Poll: Roster Limit

[Doc Flabby]

I'd rather staff put their efforts into something more productive, rather than something this divisive.
There still a decent tutorial for this zone OR TWD, i remember this being discussed when i was on staff...years ago

TWSD still needs fixing or scrapping entirely. Myself i'd like to see a LT league

Please try and focus on something that ADDs new options to the game, not takes them away, you're taking away our freedoms

ALSO: WHY IS THIS VOTE NOT PUBLIC, I WANT TO SEE WHO IS VOTING FOR THE LIMIT.


When i ran $flabbly$ at one point the squad had 90+ players. Shortly afterwards groups splintered off to create their own squads, and $flabby$ dissolved.

If a squad gets too large it collapses on its own, this happens naturally, we don't need in enforced from the top...

[Displaced]

flabby makes a good point too..

Also, I agree with the public nature of the vote, how can we be sure that someone like witness isn't himself just editing the poll to his favor? (ok, most probably not, but it is possible, as i find it incredibly hard to believe there are so many idiots on these forums)

Also, Vatican Assassin made a good point, saying he voted for the limit when he thought it was for TWL not TWD, there is no distinction in the poll, and this error could be made by casual/uninformed voters.

[Noah]

What strikes me as odd is how a vast majority of those who posts are against the cap, but the poll result is different. If this were to have any viability at all we'd see alot more people arguing for cap.

[Arobas+]

Anyway, it won't happen.. this is will create too much drama.

[cash.MONay]

LOL bunch of euro disoblige pussies. There are other places you can come on to chat with your gay euro friends about your gay lives. This game is for gaming.

I think this idea doesnt do shit to the game. There arent many rosters with over 35-40 players. And if the ones which are slightly over the limit do cut down a few players, it wont do harm the game in any way. In fact, it may even help generate another squad. It will also prevent situations like paxin and gT.

Also some faggots argue that "Ive been playing this shit for 10+ years and u havent been so you dont know jack shit". If you've played this game for 1+ year, you get the gist of it and know wtf is going on. You can identify the same problems and threats as any older player can.

Whats interesting is that no mid-tier squads have commented on this topic. Only some of the higher and multi-tier squads are arguing amongst themselves. This limit will work in favour of primarily single league mid-level squads and players. For example, teams like Savanger, Asians, Blind, Solar...will benefit. They will have to possibly reduce roster sizes and will hopefully generate more players. The end result will possibly be another new squad.

I say fuck the old vets. They are pretty horrible at the game anyways. They can chat with their e-friends other places. Also its not like they are all going to be axed as their arent many squads largely over the imposed limit.

Meh....whine euro faggots whine.

[Exalt]

OK.... This thread has turned into a shitfest with not a single one of you being productive in an actual intelligent conversation. It is all about bitching your ass off in hopes that you will have the most posts in this thread. Noah, I'm sorry, but I'm looking at you as the winner right now.

anyway... There are two main reasons for a roster cap:

1. Everyone is tired of seeing thunder win LJ and LD, and Dice winning LB. We want to see new squads that have not been formed before, and we want to see competition. There ARE enough players in subspace to do this still... it just has never happened right.

2. Everyone remembers when TWD had 70+ squads in each division, and having only 10 in each one now doesn't cut it.


The point is... there are enough really active players to create a lot more twd squads than there are now. Everything MAY be watered down... but so what? Lemme put it in perspective:

For Americans: NFL started with only 8?? teams really. It gradually got more, and the AFL eventually merged. Free-Agency and a salary cap made sure talent was spread around, so teams are watered down with great talent and not so great talent... but the popularity is an all time high. The NFL succeeds because of the "any given sunday" aspect.

For Canadians: Same deal. NHL started with only 6 teams. It now has far more. The popularity is at an all time high.



I just want everyone to really think about it. You only need 5 players in TWLD and TWLJ. Along with a backup for each player, that equals a 10 man roster. That's all you need. I agree that everyone wants to squad with friends and players they know well, but that's what chats are for. That is why we have so many in the first place.

Imagine if instead of only 4 decent TWLD/TWLJ calibur squads... we had 50 decent ones. The talent would be watered down maybe, but so what? A good player can play with anyone. With 50 decent squads running around, imagine what could be done in terms of making a TWL season more fun. Imagine what could be done to create a type of pyramid league, or recreate cup leagues. It gives flexibility.



Also, the other big issue is that everyone is sick of being able to DD/JD/BD only 4-5 squads at any one time. That is boring as fuck. Diversity is the only way to keep things fun in a game like this.



A roster cap is only a first step. Stop being so afraid of change and realize this game is basically on it's last legs. We need to either spice it up so that old players will come back, or remold it so that it appeals to newer players. That, or we let it die the way it is, and don't mistake that it isn't dead. 10 years of no change sucks. While I understand some of you don't like change, it doesn't matter. The game changed under your feet by losing a shitload of players over the years, and people like me just would like to see it regain any form of 2003/04/05 playerbase that it can.

Remember when TWD was created (for you old vets)??? It was a new concept that made trenchwars skyrocket in popularity. I mean fucking skyrocket. We need innovation like that again. I will accept it in any form that it comes..... but a roster cap is just a first step in my eyes.

[LamedFighter]

wtf is this? roster limits is ridiculous, especially 35 or even 25.. talk about finalizing a death blow to tw. especially with squads like ours (Paladen) that have a large roster.. youd be surprised that the majority of people on it arent active. So if we throw away those people, they come back and see they were booted and are no longer on the squad nor able to get back on the squad what do you think theyre going to do? If it was me I would just delete SS... Which I dont think we could aford to do, people deleting this game because of bogus things like roster limits. Why do this roster limit? seems to me like people are getting jealous because no one wants to join there squad.. Well i wont be joinin any squads if this bs passes, i dont see it achieving much. If you want people to join your squad change it up, do something different with recruiting, you can still get good players without having to strip them from there squad with a rosterlimit.


-LF

[Exalt]

wtf is this? roster limits is ridiculous, especially 35 or even 25.. talk about finalizing a death blow to tw. especially with squads like ours (Paladen) that have a large roster.. youd be surprised that the majority of people on it arent active. So if we throw away those people, they come back and see they were booted and are no longer on the squad nor able to get back on the squad what do you think theyre going to do? If it was me I would just delete SS... Which I dont think we could aford to do, people deleting this game because of bogus things like roster limits. Why do this roster limit? seems to me like people are getting jealous because no one wants to join there squad.. Well i wont be joinin any squads if this bs passes, i dont see it achieving much. If you want people to join your squad change it up, do something different with recruiting, you can still get good players without having to strip them from there squad with a rosterlimit.


-LF

I'm tired of squads like paladen all pretending to be saints for allowing inactive players that don't give a fuck about this game to have a squad. If those players really gave a fuck about TW in the first place, they will find themselves a new squad when they log on again. It isn't that difficult.

You are all fatalist type mentalities with little to no upside to you. Paladen is a shit squad that caters to this game dying. Instead of letting your newbie players create other squads within themselves, you hold them all under same roof with the false pretense that your squad is super old, and thus respected. Paladen hasn't been even a DECENT squad since 2000. Can I give you a reminder? KJW IS GONE. LONG FUCKING GONE. You are not paladen anymore. Paladen mine as well be the AFK arena in terms of squads. I would rather see it die and let that 60 man roster turn into 3 squads. You then all have a squad the same calibur that you can duel with.

I'm tired of everyone refusing change. You all pretend like TWD has been around forever. It hasn't. TWD KILLED public as we knew it, and it killed all the private arena intersquad duels too. What it did do was create a reason for competition. The population grew a shitton because of it. There were a lot of people that disagreed, and staff had the balls to impliment it anyway. Good for them, or this game would have died already.

We need something new with the impact that TWD had, or why even keep playing? I'm tired of playing the same 4 squads over and over and over again year after year. Change is good for this game.

The only drawback I see is that a roster cap isn't nearly enough to give the right impact. It needs to be far more substantial than that.

[Zeebu]

exalt, unless the limits were set ridiculously low, no new squads would form. do you really think that by dropping the limit to 35 more people will start squads? consider diso, we wont kick off our active people that would consider starting a squad, we'd kick off the casual fun people that would just quit.

where does that get us?

now, set the limits to something like 15 and sure, more squads would form. but, since our population is so low not enough of them would be online with another squad throughout the day to actually play (talking all day here, not jsut peak american hours). on top of that we would still lose all of our casual players.

like it or not exalt, this game is dying and the casual players help to hold it together. this is not an idea that will at all save twd by any means.

in short, the only way this idea would at all make new squads form is to make the limits stupidly low. we simply do not have a large enough playerbase to set a legitimate limit for a 3 league squad and end up not losing players. just wont happen.

[Refer]

setting a roster limit to something ridiculously low like zeebu mentioned won't work; not only cuz of the reasons you have stated; but TW is a game played in all different time zones. It's not like a MMORPG like WoW where having a small guild is feasible due to similar time zones.

And Exalt, I don't believe that a roster limit would help the TW population. i'm not in a squad that has over 35 people (though Rhino seems to be heading towards this); and this should not really affect me; but this would affect TW as a hole. you are right in saying some change is necessary; but really what feasible alternatives are there? i really feel that the idea of this roster limit is a change to be implemented for the sake of it without any real strategic thinking.

[Melon]

If any staffer decides they are going to fuck with my roster and manually axe people without my permission which they will not get, you can consider one of the leagues premier TWLD squads and one of the most active TWDD squads of last season to be completely inactive until the changes are reversed.

AWESOME!


[sarcasm] And I am sure you can keep your squad hopping buddies from not joining another squad when you stop playing matches. [/sarcasm]

[gran guerrero]

I'm not sure if it was mentioned before or not but what about this...

-Limiting rosters should be implemented to squads that have 50+ down to the minimum of 50, anything above this number is just ridiculous.

-Players who are inactive from the game in [amount of time (i don't know, like 2-3 months)] are sent an e-mail to notify them that their absence from the game will lead to temporary suspension from their respective roster. Also informing them that if they log in in the next [however time you guys want] then they can be reinserted to the roster

~ Obviously this would require some sort of code that the bot can recognize this at once. So if a player logs in once a week, they are fine, but if they start to not log in at all for a period of like let's say 3 months, then they can be suspended, but given a chance to not be if they log in to the game in the same amount of time that they were inactive.

And in case they do not log in, a message will be sent to the captains of said player who can then determine whether or not they want to allow him back onto the squad if they logged in a year from now.

This allows inactive players to a chance to come back to the game and have nothing changed on them, and captains to manage their rosters more efficiently without them losing their friends.

---
All in all I don't see why all of us can't be flexible on this situation, we aren't the United States Government where every action we implement is applied to everyone. We can all agree that if we see a squad like Giant Tiger that has so many on their roster and hasn't even seen the light of TWL then we can implement roster limitations. But if we see a TWL squad that consistently shows up, and has a decent amount of players then there's no need to remove 5-10 players who are inactive.

Oh and just because some of us aren't captains of squads or ran squads doesn't mean we don't get a say in the game that we all play in. Stop acting like elitist snobs and figure things through with everyone else or you will only end up alienating more players from not caring about this game at all (because they don't have a say or whatever else you guys been arguing about)

It's better to work with the players who are active now, rather than wait on players who show up once every blue moon. If they log in then and find themselves no longer on the roster, there's no reason why they can't just ?message the captain and let them rejoin the team so they can be active again.

There's no need for polls, or decisive decisions or whatever else that's splitting us all apart. This is a community run game that can work fine with common sense.

Just do what is right.

[Burnt]

fixed: http://twd.trenchwars.org/arobas/twactivity.gif

TWD got a little bump this summer, then when TWL started.. TWD got a declined as never before. But by the numbers, January should be a good month for TWD. TWL is wayyyyyyyyyy to long. It should be max 1 month, but that's another story.

link doesn't work. It's not that TWL is too long, it's because during TWL players are forced to be on one squad for 6 different things (twdd,twld,twjd,twlj,twbd,twlb.) My priority during this time is to be on a squad I can start with and will have the best chance of winning TWLD. So if my squad is inactive in TWJD or TWBD or I'm not getting any playing time in TWLJ or TWLB I'm forced to just accept that and remain on the squad just for sake of TWLD. I started for Rampage in TWLJ in season 6 and we made it to the semi-finals, but ever since then the squad I chose for TWLD happened to also be TWLJ champions and i'm simply not good enough to get playing time on a TWLJ champion. Maybe I could get playing time for the 6-10th best TWLJ squads but I'm not given that opportunity because I'm being forced to be on the same squad for every league.


So my solution is this, separate rosters for every TWD division. So you can be on one squad for TWDD/TWLD and another for TWJD/TWLJ and another for TWBD/TWLB or the same one for all three if you'd like. To avoid scheduling conflicts during TWL work with a fixed schedule like we do in TWDT, example: TWLJ at 2, TWLB at 3, TWLD at 4.

[Arobas+]

link doesn't work.

http://twd.trenchwars.org/arobas/twactivity.gif
should work now.

[cash.MONay]

link doesn't work. It's not that TWL is too long, it's because during TWL players are forced to be on one squad for 6 different things (twdd,twld,twjd,twlj,twbd,twlb.) My priority during this time is to be on a squad I can start with and will have the best chance of winning TWLD. So if my squad is inactive in TWJD or TWBD or I'm not getting any playing time in TWLJ or TWLB I'm forced to just accept that and remain on the squad just for sake of TWLD. I started for Rampage in TWLJ in season 6 and we made it to the semi-finals, but ever since then the squad I chose for TWLD happened to also be TWLJ champions and i'm simply not good enough to get playing time on a TWLJ champion. Maybe I could get playing time for the 6-10th best TWLJ squads but I'm not given that opportunity because I'm being forced to be on the same squad for every league.


So my solution is this, separate rosters for every TWD division. So you can be on one squad for TWDD/TWLD and another for TWJD/TWLJ and another for TWBD/TWLB or the same one for all three if you'd like. To avoid scheduling conflicts during TWL work with a fixed schedule like we do in TWDT, example: TWLJ at 2, TWLB at 3, TWLD at 4.

Burnt your idea is ok but it would be a programming nightmare. Too much work to implement this change.

On a side note, there must be a roster limit no matter what number we decide to keep. This is to prevent squads from carrying say 40+ people. Also, there seems to be a general notion that it is VERY hard to get on a squad. Its not. Its just a few clicks. Say an old 'vet' does get axed due to a roster limit, next time they come on they could 'temporarily' join a squad which has the space. Its just a few stupid mouse clicks.