An end of an Era

[Doc Flabby]

It didnt help that those two blocks that stop the LT shot into the top of the FR got removed. These probably should have been put back before trying this out...

reading though the history apparently Terriers in TW used not to be able to move with someone attached.

[Zeebu]

It didnt help that those two blocks that stop the LT shot into the top of the FR got removed. These probably should have been put back before trying this out...

reading though the history apparently Terriers in TW used not to be able to move with someone attached.

remove all the blocks that allow lev bombs in the base and dont allow levs to fire when attached to a ter.

i like this idea and i think it could actually work in a basing environment without dicking everything up too bad

[spinsanity]

zeebu and Ephemeral and Clownboy56

Ephemeral, I glad your not a Republican.

Zeebu's, you don't need to limit LT's ablility (except flabby pointed out that there use to be blocks to block certain base shots, but that also limits warbird and jav shots too). I kill LT's attacking base from the outside ALL THE TIME as a lev, and warbirds from inside base manage to do it as well, and there are even more cleaver ways to kill LTs from inside base.

This brings up another problem of few pubs and even fewer regulation (non-pure) pubs. When you seperate the good basers that don't know anything about levs and LTs from the basers that do, then you begin to have problems like basers that don't know how to effectivly deal with LTs.

And even more important as far as good game play, you get too many levs and LT groups in one zone and none in the rest, you can even get people that want to base in one zone and people that want to dual in the other and you will find no one basing in that zone, not because levs are permitted, but because everyone is dualing.

This is why we need to have more pubs and consistant rules... and unmodified levs and LTs need to be in all (and yes even in league zones).
Reasonable solutions so far include changing the map to some degree, limiting priv freq numbers to some degree, timed games possibly, and giving a ship or ships more ablility to deal with the LTs as they stand now, for example, easier to purchase antiwarp. In addition to this, there needs to be a some sort of change(s) that would increase pub populations to a point there would normally be 3 full pubs with all the same rules, but I would like to see more, but while there are fewer people in TW, 3 full pubs is ok.


We are grouping certain types of players in specialized zones too much.

PS.. everyone should read Clownboy56's post on this thread on page 3.

[Heroin Bob]

bring back the 90s pub map and settings, then i can escape it again

plus people will ?go base and you can stop adverting, if they dont like pub base

[dads revenge]

?go Altbase for new pub map there problem solved

[spinsanity]

?go Altbase for new pub map there problem solved

?go Altbase for new pub map there problem solved

Lets go there and judge it, maybe a topic for new thread?
I don't see too much wrong with it, except for 4 flags instead of 1
I'm guessing Dads Revenge wants feedback
I'm all for a new map, even one that makes it harder for levs/lts, AS LONG AS, all pubs have the same rules and permit the traditional Lev/LT to play with the rest of the ships.

[Lemmin]

I didn't do such a thing. Please read carefully.

I read the whole thread pretty carefully, and I wasn't clear why you removed pure pubs and announced that it was a permanent thing before bringing them back again. Maybe you could explain it for me?

LEM

[spinsanity]

Healthy vs Unhealthy

Lets look at healthy vs unhealthy TW pubs.

UNHEALTHY TW pub system.
There are enough players for 2 full pubs.

pub 1 breaks down to:
freq 0 - 13 players all ships except levs - levs not permitted
freq 1 - 12 players all ships except levs - levs not permitted
spec has 5 players
** rules ban priv freqs- no players on priv freqs


pub 2 breaks down to
freq 0 - 8 players 2 are levs
freq 1 - 5 players none are levs
freq 34 - 1 lone wb
freq 911 - 5 players for a lt freq
freq 1342 - 2 players for a lt freq
spec has 9 players
------------------
This is a unhealthy TW pub system.
Pub 1 may have a good game going, but at what cost?
Well for starters all the players that know how to base are in one pub, while you have too many people dueling or going out on their own to form their own bad-ass freq in the other pub. Both pubs are unhealthy, one isn't TW, its some other game that restricts levs and priv freqs, and the other has all the players that want to play TW with levs and priv freqs---but they are all piled into one pub, leading to uneven and weak pub freqs and poor game play.


HEALTHY TW pub system.
There are enough players for 5 full pubs.

pub 1 breaks down to:
freq 0 - 10 players 2 are levs
freq 1 - 11 players no levs
freq 78 - 1 lone cloaker
freq 2375 - 5 players for a lt freq
spec has 5 players


pub 2 breaks down to
freq 0 - 14 players 2 are levs
freq 1 - 13 players 3 are levs
freq 34 - 1 lone wb
freq 911 - 4 players for a lt freq
freq 666 - 3 nuts trying a spider-terr
spec has 0 players

Pubs 3 - 5 are a close match to pubs 1 and 2
--------------------------------------
This is a HEALTHY TW pub system.
The players that want/know how to base are evenly distributed, so are the levs, so are the spawner/duelers, so are the priv freq players. This is due to more people playing pubs, and less are in manual or auto hosted zones AND because all pub arenas have the same rules.

---------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------

Changes need to be made that would get us closer to the healthy pub system. Having more than 2 full pubs, having the same rules that permit levs and priv freqs throughout tends to make the pubs self correcting directed at good game play. But a priv freq restriction a spec time/population limit MAY also help as well as a auto-even pub freq bot. A priv freq restriction may work something like: 30% of the players in a zone can be priv freq, first come first serve.... OR you could create greater incentives to stay on pub freqs.

Putting a limit on who can be in what ship seems to be dumb, since if people make the wrong choices (they are all levs for example) that team will not get very far << this is part of the game.

It wouldn't kill us to make other changes, for example experiment with a new map, as long as it can deliver the same fun, but maybe make things a little harder for the traditional Lev/LT. Maybe give a ship or ships a slightly better edge over LTs, for example easier anti-warp, as long as anti-warp wouldn't get in the way of people attaching to the base terr.

If we could get by without timed games, or maybe have time-gamed weekends that would probably be best.

[kage]

The Moot Conspiracy

1. Evidence

moonshake.txt
converitable motive
guilty testimony
lives in new zealand

2. Opening Arguements

KAGE: You may begin, for it is MOOT.

MOOTLAND FARMER'S ATTORNEY: To what do you account these allegations of consipiring, dishonesty, insincerity and public deception? I will begin by saying that the defendent is poor-

KAGE: no u r!!

MFA: [OFFENDED] DO NOT INTERRUPT ME. What is this, what you write? Is it intelligent? No, it makes no sense. Nothing ever makes sense. I use my knowledgable, vast, inconcievably large vocabulary and make the connections and it all comes out all nice and sweet and I know what you are thinking but no, that does not make SINCE Wittgenstein said no way to art in his logic box and I bet you haven't read that, Mr. kage, because then you would know exactly the meaning I am making, as opposed to your nonsense. I am a lawyer now son. Therefore we should just stop these proceedings right away for I have just proven him to be retarded like duh and but so what do you have to say about that?

KAGE: quoi?

MFA: Young man. Alright, I rest my case. You may give your arguement now, although I doubt it will be anything convincing considering your lack of trained professional to let you know how much I just graped your juice right there. You don't even have enough money to buy a lawyer, son, you can't be that bright. You live in America, goddamnit!

KAGE: well, basically, as the moonshake.txt will show you, once presented, mootland farmer had planned the decisions thought to be in reaction to player's wishes long in advance, no trace of spontaneity whatsoever. you may be saying to yourself, 'quoi?' - what does that mean?, and i will tell you what it means. it means that he has wanted to destroy the public zones of trench wars ever since he began playing subspace out in his farmland of lore (lotr, lolz). why would he want to eliminate public (no, that's public not pubic) play? well... he wants to kill trench wars. as you will find out, he has been the reason behind our population decline, causing other zones to lose players also because they could finally play in our zone with all the good players gone but eventually the game got boring for them too so they eventually quit and you may be thinking, once again, 'quoi' - wasn't he appointed not long ago?, and i would slap you because i would also know you are thinking that and well if he was smart enough to decieve you now don't you think it's conceivably possible that he's been pulling strings long bee-foh-two-kay-foh? yes, it is conceivably more than possible, it is true. you might be telling yourself, hmm.. well now i know WHY... BUT HOW?, and i would see play with my baaaaaalllls. don't you not know that dividing public into two separate entities will destroy the idea of pub as a complete entity? it's actually logical too- i had 100% of something and then i split it into two categories (those being pure pub and levi pub) and the number for each individual category rises but pub itself, the place where people go when they enter the game, the place that remains the same no matter which specific arena you are in as long as you are in pub itself, that place as a whole will have been divided and it will split in two. so listen newbies, this actually was a lot more work than i planned so i am not feeling up to forging a moonshake.txt because i am too lazy so if you just skipped down to the bottom you would have gotten my point faster i hope you read all of this suckas because i really did make most of that up because it sounded fun at the time but now it got kinda old.

well, the point that i just made is that when i allow for both butt-clenched seriousness to the point of absurdity above AND the laziness at the end, is deconstruction. our zone is deconstructing and there is nothing you can do about it. that is why this is called the moot conspiracy. embrace the chaos.

[spinsanity]

Moot Conspiracy?

Oh come now, there is no conspiracy, and the most of the roots go back before Mr. Moot's time... It goes back to well intended promotion of league games and that faithful decision to ban levs from league games. And while we had many full pubs, having one pub be like league games didn't seem so bad....

Well that system got out of ballance, so now its time to reballance things, that is why Mr. Moot started this thread.

Hehe, but was a funny post and your right about splitting pubs into two

[Jockman]

I Need My Pub Back

Your making people leave! Why MOOT WHY

[Doc Flabby]

Your making people leave! Why MOOT WHY

???? pure pub was put back after about 4 hours of trialing this, things are as they were....

[Soilderz]

I haven't had the energy to read whole thread,I only read the first page:

First of all, I find that we have some problems, When staff took away the usage limits to b.elim it has been full. With 20 + people on days! It has been great, Now that is not a problem, But now when its friday, Tourny is on, We have 20+ people there, 4 people playing (?) And in the elim arenas there is 6 in baseelim, (there were around 15-17 at same time yesterday) and 15 in elim ,(2 playing) There has been many questions about if tourny should be gone because it kills the elims. I dont know. Does it kill the elims? Or what is it.. ?

Now to another thing, Im a baser, So i've noticed this, yes,we won game of the month, maybe we got some new players, Before this Pure pubs change (Not saying it is its fault) base was actually on at evenings/nights. Now when i logged on yesterday at the time whenbase is ALWAYS on. There were around 5 people + bots in spec. What? Why? Don't know if there any hosted event going on or what it was.. Why is base dead? Tonjo(i think) tried to ad there came like 5 more people there.
When pubs were changed or so if we think logicially there should come more people/basers to ?go base if they dont like that its levis allowed, But it has just gotten even more inactive. Hmm, Why? Now,Im on TW, I see 2 pubs, 35 and 30 people in it, Thats good i think? But then we get to a question

What is most important to try to keep active and so? For the moment i cant see TW hold, tourny,elim,baseelim base and pub active at same time, Not with this amount of people we have here in this zone. Im not suggesting ANYTHING that we should remove anything or something.. Just saying my thoguhts and ask what you guys think?

Bah, Never really written this long post,

EDIT: Now i've read through the thread a little. People saying that pub is NOT about basing, Its about learning stuff, Pub is where you come when you first enter TrenchWars. Yes, I agree somewhat, People come there first, They play,getting killed, dueling, hanving fun(hopefully) when i were new, I didn't have a clue there was actually a base or flag that you should keep even if i flew around the base on roof hunting people. Newer people dont really go into the base and know about the flag, So, Why are people whining that 'we' basers are taking over the pub and trying to get the levs out, to engage more better skilled basing with cram and so on, so newbs cant have fun? There should be diffrent pubs that allows levs and some that doesn't. Then some of you guys start saying that dont limit ships, New ones wont find it fun to not be alloed to lev and boom everyone becuase there is no one in the base where levs are allowed, Guess why? Because people dont like that levs bomb into base when they are fighting for the flag. When i enter pub i just see people whining on the lev (see mirrorrs log aswell on page 2) and no one really shouting, LEVS ARE SO FUN !! Now again, I wont say what is wrong or what is right before something otherwise is proved. Just my simple opinions.

Regards.. And sorry for the long post.

Okey just saw that you're not allowed to lev in pub 4

[Ephemeral]

I’ve got an idea, lets make a thread 5 pages long and spend a lot of time discussing and debating how to improve/market an online game when it is not clear at all if;

a.) The servers are going to be around for long
b.) That the game is going to be around for long

[Doc Flabby]

I’ve got an idea, lets make a thread 5 pages long and spend a lot of time discussing and debating how to improve/market an online game when it is not clear at all if;

a.) The servers are going to be around for long
b.) That the game is going to be around for long

That was kinda my point here: http://forums.trenchwars.org/showpos...3&postcount=18

The game itself i think will be around for a long time. However in its current form i think its life it limited to 2-3 years max. I've noticed a large reduction in non-SSC zones, this should be a warning to anyone, we are losing creative people who are trying to create zones. We're at the limits at the moment of how much further we can develop the game with its current client and server imo.