Pub Timed Matches

[PH]

I know I said my previous post would be the last, but I feel obligated to defend my position here.

Sarien is right about [...] Pure Hatred [...] trying to sabotage the Pure Pubs

Allow me to say this in the most respectful way possible: fuck you. I supported what you and everyone else did with the pure pubs just as much as if not more than anyone else, and you still have to name-drop like I'm Adolf fucking Hitler. Not in at least a year have I even tried to disrupt pubbing because, as you said, playing in pure pubs is fun. Or rather it WAS until the weasels, teamkilling javs and lack of enforcement against said javs fucked everything up. Now, rather than even attempt to enjoy myself in whatever pub I enter upon connecting, I leave it as quickly as possible. It's dead. There is no interest in legitimate basing, in pure pubs or otherwise, and a fucking time race bot isn't going to fix that. It's going to take more than a few green messages and a few bounty points for most people to regain interest.

Again, thanks for the pure pubs, Moot, but we already know you were a key factor in their creation. Let it go. And quit name-dropping for shit that was done well over a year ago. This isn't about what was done in the past, this is about trying to preserve the fun factor of pubs for the future.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled, unnecessarily long and drawn-out thread.

[Kolar]

You don't think I care about the game? You don't think I care about pubs? After everything I've said and the suggestions that I've made, after spending years playing the style that I play, you are telling me that I don't care enough about pub or on how to improve it?

Sorry if I offended you TK, I know you care about the publics but it seems very arrogant and senseless to claim little damage on the count of the weasels when this problem stems beyond this new system.

and you say that I do not have a good enough perception of what works and what doesn't work in pubs?

Not exactly but as I said before, if you haven't been on both sides of this then you probably don't have the knowledge that I have.

You accuse me of stupidity for defending something that has no balance or comparatives skill?

Posted that for someone else not you TK.

I've been playing under those settings and I've seen how they affect basing. I know what weasels can do and how their size can work to their advantage, and I've played through it and found a way to counter this so called lack of balance to find a new balance.

With new systems people will change their tactics. Not always will you have people who know what they're doing or people like you and me that can find ways to defend against this. Why leave it open? why let it continue like this when a simple and already needed change to the game is ready, thought out and would work?

If the main Public community want Time Race, I'm pretty sure A) they'd either go to ?go base, or if there was enough support for it they would have pushed for the idea themselves.

This is to make basing more fun and appealing for new players and for older players. If public players don't know the goal of playing the publics and don't come on to zone forums like this then: How in the hell could they ask for anything? ?go base is limited and restricted so many people don't bother going there, this way we may get more league players in the end, Public basers can enjoy the more competitive play in pub 0 and people can still pick what they want to do in the zone.

The Flag Race has nothing to do with levis and I've tried to tell you guys this 100 times now. The goal of this is to get more people basing, it is not a fix for other problems nor would fixing other problems solve this. Basing in the timed publics has gone up, more people are playing it and it is very competitive. I want the pure publics to spread into the others Moot, but I can see that will not happen anytime soon.

[Mootland Farmer]

"Allow me to say this in the most respectful way possible: fuck you. I supported what you and everyone else did with the pure pubs just as much as if not more than anyone else, and you still have to name-drop like I'm Adolf fucking Hitler. Not in at least a year have I even tried to disrupt pubbing because, as you said, playing in pure pubs is fun. Or rather it WAS until the weasels, teamkilling javs and lack of enforcement against said javs fucked everything up. Now, rather than even attempt to enjoy myself in whatever pub I enter upon connecting, I leave it as quickly as possible. It's dead. There is no interest in legitimate basing, in pure pubs or otherwise, and a fucking time race bot isn't going to fix that. It's going to take more than a few green messages and a few bounty points for most people to regain interest." By Pure Hatred

Sorry, I didn't mean to "name drop" you. I guess I didn't add something to my post that I should have. Yes Pure Hatred, I know you've supported Pure Pubs for along time, I was merely stating what were you doing in the first few weeks of the Pure Pubs opening. Don't get my wrong on that. To think I remeber alot of ?go base player supporting me when I first started the idea, and I don't see many playing. But I see players like you and others playing, which is cool. I didn't mean to bash you like that.

"Again, thanks for the pure pubs, Moot, but we already know you were a key factor in their creation. Let it go. And quit name-dropping for shit that was done well over a year ago. This isn't about what was done in the past, this is about trying to preserve the fun factor of pubs for the future" By Pure Hatred

I was replying to Kolar there. Plus I didn't seek to get a whole bag of gold from this thread. I was just stating how the impact of the Pure Pubs have been good amongst other ideas.

[PH]

Yeah, I did act like a dick when the pure pubs first came around because I figured they were going to fail miserably. In fact they've done the opposite, and for good reason. For those of us who have played in and enjoyed them, thanks Moot. I'd like to see at least some elements from them instated in other pubs, but as Kolar said, I doubt it's going to happen.

[Sarien]

but it seems very arrogant and senseless to claim little damage on the count of the weasels when this problem stems beyond this new system.

If you look at what the weasel helped keep in check, and the rampant damage the levs have done and continue to do, it is little damage in comparison. TK's point of view Kolar (as I perceive it) is that when you're public basing, devious is OK. Lack of "skill" is ok. Lack of ingenuity, Lack of lots of things are OK. Having things not completely fair is still OK. And it pales in comparison to large wide open entire-public arena spanning problems that have been around for years, that have been adversely affecting gameplay, and in truth, the entire zone. The pure pub bot was a great band-aid. But it was a band-aid over top of other band-aids, when surgery was required. The only thing the original bot did was disable levs. Starting from that radical notion, look how much further attention and popularity they have gained. Why continue to half-ass the solution?
That by no means disrespects Guano or Moot, or anybody, because it was literally clawing to get that much done back then. But has the zone progressed now to the point where real solutions to problems can be considered?

Not exactly but as I said before, if you haven't been on both sides of this then you probably don't have the knowledge that I have.

Kolar, again, no disrespect, but you're the very same guy that told me I could not have legit input about things in ?go base because I stopped liking to spend my time there. He might not have been on both sides, but he's been on one side a long time, and in depth, and fought hard to try to get things fixed for it. You really should stop looking at it like you have some sort of gleaned knowledge about problems in public arenas, that we don't have, because you don't. In fact since you divert your time, we deal with these same problems big and small, a lot more.

If public players don't know the goal of playing the publics and don't come on to zone forums like this then: How in the hell could they ask for anything?

By learning from when the first time they enter the zone, no matter what pub they bounce into, they see basing, and dueling, and people doing it as examples to follow.

The Flag Race has nothing to do with levis and I've tried to tell you guys this 100 times now. The goal of this is to get more people basing, it is not a fix for other problems nor would fixing other problems solve this.

Yes, we know. And we've tried to tell you that levs and other things are 100x the problem, and fixing THAT stuff is what will get more people basing. That will get more people basing than the amount of flows through pure pubs in a week. Because instead of focusing on one arena, you're fixing up -the entire zone's publics-. And the entire population that comes with it. THAT is when you'll see more people in league play. THAT is when you'll see attitudes in pubs being healthier. THAT is when you will see more players going into basing and the dueling leagues in a shorter amount of time. And lastly, THAT is when you'll see publics revitalized. Not before, no matter what or how much tinkering or playing with the pure pubs you do. Otherwise, it's just a new band-aid on top of other already dirty band-aids.

[gerry]

Since Pure Pubs have been running, "fun" basing you'd like to call is there 24/7. Sarien is right about players like Pure Hatred, Ezor, Gerry trying to sabotage the Pure Pubs, but in the end realising that Ship #5 is the real problem.

"

don't mention my name again. I want proof that I am trying to "sabotage" pub again. just drop the old "pub sabotaging by ezor, pure hatred, gerry" blah blah blah. you are whining.

Izor was just as bad and yet no one talks about him anymore.

[Kolar]

If someone was not a regular base player or if that person never really played ?go base then I don't see why said person would be commenting on it. I don't really remeber talking about it and I don't see how it's relevant here.

I don't see myself as being more knowledgeable but when this is about league-base and public matters as TK and you have made it out to be, my postion gives me a unique perspective neither you or TK have. If you want to take offense to that, fine, I will equally take offense to the elitist attitude TK is expressing over publics. I have fought for basing in this zone just as long as TK has, the only difference is that I do not resent basers. They'll see basing and now with the pub timer they can see it and play it better.


Both the flag timer and levi updates will get more people basing and I've said this a 100 times already, doing one or the other does not solve each other, I can understand that if you can stop post it. Both will need to be done, this can be done now so why not run with it? Yes to get the zone back up without bandaid solutions we need to go beyond this, for now, this is all the Smods I've talked with are willing to do. So Sarien: Take it or leave it.

[Mootland Farmer]

"don't mention my name again. I want proof that I am trying to "sabotage" pub again. just drop the old "pub sabotaging by ezor, pure hatred, gerry" blah blah blah. you are whining.

Izor was just as bad and yet no one talks about him anymore." By Gerry

Did you not read my post afterwards? and properly? I said at the start of when Pure Pubs were first established.

[Theif of Time]

but in the end realising that Ship #5 is the real problem.

The shark terr is a example of this, right? Or do you mean its the problem in that its inadequate to deal with weasels...

[qan]

Someone came to me with a rather ingenious idea the other day. I apologize for not remembering who, but hey, you know who you are:

- It's possible, with the aid of bots, to create the illusion of two (or more!) versions of shipsettings in pub, to be used in different arenas. The idea is that you have the settings loose enough so you can adjust the levi's settings by prizing it (or negative prizing it) with various things. You could have a regular-style levi in most arenas, and then adjust to give a more maneuverable but less powerful heavy bomber for purepub arenas, as suggested before. Not too tricky to implement, either; we'd just have to have the settings down pat. One problem I can see with this is that should the bots go down, you're stuck with the regular levi in purepubs. But then, if purepub bots normally went down, this is what would happen anyway. I think this solution could work wonders.

This other one is really very minor, but might help just a little bit:

- Make weasel exactly the same size as one tile. Right now it's got about a pixel of breathing room. This makes it easier to get in the little holes than it would be if it were the exact same size. Might be rather surprising to see how much this deters weasels from getting in, as it's a bit difficult squeezing into a hole the same size as you when your pixels have to be exactly on. It would give terrs and others more time to defend, and make that amount of time cloakers have to remain cloaked all the more precious and difficult to use effectively. So this would be a small change, and not really affect much from the perspective of most players. It'd make weasel base entrances require a touch more skill, though.

[qan]

Also, coming soon: about 1000 points awarded for every 3 minutes of fighting you've done with your freq upon winning. Freqswitchers beware: you'll get jack shit (or next to it!).

Thanks Kyace!

[Theif of Time]

It's possible, with the aid of bots, to create the illusion of two (or more!) versions of shipsettings in pub, to be used in different arenas. The idea is that you have the settings loose enough so you can adjust the levi's settings by prizing it (or negative prizing it) with various things. You could have a regular-style levi in most arenas, and then adjust to give a more maneuverable but less powerful heavy bomber for purepub arenas, as suggested before. Not too tricky to implement, either; we'd just have to have the settings down pat. One problem I can see with this is that should the bots go down, you're stuck with the regular levi in purepubs. But then, if purepub bots normally went down, this is what would happen anyway. I think this solution could work wonders.

MK uses such a system, I believe such an idea was also toyed with for Feine.

[Kyace]

MK uses such a system, I believe such an idea was also toyed with for Feine.

Actually this sounds like an evolution of the auto-greening idea that makes TW a superzone compared to SVS, only using a bot instead of the cfg to make the ships fully greened at spawn.

[duel pasta]

well that's something new.. someone said SORRY on the forums... normally people would say: 'Yeah, FUCK YOU TOO!'

[Mootland Farmer]

"but in the end realising that Ship #5 is the real problem." By Mootland Farmer

"The shark terr is a example of this, right? Or do you mean its the problem in that its inadequate to deal with weasels..." By Thief of Time

What I meant is that those few players that didn't like Pure Pubs originally, have realised that Leviterring actually ruins basing because of the damage and blast radius of the bomb.