TWL Update Thread

[Capital Knockers]

I'm not concerned about the change in itself, but I'm concerned about the way it was gone about. Removing the blocks was whined about, but it was given enough testing for people to ultimately see that it was actually a good idea. I certainly like it, and I bet most people do. Maybe people would feel the same way about allowing 2 terriers if it was given as much time to be tested as the map change was?

Also, enforcing a 4-spider limit is the wrong way to go about it. I've been saying this for years. If people are using 5 spiders then there is a reason for it. Perhaps that reason might be that spiders are overpowered? Or maybe the other ships just aren't good enough? Whatever the case may be, forcing people to play a certain lineup is stupid, and it's not getting to the root of the problem. It's ridiculous to say, "You are forced to play a warbird now! Look how fun and exciting we've made the game now!!" Give people a reason to play that warbird, but don't force them to.

As far has having no ship limits at all, that would be ideal in a perfect world. However, there are a few issues with that. For one, the current map (flagroom, specifically) is far too small to accommodate multiple ships other than spiders. The map would have to be radically changed if this was going to be put into effect. Then, there's another problem with that: the teams would be too small to fill up such a large map. Besides that, no squad is going to seriously use anything but 5 spiders, other than squads with lag abuser javelins. I remember Disoblige at the beginning of last season, talking about how cool their wb+jav strategy was. Really worked great, didn't it guys?

Secondly, let's face it: Subspace is an old game. Lag already has a profound effect on games because of the way the client/server works. How many times have you saw a person blow up for no apparent reason, but on their screen they had hit a burst? How about the times when your jav shoots a bomb, and everyone dies except the terr, who saw no bomb at all on their screen? Do you know how much different (and better) the game would be if everybody saw the exact same thing on their screens? Having even more bursts and bombs and whatnot is going to make the game even more random. You might as well go play Snakes & Ladders. Ideally, TWL would be played on a LAN, but that's obviously not going to happen.

The only reason I dislike javelins is because the only ones that are considered "good" are the players that abuse lag and the bug with rockets+repels. Against an evenly matched team, a warbird is mostly irrelevant, and so is a javelin that doesn't abuse the fuck out of lag. I'd ask to be named a "good" javelin that doesn't do this, but unfortunately, that's impossible.

Best collection of arguements I've EVER heard for the no-spider limit. Enough so that you've convinced me that perhaps increasing a wbs strength, or decreasing a spiders strength might be the best way to go after all. I wish people on dicE could form something like this, rather than just throwing a bunch of swearing and rambling into a forums post and assuming it's going to have any impact whatsoever.

I decided to ask 16 squadcaptains on the TWLD ladder what they thought. - Mirrorrim

This is a funny point, considering it contradicts Mirrorrim trying to claim that it was based off the 'past TWL squadcaptains' when there is nowhere near 16 of those in TWD right now, maybe 5 or 6 tops for TWLD.

You know what I find funny? You completely side-stepped every well thought out and logical point I had and resorted to taking another worthless pot-shot at Mirr. Real classy buddy.

If the top 16 teams were asked, 8 of those teams weren't making twl (9-16). Obviously they would want more teams to give them a better chance. Teams ranked 5-8 might not feel secure about their ability to hold their spots, and thus, vote for more teams to ensure a better buffer.

It's no suprise that it was increased to 10

Sirius: you sure like to ignore all the facts, dont you. I asked top 16. I paid attention to the squads highest on the ladder. Even more attention to past TWLD squads. ... want a surprising fact? The squads lower on the ladder voted for 8, they thought they werent good enough. The squads highest on the ladder thought 10 was good. Since they are the ones actually playing against these 2 extra squads, I will pay attention to them.

mirror stop being power hungry with this subject!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! youre saying 'if someone can prove to me why its a bad idea ill consider removing it' ....... what the fuck ???? since when was basing left up to you??? the proof is in the hatred of what you have changed to basing...the majority of the people dont like what youre doing here!!! and 80% of the people who support it are from disoblige and complain for changes since they havent won shit since it started 7 seasons ago.


power to the people ffs. take it down until we have more time to test it. simple as that.

Dwopple I really don't think you understand Mirr at all. She's the furthest thing from power hungry I've seen when it comes to staff, and could potentially be one of the best TWL Ops we've ever had. She's trying to please everyone, because that's her job. Even if it causes people to hate on her, she's trying to make everyone happy. She's done nothing but accept constructive opinions, and do everything in her power to change TWL for the better in a time where change is needed. I completely agree with your main point Dwop, it is too soon before TWL to be making anymore huge changes - but that's exactly the point every baser here seems to be missing. NO ONE is going to use 2 terrs this season. Disoblige might try it as a joke, but other than that, it won't happen. Mirr knows this, and very wisely has played both sides of the field. She's made a change to basing to please all the old school basers who are tired of it being stale - yet she's done it in a way that isn't going to have ANY immediate effect. That way, the basers who like things the same, won't complain. That's fucking brilliant. Only problem is she seemed to over-estimate the general intelligence level of the 'dice-like' basers. People are over-reacting and making personal attacks, accusing her of being power hungry. Honestly, we don't want to scare this TWL Op off, try to step back from all the anger for a second and take another look at everything.

also for all you queers talking about 'youre not being forced to play it' 'its an option' well:

we are being forced to play this kind of basing (mirror just said it was put in BASE and TWBD)

and if its an option, why not put it in base2 or make some other league where players actually WILL have the option to play it or not. instead of forcing it on us and just throwing it out there with no details or anything. there was no warning to this change, it was literally done overnight without poll or MAJORITY public opinion. and if you did ask alot of people, who exactly? im getting the feeling many people who havent won an LB title in a long time (disoblige) were the ones asked.

You contridict yourself so easily. You aren't being forced to play it at all, the option is just available for those who do. I don't see how you can still be arguing this, considering you were the one just recently saying that there wasn't anytime to test things.

true 5 or 6. Dice being 1 of them. And I was not asked - megaman89

ROFL are you kidding me? You weren't even asked? Wow, that just makes me wonder all the more who these '2-4 past TWL' squadcaptains were that said Yes to 10 squads considering I know I said no and I am one of those 2-4.

And you're telling me all the 'lower' squads thought they weren't good enough for TWL and wouldn't want to be able to get in? Wow I never knew we had such humble-hearted charitable players amassed in this zone.

I honestly am starting to lean towards thinking you are bullshitting at this point. Dice's cap mega wasn't asked it is verified now, even if there are 'other' dice caps that would be favoring towards certain caps if you only asked 'certain' captains on top squads and it's not even confirmed whether they were asked, and so far I havent heard of any 'past TWL caps' or 'Top ladder squads' saying they voted for 10. Either way, my initial paragraph up there to you underlines how 'top ladder squads' voting for it was flawed anyway.

When I hear someone other than megaman89 saying they weren't asked, I might be with you on the bullshit thing Sirius. I'd bet a thousand dollars that megaman89 would tell a lie before Mirr, or half the people on this game for that matter.

Maybe you've never met these humble people because of the way you act towards them?

- Now I'm going to get some fucking food, and might try to read page 5 when I get back.

[Dwopple]

Dwopple: Shut the fuck up please. No offense, but you're talking out of your ass in circular arguments that are neither logical or correct. I could sit and pick them apart, but other forum vultures have already picked what little meat was left on your argument's bones.

For everyone calling it a drastic change: it isn't. Adding the ability (not the requirement) to have 2 terrs is about as minor a change as you could put into TWLB. I'll reiterate my previous statement: no one is going to use it unless they suck or are playing another squad that sucks because there isn't enough time to practice the lineup. I think you all could agree on this, so why are you bitching?

You duelers who are commenting: you're arguments and ideas are not entirely unfounded, but unless you've played at least a season of TWLB at some point you should probably keep your opinion to yourself.

...trying to rememeber what else was retarded about this thread...

Oh, those of you saying it's unfair to force someone to play against a certain lineup: seriously, shut the fuck up. That's like me saying it's unfair to force me to play against 5 spiders because my squad likes to play a special, or that it's unfair to force me to play against a warbird because my squad's terr sucks ass and can't dodge. You should bitch about what you're really pissed about rather than beat around that bush, and that's the fact that the 1 terr limit has been removed, not that you might have to play against it.

I'm not for or against the new rule. What I'm in favor of is change, flavor, something other than the same monotonous bullshit that was TWLB and has been TWLB for the past 4-5 seasons. Suck it up and adapt, or are you guys to new to remember when people still lined?

2 terrs has proven to be useless/retarded in go base, so PL removed that option.


the option shouldnt be allowed, its a premature move with not enough testing to support its purpose. if some1 uses it its obviously a dumb choice. so why even allow it? no one likes a blow out match anymore.


put more thought into changing up basing with some REAL testing, REAL public OPINIONS, and maybe....a REAL map change. because thats what the 2 terr idea needs.

[Vehicle]

Dwopple: Shut the fuck up please. No offense, but you're talking out of your ass in circular arguments that are neither logical or correct. I could sit and pick them apart, but other forum vultures have already picked what little meat was left on your argument's bones.

For everyone calling it a drastic change: it isn't. Adding the ability (not the requirement) to have 2 terrs is about as minor a change as you could put into TWLB. I'll reiterate my previous statement: no one is going to use it unless they suck or are playing another squad that sucks because there isn't enough time to practice the lineup. I think you all could agree on this, so why are you bitching?

You duelers who are commenting: you're arguments and ideas are not entirely unfounded, but unless you've played at least a season of TWLB at some point you should probably keep your opinion to yourself.

...trying to rememeber what else was retarded about this thread...

Oh, those of you saying it's unfair to force someone to play against a certain lineup: seriously, shut the fuck up. That's like me saying it's unfair to force me to play against 5 spiders because my squad likes to play a special, or that it's unfair to force me to play against a warbird because my squad's terr sucks ass and can't dodge. You should bitch about what you're really pissed about rather than beat around that bush, and that's the fact that the 1 terr limit has been removed, not that you might have to play against it.

I'm not for or against the new rule. What I'm in favor of is change, flavor, something other than the same monotonous bullshit that was TWLB and has been TWLB for the past 4-5 seasons. Suck it up and adapt, or are you guys too new to remember when people still lined?

[Nova Itachi]

Hi friends

Steal my line more?

[Static Burn]

noone has considered this yet; twld has 2 extra squads than the other 2 leagues meaning 2 extra matches in regular season, therefore an extra 2 weeks of LD will take place over LJ and LB....so will LD start 2 weeks before the other 2 (meaning they will be pushed to mid-november) or will the LD final be played 2 weeks after we already have our LJ and LB champs?

We should just make it 10 for javs and base too. Especially base, since the 2 squads left out (out of mainliner, basingcrew, thunder, pirates, sage, spastic, brainwave, disoblige, penetrate) may just go inactive, meaning less squads to practice against in TWD, leading to a lower level of play in TWL. Also since the TWD qualification system isn't perfect, it's quite possible that the 9th or 10th best squad will just lame their way in, leaving one of the true top 8 teams out.

[Ricko]

noone has considered this yet; twld has 2 extra squads than the other 2 leagues meaning 2 extra matches in regular season, therefore an extra 2 weeks of LD will take place over LJ and LB....so will LD start 2 weeks before the other 2 (meaning they will be pushed to mid-november) or will the LD final be played 2 weeks after we already have our LJ and LB champs?

[Zeebu]

same thing i can tell u fucking duelers, u dont know shit about basing so u dont know the reprocutions of changes like 2 terrs, so GTFO. To basers adding multi to wbs is same thing,

you dont know the 'repurcutions' yet either

tried to say that in an earlier post

if that change did happen in wb's, id try it out first before threatening to leave the league

[eelam <tw>]

re

same thing i can tell u fucking duelers, u dont know shit about basing so u dont know the reprocutions of changes like 2 terrs, so GTFO. To basers adding multi to wbs is same thing,

[Zeebu]

k, i think we should propose multi for wbs allowing them to shoot 3 bullets at same time, what do u basers say? good idea i think so IMPLEMENT IT NOW!

this isnt remotely the same thing

[eelam <tw>]

re

k, i think we should propose multi for wbs allowing them to shoot 3 bullets at same time, what do u basers say? good idea i think so IMPLEMENT IT NOW!

[freddie]

I would like to point out a question for Dwopple.

If you dont like clusterfuck, why you support 5 spider cram?

And for majority in this thread, how much time you need to figure out how to use 2 terrs, or not at all? One month is fine, maybe some teams even have unique tricks in twl now, when everyone havent played zillion times against each other.

[Dabram]

why because im retorting against every point you make?

its the only league ive ever truly played of course im gonna defend it.

you would be the same way if we decided twdd/ld was getting boring and we decided to allow lancs/spiders in games to duel. because it is still dueling even if other ships are in.


...

in it's old days twl used to be any 5 ships dueling it out with 10 deaths each. and soon enough everyone realised wbs were the dominant dueling ship, so everyone used 5 wbs. so be my guest, let's change back to the old rules, nothing would change for twld.

stop being so new, it's embarrasing to watch.

[PjOtTeR]

I don't know why you're attacking mega PJ, he's annoying, but damn good.

In what part of my message was I attacking him, can you point that out please?

Gosh and to think you´re a grown up man with supposedly understanding of the world, geeesh...

On topic: I do think that if you have 2 capable terrs and a team communicating really well, 2 terrs could be a good matchup vs a 1 terr line... Too bad I know how our chat and freqchat is, so that's never gonna happen. Not even speaking of the 2 capable terrs...

[Pressure Drop]

It is ridiculous to make such a drastic change with such short notice …

At least the removal of the blocks was played for the whole TWD season but now some power crazed mods decide to change the terr limit to 2 a few weeks before TWL is due to start?

It is completely retarded to give that sort of notice and saying “well no one will use it“ just makes it even more stupid reasoning by the people making these decisions… the terr is a fundamental ship and the only one you can attach to and the only one that had a 1 limit making it the most important to kill, putting limit to 2 reduces that.

There is varied tactics where 2 terrs would be an advantage and teams could practice over the course of a TWD … like starting with 2 terrs taking up different positions and bursting like crazy if the flag room is cleared but one of your terrs has died it could be changed etc etc … or being more inventive.

TWL ought to be better planed out that messing with something pretty much out of the blue … introducing a 4-spid limit which I’m against would at least be something that as been talked about thoroughly for a longer time with the basing community and even implemented in the BWC etc

But this is a load of shit and if it was to be implement like the BLOCKS it should have been thoroughly tested in ?go base then TWD for the full season before TWL. I remember this being tested in ?go base a bit but that was it and only a couple of times when a mod or someone was there not left up with an entrance message.

It worries me that people in charge are jumping to these sort of rash decisions more and more and making it more farcical.

______________________


why is the BD game limit for TWL qualification the same as DD & JD ?? surely it should be weighted with which is the easier to get? - you only need 4 to duel but towards 8 to bd (yes the min is 5's but any basing squad would prefer 8's) - so you are now talking about a total of 8 active ppl vs 12-16 ... yet 50 games for both ... it was brought in to try and stop blowthrough squads dropping out of TWL but what you are going to do is drastical reduce TWD compition and the number of basing squads further and increase older squads dying ...

[hypocrit]

O_o

5:Dead_Rain> jamal do you agree with 2 terrs
5:JAMAL> amazing idea, test it for 2 weeks in go base, ready to go for twlb!!!!!!

LOL

anyways. just stop arguing, stop trying to show 'facts' about why this is a bad idea, at least with this short of notice. Just prove that it is a bad idea in go base/twbd arena(s). Yes it's an interesting idea to look at, but you can't just throw it at us and expect us to like, or get comforatable to it right away. I deffinatly believe people would give it a shot when there is time available to test this new style of playing to basing.

and lastly, idk why hatethefake is talking, tbh.
havn't seen him play any games?...:death: lols.

what ever, that's my input.
gl in LJ/LB/LD/LS(exciting!!) to all. :turned:

oh and i think people are funnier on forums than in ss. :grin:

pz