thinking JIT or Six Sigma is Japanese and not American in origin)

What you're thinking about is Kaizen, which is a Japanese idea yes.

But generally the way Japanese run companies shouldn't really be a model for the rest of the world. A lot of the best parts of the Japanese way is more cultural than anything (the Japanese quest for perfectionism), although they do have a good view of using long-term vs short-term planning. Still general Japanese business practices are also horrible in a number of ways, including the blatant nepotism, back-room deals, being very closed to outside ideas, rigid management structures, heavy reliance on 'elites' to run things, and the entrenched layers of seniority.

[Displaced]

Epi hit the nail pretty much bang on the head, Japanese "work ethic" is insane, but It's not driven as much by actual "desire" as it is from fear of losing face...

as for work hours, my annual work hour is 1676hrs + possible overtime. I get 26 days off a year, and that's all she wrote. :turned:

[Izor]

this shit is fucking retarded. You dont live in Japan, so you dont know their 'work ethic' just like I dont know their work ethic. You're generalizing them based on what, the few cases that you've seen? This is getting to borderline racism, because you're taking your small percentage of people that you've seen doing one thing and applying it to their whole race. The numbers dont lie in this case. You cant tell me that a country that works 35 hours a week on average is working that much harder than a country thats working 34 hours a week.

[Zerzera]

This shit is fucking retarded, you don't live in Iraq but you have always had your opinion ready and supported invading them illegally.

We get it, you don't care. We get it, you don't want to know. We get it, you care so little that you have to keep coming back to this thread.

Just shut up and let people discuss this topic if they want to.

[Displaced]

no, I don't live in Japan atm, but I have lived in Tokyo in the mid 80's...

[Ronn]

Get your facts straight, America has one of the highest fertility rates in the developed world.

Just like Japan, Europe will see its population and its share in the world shrink for decades and perhaps centuries to come, making us go from one of the most populous to one of the least populated continents in the future, whereas North-America will continue to grow. What's bad is that even Russia is counted in those figures, so there will be even less 'Western' Europeans left.

Europe wont become one of the least populated continents. The EU has already made sure of that, 50 million African workers to immigrate here by 2050.

If America solved their problem by mass immigration and Europe too, will Japan become multicultural. Id like to see them keep the worlds lowest crime rates after that!