Elim 2.0 Discussion

[milosh]

Barwarp:

barwarp in belim should never exist

One thing i don't want is warp into baseelim

Don't put barwarp in baseelim

I don't think you should include a bar warp

Without any opposing view point on this issue, I'm going to say that the competitive base will not have a bar warp.

Streaks:

The streaks thing is something that's bothered me in what you said. You said arena messages for casual base, but PM streaks for elimination. Honestly? I think this should be the opposite way around. When a player is owning elim, they want others to know they own, so it's more useful to arena them in elim. Since casual is just casual and nobody really cares, I think you should PM them in THAT instance.

Streaks have been put in the elim arenas before and I think the general consensus was that they are too spammy. However, I think if you did something like 5 kills to initiate a streak and 3 kills to update it I think you'd have much less green messages.

I would just as soon make streaks only for the competitive players and erase casual streaks all together. I'd like to hear from the ?go javs players that such a change would more directly affect. Perhaps I could bribe them with some other kind of reward for streaks(such as a private message and temporary shields or something).

Score tracking:

I think you're going to have to scorereset every game. The reason being is that (as an isolated example) when there are three players left in baseelim, one with 7 deaths and the other two with 9, it's tactical from my perspective to try to kill the guy with 7 deaths so I won't have to deal with killing him 3 times 1v1. As a solution though, to still incorporate your dual set of stats, why not have the bot keep track of overall records?

I am opposed to making the bot keep track of overall records as it greatly affects the long standing players of ?go javs. The glamour of having a record is so that people can see it(and so that you can hold the continuum shield). How would you feel about a command like !wl <player> that shows the wins and losses of a given player. In my opinion that may be even more handy than having to flip through an F2 menu.

Competition:

the thing about "casual" gameplay is that it has no value so people are just messing around in them (90% of the players in go javs) the warbirds arena is never used because elim with rankings is fine on it's own.

Well the casual players are free to play casually in the casual base(hence the name). They shouldn't affect the competition level any more than they currently are.

Spawning:

One point you didn't touch on that I think is imporant is the overall map architecture. First and foremost, your going to need two spawn points and thus you'll have to rely on the bot to warp people into one of the spawns (presumably the competitive one.) I think that if you don't work out a good warping method that ensures players won't end up on top of eachother or be easy pickings for those already in either spawn, people are going to end up frustrated and the map will fail. EDIT: PO's solution of even/odd spawnpoints would solve this problem

It is possible to warp people within a milisecond of spawning. The only spawning area would be in the casual base, and when a competitive player dies they would be instantly warped to a random location in the competitive base upon spawning. I could add a check to make sure they aren't warped onto a rock or some other obstruction.

Map:

Secondly, I think the baseelim map itself needs an overhaul. Not as many people are playing anymore and you can't gaurentee the same numbers you could in baseelim. I would propose maybe a 3 tiered system of doors in the baseelim map. So, say if the game is less than 15 people only the smallest portion of the map will be open, under 25 would be the second portion, and 26+ would incorporate the total map.

This raises obvious concerns that the map will be unpopular, but there are two soulutions to this. One: Rework the existing baseelim map by moving some tiles around and adding doors or Two: have a seasoned mapmaker take the existing block structure from baseelim (ie: one large central entrance, the cross looking things, the box made out of one tiles spaced evenly) and rebuild a more compliant map.

Agree on pretty much everything except for the map. Do not change it, it's a solid map.

The map does need further investigation; furthermore, I don't feel like or have the time to figure it out. I'd like to hear more opinions on this matter.

[Capital Knockers]

thank you milosh, bout time someone told us wtf is going to happen with elim :P Looks good, glad you're taking the time out of a Pre-Med schedule to do this, thats busy. Keep up the great work man!

[RednaZ]

lolol, yes it does.

I really like the idea milosh, a healthy compromise. I'd like to give my two cents but I'm going to speak purely from the baseelim prespective because I'm too cool for 1 hit kills:

Don't put barwarp in baseelim unless you can somehow randomize it and at the same time ensure people's safe warping into base. Which, to me, seems more trouble then it's worth because if you have set warp points people will camp them.

Streaks have been put in the elim arenas before and I think the general consensus was that they are too spammy. However, I think if you did something like 5 kills to initiate a streak and 3 kills to update it I think you'd have much less green messages.

I think you're going to have to scorereset every game. The reason being is that (as an isolated example) when there are three players left in baseelim, one with 7 deaths and the other two with 9, it's tactical from my perspective to try to kill the guy with 7 deaths so I won't have to deal with killing him 3 times 1v1. As a solution though, to still incorporate your dual set of stats, why not have the bot keep track of overall records?

One point you didn't touch on that I think is imporant is the overall map architecture. First and foremost, your going to need two spawn points and thus you'll have to rely on the bot to warp people into one of the spawns (presumably the competitive one.) I think that if you don't work out a good warping method that ensures players won't end up on top of eachother or be easy pickings for those already in either spawn, people are going to end up frustrated and the map will fail. EDIT: PO's solution of even/odd spawnpoints would solve this problem

Secondly, I think the baseelim map itself needs an overhaul. Not as many people are playing anymore and you can't gaurentee the same numbers you could in baseelim. I would propose maybe a 3 tiered system of doors in the baseelim map. So, say if the game is less than 15 people only the smallest portion of the map will be open, under 25 would be the second portion, and 26+ would incorporate the total map.

This raises obvious concerns that the map will be unpopular, but there are two soulutions to this. One: Rework the existing baseelim map by moving some tiles around and adding doors or Two: have a seasoned mapmaker take the existing block structure from baseelim (ie: one large central entrance, the cross looking things, the box made out of one tiles spaced evenly) and rebuild a more compliant map.

Jesus I ramble a lot.

Agree on pretty much everything except for the map. Do not change it, it's a solid map.

[Soup du Jour]

This is brilliant. If implimented, I promise even I will start playing (b)elim again! :grin:

I don't think you should include a bar warp or a streak counter because neither are needed (and it's that much extra coding for you).

Betty, if you're in bio, where did you find time to pick up coding?

[Tatsumaru uk]

well played sir, the idea is perfect.

when can it be implemented?

[Doc Flabby]

why not have the bot keep track of overall records?

this is a class idea

[Vehicle]

Originally Posted by Darkmoor
Seems like good ideas, except for mixing casual and competitive play in the same arena. Keep them separate!

Doesn't this defeat the ENTIRE objective of the project?

lolol, yes it does.

I really like the idea milosh, a healthy compromise. I'd like to give my two cents but I'm going to speak purely from the baseelim prespective because I'm too cool for 1 hit kills:

Don't put barwarp in baseelim unless you can somehow randomize it and at the same time ensure people's safe warping into base. Which, to me, seems more trouble then it's worth because if you have set warp points people will camp them.

Streaks have been put in the elim arenas before and I think the general consensus was that they are too spammy. However, I think if you did something like 5 kills to initiate a streak and 3 kills to update it I think you'd have much less green messages.

I think you're going to have to scorereset every game. The reason being is that (as an isolated example) when there are three players left in baseelim, one with 7 deaths and the other two with 9, it's tactical from my perspective to try to kill the guy with 7 deaths so I won't have to deal with killing him 3 times 1v1. As a solution though, to still incorporate your dual set of stats, why not have the bot keep track of overall records?

One point you didn't touch on that I think is imporant is the overall map architecture. First and foremost, your going to need two spawn points and thus you'll have to rely on the bot to warp people into one of the spawns (presumably the competitive one.) I think that if you don't work out a good warping method that ensures players won't end up on top of eachother or be easy pickings for those already in either spawn, people are going to end up frustrated and the map will fail. EDIT: PO's solution of even/odd spawnpoints would solve this problem

Secondly, I think the baseelim map itself needs an overhaul. Not as many people are playing anymore and you can't gaurentee the same numbers you could in baseelim. I would propose maybe a 3 tiered system of doors in the baseelim map. So, say if the game is less than 15 people only the smallest portion of the map will be open, under 25 would be the second portion, and 26+ would incorporate the total map.

This raises obvious concerns that the map will be unpopular, but there are two soulutions to this. One: Rework the existing baseelim map by moving some tiles around and adding doors or Two: have a seasoned mapmaker take the existing block structure from baseelim (ie: one large central entrance, the cross looking things, the box made out of one tiles spaced evenly) and rebuild a more compliant map.

Jesus I ramble a lot.

[PureOwnage]

None of you probably know this but I was working on the arena to incorporate ?go javs into the belim arena. I have it set up in the DEV Zone in the arena #pureownage

Right now it's set up to where even frequencies spawn in the belim area and the odd frequencies spawn in the ?go javs area.

It was supposed to serve as a test to see if it would work or not, but I never got around to actually proposing it. So if Milosh would like to test it out. I have it set up in there.

[Galaxy Turbo]

Seems like good ideas, except for mixing casual and competitive play in the same arena. Keep them separate!

Doesn't this defeat the ENTIRE objective of the project?

[HateTheFake]

^^ This.

^^this

gj milosh

[Darkmoor]

Seems like good ideas, except for mixing casual and competitive play in the same arena. Keep them separate!

[Kahlan]

Reading this gave me a boner. Good work

^^ This.

[Daldur]

hell yeah
nice work mr. bete noire =]

[veetee]

What attracts many players is arena numbers. If they are small in elim, people do not even bother going there. because either most are afk or few players are shooting each other on a big map. This merge would probably add more numbers to both arenas and hence attract more players and activate the zone during its dead hours. I was always wondering where is there no warbird arena where you can just freely shoot at blue dots instead of going to pub and getting lamed by levis or wzls. You can always prac radarring, rushing, etc. where in elim you have to wait out most of time instead of continuing on game.

I would prefer the ?go wabrids arena for the lone prac to be of TWLD like, without those canals and obstacles, just rocks scattered in a rectangle.

Note that events like dm2, tridm, etc. still have decent population participating.

[Ricko]

it sounds great, get working on it asap bud as no doubt with your busy schedule and the amount of work you are going to have to put into this it will be months before it's ready. Much appreciated though.