The shark problem

[oDer]

whine less

[god is dead]

Another problem is introducing micro rules like this one suggested for sharks is that it confuses new players, and new players are ultimately the life blood of this game (like it or not).

And he last thing you want to do is to introduce this type of rule and then withdrawal it. With each action like this you lose a handful of players. And as has been pointed out this rule seems to have been tried and rejected as a failure.

So lets press on with sharks as they are and put our efforts into attracting new players, not fine tuning ships to suit existing players.

[cubone]

Another problem is introducing micro rules like this one suggested for sharks is that it confuses new players, and new players are ultimately the life blood of this game (like it or not).

And he last thing you want to do is to introduce this type of rule and then withdrawal it. With each action like this you lose a handful of players. And as has been pointed out this rule seems to have been tried and rejected as a failure.

So lets press on with sharks as they are and put our efforts into attracting new players, not fine tuning ships to suit existing players.

lol "new players"

[Subspacer2001]

Another problem is introducing micro rules like this one suggested for sharks is that it confuses new players

The "rule" im suggesting is very simple to understand and there is really nothing confusing about it. Besides a new player wouldn't even know how the game was before.

new players are ultimately the life blood of this game (like it or not).

Yeah and they shouldn't be repelled away from this game.

With each action like this you lose a handful of players.

Look at pub. It's more and more dead every year and sharks killing the games def not helping it. It still got potential to grow, it just needs some little fixes.

And as has been pointed out this rule seems to have been tried and rejected as a failure.

As I said, it's different now with attachmode and ballpower. Attachmode should not be available in bigger games.

So lets press on with sharks as they are and put our efforts into attracting new players,

Lmao

[Subspacer2001]

whine less

shark less

[Omega Red]

Alright I'll bite lol.

I agree with your point on how sharks can greatly affect a game ending when at the last 10 seconds on flag or so, the smarter players will swap to shark to protect flag on that last little stretch. Any time before that though, you will not see that strategy in play because it won't work. A team can't win with just sharks.

It sucks to lose but you lost when you couldn't touch the flag 1 time 2 minutes before that, or you even lost before that when 1 jav idiot tked your entire team on entrance.

Other than that, all your other points are just your personal opinion on what makes the game fun for you or what is "random", when in reality there are a lot of things that happen in a game that you don't expect but they are not random. Sharp is predictable, a well timed rep is predictable, a moron missing and tking you is expected.

In the end you have to adapt to the scenario and switch ships if it calls for it. It is a game after all and not your personal sandbox. I understand if you don't want to switch to spider to negate sharks like someone else mention in the thread, but that is on you, not on sharks.

Also the pub dies down every time huge games end regardless if sharks "ruined" the ending or not. Unless there is a huge festival it usually dies down and people spec for whatever reason.

[Subspacer2001]

when at the last 10 seconds on flag or so, the smarter players will swap to shark to protect flag on that last little stretch.

Basically impossible to claim flag at that point even if your whole team switched to sharks. With my suggested limit system that would be a bit more possible.

A team can't win with just sharks.

Actually that is possible with attachmode. Many wins happens 90-100% with basically just sharks.

It sucks to lose but you lost when you couldn't touch the flag 1 time 2 minutes before that,

Yeah but team is just bad or uneven in that case.

or you even lost before that when 1 jav idiot tked your entire team on entrance.

Those are easy to predict and not really a problem. Let them bomb and then try to get in.

Other than that, all your other points are just your personal opinion on what makes the game fun for you or what is "random", when in reality there are a lot of things that happen in a game that you don't expect but they are not random. Sharp is predictable, a well timed rep is predictable, a moron missing and tking you is expected.

It's not a personal opinion that sharks kill games, specially when low population. It's a fact.

Most of what i described as random are random. You can't predict DOA's or emps on attaches unless you're not seeing what's happening near the guy you're attaching. In big games most DOA's and EOA's happens from near mines or repped bombs explosions. Bullets etc. shooting from various angles which are getting repped or doublerepped from various angles are basically impossible to predict, AKA random. All this happens because of too many sharks and when attachmode is on.

In the end you have to adapt to the scenario and switch ships if it calls for it.

How do you adapt to a scenario where there are 4 or more sharks constantly attach-repping on flag?

I understand if you don't want to switch to spider to negate sharks like someone else mention in the thread, but that is on you, not on sharks.

I play 99% with fighter ships. And again.. how do you negate multiple sharks with few fighters who are dying on firsts seconds after they attached someone? You're not really being realistic in your claims.

Also the pub dies down every time huge games end regardless if sharks "ruined" the ending or not. Unless there is a huge festival it usually dies down and people spec for whatever reason.

It dies more after sharks have frustrated everyone enough. Another reason for that is attachmode which makes the rounds last forever. Games without sharks can last many rounds with almost same size teams.

[PH]

i said water u fkin waring ass hole

dont make me repeat my self

[Subspacer2001]

i said water u fkin waring ass hole

dont make me repeat my self

Already did haha

water fk r u even talkin about?

[godisdead]

How do you adapt to a scenario where there are 4 or more sharks constantly attach-repping on flag?

Reps are not unlimited and more often than not when there are two friendly sharks one will mine, opening the door for an easy team kill with a rep or ram.

For the few/occasional times when sharks do win the game with reps this is as intended, just as some games are won with a team of efficient spiders with attach mode. The only difference is the ship technology, the outcomes are much the same one way or the other..

[Subspacer2001]

Reps are not unlimited

They basically are unlimited with attachmode.

and more often than not when there are two friendly sharks one will mine, opening the door for an easy team kill with a rep or ram.

Usually no one is getting close enough to use them. And also, here comes the "forced to shark" -problem i mentioned.

With a limit system I suggested this wouldn't happen.

For the few/occasional times when sharks do win the game with reps this is as intended,

It's not occasional, it's like a norm.

With a limit system I suggested this wouldn't happen.

just as some games are won with a team of efficient spiders with attach mode.

It's very rare to have enough shooters to penetrate all those reps. And usually it's the bigger team that have more sharks which makes it even more fk'd.

With a limit system I suggested this wouldn't happen.

The only difference is the ship technology

Yeah difference is sharks ship technology. When the amount of them is not limited, it is what causes the problems i have mentioned.

With a limit system I suggested this wouldn't happen.

the outcomes are much the same one way or the other..

Outcome is that too many sharks kills the game.

With a limit system I suggested this wouldn't happen.


Either you don't really play pub or you're one of those who don't notice that teams are uneven, you in the bigger team with all the sharks. And say gg after.

With a limit system I suggested this wouldn't happen.

[godisdead]

Either you don't really play pub or you're one of those who don't notice that teams are uneven, you in the bigger team with all the sharks. And say gg after..

Wrong on all counts and i think this reveals your problem with your other arguments, you are making assumptions based on false premise.

Its important to take an objective view when considering ship wide changes and consider the positions of other people, not just improving the game for what seems to be your own benefit due to a handful of bad experiences when you struggled against sharks.

Most people enjoy the challenge of one of two sharks, and in a small game as I have explained they can be defeated with a number of strategies as I detailed earlier. Furthermore everyone except yourself seems to enjoy sharks whether its one two or three. I have even seen 4 sharks v 4 sharks which is great fun, if you are ever lucky enough to experience that.

[Subspacer2001]

Wrong on all counts and i think this reveals your problem with your other arguments, you are making assumptions based on false premise.

All my arguments are based on facts and 25 years of experience playing TW. My only assumption was that you're a typical trollish, self centered shark player and looks like I was right.

Its important to take an objective view when considering ship wide changes and consider the positions of other people,

That's exactly what im doing here. A few sharks can ruin the fun for 10 other players. Please read and comprehend my first post of this topic.

not just improving the game for what seems to be your own benefit

How am i trying to benefit? How would i benefit? I dont care about rec. Im just pointing out obvious faults and imbalances in the game.

due to a handful of bad experiences when you struggled against sharks.

When you struggle against fighter ships you start using shark because theres no other way you can win.

Most people enjoy the challenge of one of two sharks,..]Furthermore everyone except yourself seems to enjoy sharks whether its one two or three.

And this guy blames me for assumptions and false premises.

and in a small game

Please read and comprehend my first post of this topic.

as I have explained they can be defeated with a number of strategies as I detailed earlier.

I have invalidated all your unrealistic strategies and delusional arguments. Please read and comprehend my previous replies.

. I have even seen 4 sharks v 4 sharks which is great fun, if you are ever lucky enough to experience that.

It's maybe fun for you but the rest 7 had to shark to counter you and the others that you forced to use shark. And they probably didn't really enjoy it at all.

Please read and comprehend my first post of this topic.

[cubone]

Blah

Does the 2001 in your name represent how many braincells I lost reading this whole thread?

[godisdead]

My only assumption was that you're a typical trollish, self centered shark player and looks like I was right..

I'm only interested in constructive arguments so I'm going to leave it here. The points have been made on both sides so thank you for your contributions, at least the earlier ones.