Poll: Roster Limit

[kthx]

I had an idea awhile back that never got much play about having one or two rounds of hosted pub twice a day (one euro and one american slot) where a staffer would actually go in and balance the teams, two javs, three sharks, two terrs, rest spiders etc) to try to get some veterans into a game with some pubbers and teach them how to base sorta.

[Menelvagor]

@ noah "losing inactive bums is not a concern since they do nothing for the community anyways, if they want to play twd or twl they will join a different squad, they will not quit the game get realistic you nerds these fuks are lifers. if people wantto hold onto unlimted roster cap cuz someone like sika or banzi fuk might get offended and *might* never come back to tw then you have your head shoved much too far up your ass. we need to cater to the active players and the inactive players can go fuck themselves or start playing again. " -menelvagor

[kthx]

All it will do is separate the good players who teach from the bad players who learn and newbies won't get better.

[BurnZinger]

To start, im new to twd. Ive played ss on and off since the late 90's, but mostly just to goof off. Im not going to go into every little because i dont think it matters. Anyhow, i think the cap is a good thing. I think that there should be demand for newer players like myself, seeing as how all of you are concerned with the tw population dying. Im doubting that the basing squads, which is what i play, truly carry a squad of 30-40 active players. Yeah, im not the best player, but isnt that what you experience players are supposed to do it recruit us and train us? I figure that i should be wanted more because im an active presence in the game, whereas someone who might log on every once in awhile doesnt mean that much to the game. If they truly want to play, maybe they should do so more often, or make their own squad, which in turn creates more room for more new players.

I didnt post this to fire up all of you who are against the cap. I just thought it would provide a different opinion from someone who is newer to twd.

See all of you trenchwarriors in the game!

[kthx]

rabble rabble rabble, close the f'in vote already before random people like this have a chance to vote.

[RageRitual]

25-30 would be nice caps, but probably asking too much of the old players that are too scared of change. The ladders need more squads I don't know about you guys but I am sick the same few squads all the time win or lose. Maybe is squads like dice who have almost 50 players on the roster lose a few good players to help noob squads out. If these noob squads win once in awhile they might just stick around longer then 2 weeks and bring more activity to the ladders.

You kids need to stop crying about changes, this game is like 14 years old and we need to change things to keep it alive as long as we can. 35 sounds like an acceptable cap. Any players that actually enjoy playing the game will stick around even if they hate the cap.

[Doc Flabby]

This is a totally flawed theory roster limit won't increase activity.

Most of the squads with large rosters, have large numbers of inactive players, which is why their roster is so large.

It will make zero difference but alot of bad feeling, i see no advantage to it.

Everything knows that TWD is meant to be fun, for players of average ability like myself, why make it full of stupid rules.
If you want to play in a squad with a roster cap, join a TWL squad

[Dabram]

Here's a better idea, since the true problem that comes from having an unlimited roster are particularly dice and thunder stacking 3 elite squads worth of starters into two 50 men rosters. where as i think stayon pointed that maybe 25 from dice and 25 from thunder actually played in twl meaning 50 soft cunts sat around twiddling their assholes hoping to get more rings instead of joining a different squad and competing.

Nice argument. Except that the TWL roster limit is already 35, which means 15 of those 50 will not win a 'twl ring' and probably don't give a shit either, they just want, if they come online, to play with the ppl they used to play with for years and years. They do not want to come online, first have to get active before any squad is capable of picking them up, just to play a few rounds of TWD with their friends again..
That's why a roster limit for TWD is only going to create a loss of players without really giving anything back for it.

I think a limit should be in place but there should be several steps not just one full cap.

TWD Roster Cap: 40
TWL Roster Cap: 35 (for squads who has successfully qualified and accepted their invitation to all 3 Leagues)
TWL Roster Cap: 30 (for a two league squad who have entered into LB and either LJ or LD.)
TWL Roster Cap: 25 (for squads who are competing in LJ AND LD)
TWL Roster Cap: 25 (for squads solely competing in TWLB)
TWL Roster Cap: 20 (for squads solely competing in either TWLJ or TWLD)

to me, this would make the most sense, since you are able to have 40 men TWD roster to try and enter twl in all 3 areas, and have an active TWD squad. The more successful your squad is at multiple leagues the more cap space you are rewarded with when the leagues start up. For one league dueling squads 20 men should be sufficient that gives them 4 full 5 man lines for their dueling acitivities. I have suggested 25 men for twlb, since it requires 8 players to play a match. And twbd'ing would be hard with only 20 men rostered. so i think 25 is a good number.

I agree with the numbers for TWL. It's weird a 1 league squad is allowed to have 35 just like a 3 league squad.. But it has NEVER been an issue, because you'll never see 35 top notch wbs join the same squad. If a 1 league squad has 35 ppl most likely 15 of those wouldn't start on a good twl squad, so yeah..

Although without any of the other roster caps I have currently voted for a set cap of 35 men for twd and twl. except i think my idea would work 100x better. losing inactive bums is not a concern since they do nothing for the community anyways, if they want to play twd or twl they will join a different squad, they will not quit the game get realistic you nerds these fuks are lifers. if people wantto hold onto unlimted roster cap cuz someone like sika or banzi fuk might get offended and *might* never come back to tw then you have your head shoved much too far up your ass. we need to cater to the active players and the inactive players can go fuck themselves or start playing again.

You agree a limit will cause inactives to give up, so what do we get back for this limit exactly? If the only result of an implementation is going to be a loss of people, that's quite concerning. And I still haven't heard how it's going to do anything other than that.

[Jones]

This zone is literally filled with people who aren't good in any more than just one ship, and most of these aren't really good at that one ship either.

When I was running Sweet/Fatal I had lots of arguements with my co-capts about the roster size. Which inevitably lead to the following scenarios:

Riverside/vt> this one guy wants to join
Jones> did you say no yet

I did this for a few reasons:

1. I've always wanted to create a certain identity to my squad(s), which basically means I recruit people who are attitude wise somewhere in the same category as the other members. So I can basically filter out any idiots who post hiphop lyrics or talk about how cool it is to be a racist.

2. Followed up by #1, my highest priority has been to get a bunch of people who really want to play with each other. Not play 10 dd's a day, just a few over the week. People who actually like to login because they want to play with the other guys.

As many of you will realize once you've played this zone for a while, TWD is probably one of the most boring/annoying things you can do if your squad is filled with 43 random people. How funny is it to get spammed for having to play with #squad counts / need one because some idiot lagged out etc. Bottomline is: twd games are garbage 90% of the time because there are just too many newbies who want to play and 'have fun'. How funny is it to log in once a month get raped and die out in 2 minutes? basing excluded as no one can be bad at that league how many years you dont play it

So fucking funny for an established player to waste 30 minutes running around getting gangbanged because these idiots die out in 2 minutes.

I will not talk about basing since that league is too easy once you have a few experienced players (READ: NOT 50 mediocre basers, like some of these squads have)

Right so, my main point is that squads are utterly terrible if they need more than 20 people on their roster. I can't remember for the love of god more than 17 players from when I was on -FINAL-, and that's for 3 leagues with some players who only played 1 league/ship. More supersquads in the past have also kept their roster short, because they simply don't want their main players to get irritated by newbies.

As for the old people who log on every once in a while just to play arguement (which is really stupid because there are only a few squads who could be labeled as having old players. recruiting inactive players who have been inactive for 3 years is not an excuse) I believe Reaver said it best months ago.

Squad been alive for 1 month... 20 rosterspots.
Squad been alive for 3 months.. 30 rosterspots
Squad been alive for 1 year... 40 rosterspots

or something.

In conclusion: captains should begin to realize that recruiting 5 mediocre wb's wont make their squad any better in twld. twd activity is retarded since you won't get better by playing 10 dds a day vs. players who are starters for Lethal Dose or Savanger while their squad tag is Thunder.

Huge rosters should be a priviledge given to squads who last for years, not a right for squads who are only here for 1 season.
TWD off-season should be max 2 months long, to get more and more people involved in TWL so they for the love of god get better.

20 people rosterlimit. +1

[Doc Flabby]

Statistics are somewhat flawed. It will free up far fewer players than you might think for example for the following squad, the limit will have no effect: Quite a few players have never played for their squads (or at least played since last TWD reset)

Ossify 60 (inactive last played in novemeber)
Rabioso 55 (dissolved)
C H E E Z 42 (dissolved)
STONERZ 40 (inactive, last played in august)
Devest 38 (inactive, last played in august)

I will post my analysis of the TWDD league:



It would free up far fewer players than suggested, and they would mostly be fairly average players..I don't think this will bring about the results you expect...
As Jones has suggested good players tend to hang out in squads with smaller rosters anyways...Once squads get to a certain size they tend to destroy themselves naturally.

[freddie]

Some people just dont get it. And some intelligent people in this thread (at least turban, wark, might) have already pointed it out, if squad has to axe players for this cap, THEY WONT AXE PEOPLE WHO ARE CAPABLE TO CREATE NEW COMPETITIVE SQDS.

They will axe: inactive people -> they wont create squads nor join any
followers -> they wont create squads, might join some tho
horrible players -> they might create sqds, but noone wants to join them.

If you really want to create more sqds, then stop pussying out and make the cap 20 for one league sqds and 25 for multi league sqds. Thats all you need because, like it or not, there are plenty of people who plays all 3 leagues (or at least 2) in those 3 league sqds. This way sqds has to axe so much players that some of them actually has abilities to run sqds which people wants to join.

Oh, and make twl and twd rosters the same. That way you make sure new sqds will be created. And your ultimate goal from the beginning, drive inactive players away, will be achieved.

PS: If you really want change, how about make change which actually changes something. Or dont do it at all.
PPS: Since 35 seems to be lowest cap you can implement, just screw the whole cap and dont fuck things up.

[Noah]

Since there are an overwhelming lack of arguments from players voting for the caps it feels like its random pubbers without arguments voting, as Wark said.

I'll see if I can start convincing random pubbers to vote against the poll. Tons of players asks to join Diso every day and I have to tell them we are full. I'll be sending them here to vote against the cap so they can have a chance at getting in. Clearly people are doing this already because almost everyone that is a community member of this forum posts at the same time, and if you read the thread there is an overwhelming amount of players against the cap.

Wark I know you are with me on this one on this. Lets rape the shit out of this poll.

[Jones]

i havent voted btw, since the lack of options

[veetee]

The problem of incompetitiveness often lies in the TWL roster limit, not TWD.

Since the off-season in this zone is very long, some less skilled players should be able to join top notch squads to get to play with the right people. You will not enchance TWL competitiveness by focusing on TWD restrictions. In many cases, it may go way the opposite.

The argument that elite squads are usually the ones that limit themselves and only recruit the people they need is right. If you want to use TWD to create chemistry between certain players for TWL and hence ignore recruiting new players to teach them, you can always restrict yourself.

The focus should be leaning towards TWL roster capacity, not TWD. Unless some player becomes an excellent, flash-developing rookie, he has no chance of doing anything TWL-wise in a top squad. These top squads, also, are formed around certain post-winner/finalist cores that always find the most interest in playing with each other, but their total playlength in subspace has made them somewhat inactive in off-season, so the fill-ins may be useful to promote some TWD activity for the random core player to log on.

What I was always up to is to limit TWL roster based on the number of league the squad plays in. I also had an idea like this:

Set a base number of players for a TWL-invited squad to 10. Now

+5 players for participating in LD
+5 players for participating in LJ
+8 players for participating in LB

A squad invited only to TWLD will hence have 15 roster capacity. A squad invited to TWLB and TWLJ will have 23 roster capacity. A three league squad has reached a maximum capacity of 28.

It is unlikely that a one league squad will need to rotate more than 15 players, even though some of them are semi-active/inactive.

Players that are informed by top squads of not being put into their TWL rosters will have an incentive to join inferior squads to increase their odds of playing. This system would discourage 'bench' TWL titles and force some post-bench people to compete for the win. It would be good if captains could plan ahead and tell some of their weaker players that they will not be invited to TWL rosters, so that they can try and start a squad themselves and gain about a month to go up in the ladder.

The issue of cutting rosters down was also disucssed in chaos pro league. The assumption of some players was that it would promote more squads in league. But, as we know, the captains will strike down inactives on the first place. Moreover, when a player logs on and sees an empty, friendless chat or is unable to get 4 to play a game, he may lose the incentive of logging on again. Inactives will turn into retired people, since in the majority of cases they only log on to chat with friends and mess around in TWD, since almost nobody that is good and possesses a veteran status takes that league seriously.

What you could do though, apart from working on TWL roster cap, is you could try and start up 2v2 division for javs and warbirds (i have proposed that idea twice already but was ignored). It would promote competitive play when two squads have at least 2 members online (it is often the case during noon of euro times when people mess around baseelim). The tourny is inactive/almost dead nowadays, so there is no close substitution for 2v2 divisions. I suggest an authority to run a separate poll, asking people if they like this idea and if they are going to play it. We should disuss that matter in details and test it in the off-season.

[kthx]

Btw Jones, thats why your squad is terrible every year also.