Thunder Appeal

[Summa]

you are not TWL staff so therefore I do not need to discuss anything with you, its a sensitive matter which you have no concern in, other than bias opinions based on you not liking me as a player/person

since when did i show any disdain for you? and since when are my opinions not based in the stated rules. you do have a point though, i am not a part of this appeal and you need not give me the name of this dubious op who randomly approves people, however the thunder people who appealed can request for a name because they are invested in this affair and if it is not given then i would call bullshit.

otherwise i will simply make the request: twl staff can you make public who approved him? it really isn't that sensitive of a thing.

i advise thunder to DEMAND a name of a TWL OP who approved him, otherwise their case is correct.

good day,
humid

[Exalt]

from my understanding a TWL host is not a TWL op

Where in the rulebook does anything state this? There is nothing that states "a TWL Op is only a specific TWL staff member, and does not include the TWL Ref" In fact, a TWL Ref is an operator of TWL and therefore should be considered so when they give specific permission to allow a player to play the game. Whether their decision is right or wrong shouldn't be in question since they are the interpreters of the rules not you.

If you want to argue specifics mr space lawyer, lets argue specifics I'm almost positive every week a team loses we can find a loophole in the TWL rules and create an appeal if we choose to do so. The rules were not written by a lawyer therefore all bases were not covered.

EDIT: also as stated by the first rule in the book


1.01

When in any Trench Wars League arena during an official game, you must obey and respect the attending game Referee, League Operators, and all Trench Wars and TWL rules.




I was told by a TWL Ref that I was allowed to play and should play. Therefore, to not do so would be going against their initial ruling and therefore disrespecting and disobeying their specific authority over the TWL game.

[kthx]

Making a loud noise but not doing anything, Thunder is the perfect squad name for you guys.

[Summa]

Where in the rulebook does anything state this? There is nothing that states "a TWL Op is only a specific TWL staff member, and does not include the TWL Ref" In fact, a TWL Ref is an operator of TWL and therefore should be considered so when they give specific permission to allow a player to play the game. Whether their decision is right or wrong shouldn't be in question since they are the interpreters of the rules not you.

if you really want to argue specifics, the title of TWL op is only given to two staffers on the trenchwars.org site. those being Pure_Luck and MirrorriM, and i know for a fact that one of those two didn't approve you. and my understanding is that TWL ref's merely host the games, make sure players are rostered, and monitor the games for any obvious disturbance; whereas a TWL op runs the league and has a thorough understanding of all rules. if they were one in the same then why would they have a different title? why wouldn't all eligible ER's also be given the title TWL op? why, because they aren't ops.

[Exalt]

if you really want to argue specifics, the title of TWL op is only given to two staffers on the trenchwars.org site. those being Pure_Luck and MirrorriM, and i know for a fact that one of those two didn't approve you. and my understanding is that TWL ref's merely host the games, make sure players are rostered, and monitor the games for any obvious disturbance; whereas a TWL op runs the league and has a thorough understanding of all rules. if they weren't one in the same then why would they have a different title? why wouldn't all eligible ER's also be given the title TWL op? why, because they aren't ops.

Where in the rulebook does it state any of this? I fail to find it. Therefore you provide insufficient evidence and are thereby overruled based on hearsay. You "understanding" is based on bias opinion and not on the stated facts, and therefore shall be considered as such, opinions and not facts.

[Stabwound]

The TWL rules (http://twl.trenchwars.org/?x=info) make many references to both "TWL Operators" and "referees" and the very first rule is:

1.01
When in any Trench Wars League arena during an official game, you must obey and respect the attending game Referee, League Operators, and all Trench Wars and TWL rules.

also

1.04
Deliberate attempts to disrupt game play may result in that player being silenced or kicked from the arena by the Referee or League Operators. Furthermore, that player will be reported to the League Operators who will take further action.

They are clearly not one in the same. Trying to bring up something like this is clearly an attempt at weaseling your way out of the hole you're in.

[Capital Knockers]

Where in the rulebook does it state any of this? I fail to find it. Therefore you provide insufficient evidence and are thereby overruled based on hearsay. You "understanding" is based on bias opinion and not on the stated facts, and therefore shall be considered as such, opinions and not facts.

Dude, they've got you by the balls on the Op thing. TWL Ops and Refs aren't the same thing. Unless you had an actual Op say you can play, your point has no weight. ERs/mods even TWD Ops or smods don't count.

In addition, that rule you keep bolding is in place for an entirely different reason, you're twisting the words to suit your arguement.

Thunder stated they KNEW beforehand that I was apparently "ineligable" yet they played the game anyway without saying ANYTHING to that affect. What that means is they tried to exploit the rules and abuse them to never lose the game even if they lost the "score".

I think that can be used against yourself man. You knew this was ify before you were put in, you went for it anyways. Don't get me wrong, I think Thunder should just take the loss, but they have every right to a rematch. Honestly, if you were on Thunder's side, and you wanted/needed the win, you'd be arguing just as hard as they are. With the same points they are. This is a really silly debate, because in my mind, it's simple.

Thunder is technically right, Dynasty is realistically right. Problem is, when it comes to rules, people usually follow the technical side of things. Like I said, Streetsmart vs Booksmart - how often do you here someone say 'This should be done by the street!'

[Summa]

Where in the rulebook does it state any of this? I fail to find it. Therefore you provide insufficient evidence and are thereby overruled based on hearsay. You "understanding" is based on bias opinion and not on the stated facts, and therefore shall be considered as such, opinions and not facts.

where in the rulebook does it state that twl refs are twl ops? so i assume that those given the title twl op are the only that can approve as is stated in the rule, so thus only pl and mirr could have approved you TECHNICALLY speaking that is

[Exalt]

Dude, they've got you by the balls on the Op thing. TWL Ops and Refs aren't the same thing. Unless you had an actual Op say you can play, your point has no weight. ERs/mods even TWD Ops or smods don't count.

In addition, that rule you keep bolding is in place for an entirely different reason, you're twisting the words to suit your arguement.

actually I have an official quote from TWL OPS who said I am fine to play, however I am saving that for myself right now

all im doing at this point is just showing you how I can twist the rules around as well as everyone else can

I already know the outcome of all of this so I don't really care who thinks what right now, just bullshitting.

Karma is a bitch thunder

Edit:

where in the rulebook does it state that twl refs are twl ops? so i assume that those given the title twl op are the only that can approve as is stated in the rule, so thus only pl and mirr could have approved you TECHNICALLY speaking that is

thats up for interpretation now isn't it? Too bad for you, the Local Court, District Court, and Grand Jury all are MirrorriM. All our arguing and bitching comes down to one person, and that sure as hell isnt "summa"

[Capital Knockers]

actually I have an official quote from TWL OPS who said I am fine to play, however I am saving that for myself right now

all im doing at this point is just showing you how I can twist the rules around as well as everyone else can

I already know the outcome of all of this so I don't really care who thinks what right now, just bullshitting.

Karma is a bitch thunder

Edit:

thats up for interpretation now isn't it? Too bad for you, the Local Court, District Court, and Grand Jury all are MirrorriM. All our arguing and bitching comes down to one person, and that sure as hell isnt "summa"

thats stupid, you cant say you have a quote and not use it, it isn't valid then.

Oh but Mr.Judge, I have hard evidence to my case and innocence, but I'm going to withhold it and keep arguing?

[Capital Knockers]

Fuuuccck it, peace. B)

[Summa]

first off: owned by stab, 2nd

thats up for interpretation now isn't it? Too bad for you, the Local Court, District Court, and Grand Jury all are MirrorriM. All our arguing and bitching comes down to one person, and that sure as hell isnt "summa"

i actually agree with this, and you may think i am on thunder's side but i really hate them. if you care to read my initial post it simply said that someone most likely fucked up and gave you approval, and i don't feel thunder should have to suffer for someone's fuckups, the rest of this has just been trying to figure out who fucked up.

[pascone]

It was me!!!

[Exalt]

first off: owned by stab, 2nd



i actually agree with this, and you may think i am on thunder's side but i really hate them. if you care to read my initial post it simply said that someone most likely fucked up and gave you approval, and i don't feel thunder should have to suffer for someone's fuckups, the rest of this has just been trying to figure out who fucked up.

I don't feel dynasty should have to suffer for someone's fuckups either, they allowed me to play and so I played. If our squad knew any of this would happen I would have gladly sat out. They won despite my 0-5 not because of my 0-5. Punishing innocent players because Thunder likes to abuse the rules is bad form.

[Summa]

It was me!!!

have a cookie

EDIT: in response to exalt, that is all merely circumstancial evidence, which from my perspective does not get taken into account on this ruling, but that is not up to me as i conceded earlier