Poll: Roster Limit

[Dethdefire]

Rofl dude are you serious? You are on epidemic right now that has 45 players on their roster.

Also again, why the fuck do you think the squads with 40+ players will remove those who aren't active? The squads will remove the least active people, and those people will continue to be inactive. If a squad would be formed from the cutoffs of the major squads you'd have a squad with no activity at all.

Epidemic had around 35 members when I joined. If you took the time to look at their recent recruiting spree before you criticized me you would have noticed that. Why don't you go ahead and take a step back and stop assuming that every squad with an excess of 40+ players only has inactive players in reserve. I would really find it hard to believe that there are currently no squads, with a roster size over 40, that would be cutting active players. Players that would in turn create or join another squad. There will be a majority of reasons for players being removed from squads, activity obviously being one of them.

[Noah]

Epidemic had around 35 members when I joined. If you took the time to look at their recent recruiting spree before you criticized me you would have noticed that. Why don't you go ahead and take a step back and stop assuming that every squad with an excess of 40+ players only has inactive players in reserve. I would really find it hard to believe that there are currently no squads, with a roster size over 40, that would be cutting active players. Players that would in turn create or join another squad. There will be a majority of reasons for players being removed from squads, activity obviously being one of them.

Well if you want to hold true for what you are arguing for you should have left Epidemic already to help create more squads. However when you are arguing for roster cap when you are on a large squad you only come across as hypocritical, and it doesn't matter what excuse you make up for still being in it.

Also inactivity will be the #1 reasons for people getting removed. If there are active players in a squad that hasn't been removed that means that they are getting along with their squad. There is nobody on Disoblige that is active that we don't want there, and the same goes for any real competitive squad. The obvious reason is: If they aren't wanted there in the first place they would have been removed already. Both mm89 and Wark are good leaders and I'm certain they wouldn't let an active player stay on the squad if the player didn't fit in.

If captains can't do that part of their job their squads are going to die in a very short time anyway.

[Dethdefire]

Well if you want to hold true for what you are arguing for you should have left Epidemic already to help create more squads. However when you are arguing for roster cap when you are on a large squad you only come across as hypocritical, and it doesn't matter what excuse you make up for still being in it.

Also inactivity will be the #1 reasons for people getting removed. If there are active players in a squad that hasn't been removed that means that they are getting along with their squad. There is nobody on Disoblige that is active that we don't want there, and the same goes for any real competitive squad. The obvious reason is: If they aren't wanted there in the first place they would have been removed already. Both mm89 and Wark are good leaders and I'm certain they wouldn't let an active player stay on the squad if the player didn't fit in.

If captains can't do that part of their job their squads are going to die in a very short time anyway.

Since its going on 4am I am going to pretend like I actually read this post in detail and reply. In your frustration, every post you make is another step farther away from the actual topic and one step closer to making personal insults toward me. If you want to criticize me for being a member of a squad that recruited 12+ members in the last three days, that I had nothing to do with, that is your misguided priority. Any actions taken by my captains, that are contrary to my public views on this matter, hardly make me a hypocrite. If I had a personal role in recruiting these players that would be a different story. Calling me a hypocrite for being in a squad that is five members over the expected roster limit, if it were to go in place, is a little silly. Why should I not have the same opportunity as the rest of the community, in allowing the captains to slim down the roster to their own standards? If that happens to include me I shall no doubt seek other opportunities with a squad that has room, or is just starting out. I have created and ran a few squads in the duration of my playing and I no longer care to do it. As for the rest of your post, it is fairly irrelevant to my postings so I wont reply.

[Turban]

old thread

http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthr...ity-Statistics

Too bad the link isn't working anymore, but if I remember right the statistics showed that TWD is still as active as ever. :wub:

wonder if Arobas+ would mind trying to get those statistics back up again..

[Noah]

Since its going on 4am I am going to pretend like I actually read this post in detail and reply. In your frustration, every post you make is another step farther away from the actual topic and one step closer to making personal insults toward me. If you want to criticize me for being a member of a squad that recruited 12+ members in the last three days, that I had nothing to do with, that is your misguided priority. Any actions taken by my captains, that are contrary to my public views on this matter, hardly make me a hypocrite. If I had a personal role in recruiting these players that would be a different story. Calling me a hypocrite for being in a squad that is five members over the expected roster limit, if it were to go in place, is a little silly. Why should I not have the same opportunity as the rest of the community, in allowing the captains to slim down the roster to their own standards? If that happens to include me I shall no doubt seek other opportunities with a squad that has room, or is just starting out. I have created and ran a few squads in the duration of my playing and I no longer care to do it. As for the rest of your post, it is fairly irrelevant to my postings so I wont reply.

I don't have to go away from my point in this thread at same time I am calling you a hypocrite. It's also relevant to point this out when the decision to make this a public poll because people like you really have no place in a discussion like this at all. This is a matter for people who know what they talk about, and not some mundane things about personal preference.

I also like how you spend your entire post on justifying being on a large squad, with the exception of one sentence. You say that it is irrelevant to your posts instead of actually addressing what I said. It is hardly irrelevant to your posts when you tried to argue that squads actually would drop active people in the post I replied to. It's a direct reply to what you said. You just say that it's irrelevant because you can't argue against it.

You have yet to respond to a single argument for why the cap won't work from everything you have posted so far. You ignore those arguments and just continue to repeat the claims. I'm not going to waste more time on you because you clearly have no intention to actually respond to arguments.

[Arobas+]

err, see my post below.

[midoent]

I think 45 should be an option. Enough for a squad.

[Arobas+]

[url]wonder if Arobas+ would mind trying to get those statistics back up again..

fixed: http://twd.trenchwars.org/arobas/twactivity.gif

TWD got a little bump this summer, then when TWL started.. TWD got a declined as never before. But by the numbers, January should be a good month for TWD. TWL is wayyyyyyyyyy to long. It should be max 1 month, but that's another story.

For the cap limit, we all agree that axing inactive players (as the consequence of applying the limit) won't create new squads. But see it in a long term. Instead of having 3 squads with 10, 30, 60 players.. they will tend to have the same amount of players, and mostly all active. And if you are willing to quit TW just because you got axed for inactivity, it's probably because you had no more interest in TW at first, and it won't hurt the community. And, It won't hurt anyone if we try it for 1 season.

I will produce some stats about squads in a few days (TWD just got reset).

[curse]

yea retarded idea.

[Noah]

fixed: http://twd.trenchwars.org/arobas/twactivity.gif

TWD got a little bump this summer, then when TWL started.. TWD got a declined as never before. But by the numbers, January should be a good month for TWD. TWL is wayyyyyyyyyy to long. It should be max 1 month, but that's another story.

For the cap limit, we all agree that axing inactive players (as the consequence of applying the limit) won't create new squads. But see it in a long term. Instead of having 3 squads with 10, 30, 60 players.. they will tend to have the same amount of players, and mostly all active. And if you are willing to quit TW just because you got axed for inactivity, it's probably because you had no more interest in TW at first, and it won't hurt the community. And, It won't hurt anyone if we try it for 1 season.

I will produce some stats about squads in a few days (TWD just got reset).

You're quite wrong that it won't do any damage. Only a few days ago Fruitang popped out of the blue and wanted to play some with us again. If we had the roster cap on when that happened we would either have to tell him to join another squad or we would have to axe someone who wants to play with us for no reason at all. I'm quite sure that Fruitang wouldn't bother to join another squad than the one he has been on for quite a few years. If we can encourage a great guy like Fruitang to get more active and play with us again that would be great, and TWD would get another competetive player as it desperately needs.

The same goes for other Disobligers has turned up in the past few months, Warportal, X Machine and Aim2kill to mention a few. Not to mention that we can't axe someone like Bram from roster as it would just encourage him to log on even less.

This cap is going to damage Disoblige both in term of our older players that we really want to encourage to play more, and that it will make it harder for us to be a three league squad. This zone needs good three league squads to be around as these squads are more stable and tends to stick around longer than one league squads. Not to mention that in three league squads we can teach our warbirds how to base etc, creating more competetive players for the seperate leagues as players learn to play more than one.

This is why we are going to absolutely refuse to take part in any roster cap, because people voting in this poll has no insight in how this is going to affect a squad like ours. It's going to create absolutey no good for us or our players.

[Arobas+]

I totally agree with you Noah, but I see it differently. You don't need 50 players to 3-leagues. By having a limited roster, players will have more chance to play 3-league, and they will get better.. in long term it means more competition because players will get better. Now, 30 players is still a lot (if 30 is the limit), you can still keep your "vet-inactive" players if you really want them to stay around, 2-3 players on a roster of 30 is really nothing.

Another solution is to create a special status for those who don't want to be kicked immediately if a limit is applied. But as soon as they leave the squad, they will lose this status. If a player is willing to quit TW just because he got kicked from his squad, it's because he's kind of a vet who don't care much about the game now. Now, this idea should fix this problem for all them. They will still be able to play TWD games with this status. Let's say you have 50 players and the limit is applied. You will have to choose X players as your "main" players where X is the limit for a roster. All the rest will get the special status. They will be "immune" and kicking them will have no consequence. If the team is full and someone wants to join, you will have to kick someone from your "main" roster. It doesn't require any change in the bots, only the web interface. It would be easy to implement this.

What do you think?

[Displaced]

i think if this ida goes through I might as well quit playing SS alltogether...

part of what makes SS great is the chat and the atmosphere, if we have to kick all those "inactive" ppl off our roster, i wont be able to fuck around with them in occasional twd games and thus wont have as much fun or as much of an incentive to continue playing this game...

there is more to this game than "competition" and regulation, please don't take what makes this game great away.

[Izor]

I have a small one-league squad and a roster filled with people who really only log in to chat. Of course TWD got reset. I would have been interested to know how many people on a squad that played around 600 DDs since the last reset played less than 20, but are still key parts of our squad.

[Vatican Assassin]

I voted for 35 cap but thought it was for TWL oops.

[Dabram]

What arguments are left for voting in favor of a TWD limit again?

If anyone honestly still believes forcing captains to axe 10-15 inactives, will make these inactives feel forced to suddenly join/create other squads or get active again, I think you should've realized by now how wrong you are?
Simple logic: they'll just stop playing completely if logging on a few times a month to play with their friends has become a huge hassle, we're talking about people who've started playing around 2000 when they were between 12-18 year old and are now well in their twenties. We've busy lives, but still like to play the game with our friends on occasions. Isn't that what TWD was meant to be for, casual league play?

Also 'it doesn't hurt to try' is NOT an argument. if you can't even bring up 1 realistic positive expectation of what could happen, why even bother making a change like this?

If TW staff truly wants to get a more active core for TWD, why is there STILL no proper tutorial/introduction for new players as they enter the zone for the first time? EVERY game has a tutorial, which besides the gameplay should be here to explain the goals/possibilities of the zone. Maybe in the past there weren't as much free MMOGs. But right now when a new player enters our zone, doesn't get the point within 5 minutes, he'll just give up and download the next free game.
So shouldn't you PERHAPS start with trying to KEEP the newcomers in the game, instead of telling old guys who've been playing the game well up to 10 years of their lives: get active or get lost.

I don't really know who Witness is, but he should wisen up and consider listening to those who've actually managed to keep squads around competitively for 3+ years instead of to the 100+ people who voted without a reason or those who've never managed to stay on/lead a squad for over a year (like dethdefire)..

Not sure why I bothered typin all that