Thread not about the Thunder sub that cost Pirates the game. Don't worry.

[Summa]

Stabwound is right. Ease does lag afterall, should take that into account. I was going to spell it all out, but stab put it as simple as its going to get, don't want to get into fractions of a second here and command precidence and what goes through the server and such.

[Stabwound]

But it makes sense to die out and then get subbed? The order of operations doesnt make sense either way we look at it. Which is why sight and the order of what the bot displayed were used in the decision.

Yes. I assume you know that the TWL bots delay substitutions after the command is sent? What happened was the !sub command was sent, and during the sub delay, Ease then died. It specced him right away, as it should, and then acted upon the !sub command that was issued before the death. Due to this bug/oversight with the TWL bots, it is entirely possible to have an extra player in the game, which is what happened here. It is probably possible in TWL to get an extra "life" by substituting any player right as they're about to die.

http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthread.php?t=35981

That is a total and irrefutable explanation as to why they had a valid appeal. "Sight" is completely irrelevant in this case, and this was entirely due to with a bot bug in combination with how the game mechanics work.

[Kim]

But it makes sense to die out and then get subbed? The order of operations doesnt make sense either way we look at it. Which is why sight and the order of what the bot displayed were used in the decision.

Well at least this "theory" of dying out before getting subbed is continuous with the scores as listed in the F2 scorebox.

[Dwopple]

Okay all bullshit aside, mirror you're beating around the bush here. How can you say there is nothing you can do about this? Thunder was allowed 51 deaths to pirates' 50 deaths in a close game...unfair. If the game ended 50-37 or somethin way off then by all means you can brush it off. But it wasnt. Last i checked, 51 deaths is more than 50 deaths...unless i failed elementary.

Fact: Thunder was allowed 51 deaths...., if Pirates would have won the game the score would have been Pirates 51 - Thunder (#).
Just like this game: http://twl.trenchwars.org/?x=showmatch&match=129



The game was a close game. Not a blowout.

its not like we're asking for thunder to be disqualified from TWL.

We just want a fair fkn rematch. B)

hi

[MirrorriM]

The order of operations does not make sense to make such a justification that a player actually was subbed before they died, according to the reasoning of MirrorriM.

But it makes sense to die out and then get subbed? The order of operations doesnt make sense either way we look at it. Which is why sight and the order of what the bot displayed were used in the decision.

[Izor]

if you cant die in spec then when you hit f11 in go javs as a bomb is coming at you, how do you get in spec exactly? You cant spec while you're dead, after all. Can you provide an answer that makes sense for this? As we all know, if the person who is subbed out dies before the sub actually happens, they will take the additional death.

EDIT: fyi, ive been on the end where ive shot and killed someone thats shipchanging or speccing in pub, and theres no explosion either as there would be with a normal kill. It's a bug alright, but you cant help it

EDIT 2: in case youre slow and dont get what im trying to explain to you, the bug doesnt exist in anything the bot did, the bug exists in the transition between going from play to spec with a bullet very close to you.

[Dwopple]

Okay all bullshit aside, mirror you're beating around the bush here. How can you say there is nothing you can do about this? Thunder was allowed 51 deaths to pirates' 50 deaths in a close game...unfair. If the game ended 50-37 or somethin way off then by all means you can brush it off. But it wasnt. Last i checked, 51 deaths is more than 50 deaths...unless i failed elementary.

Fact: Thunder was allowed 51 deaths...., if Pirates would have won the game the score would have been Pirates 51 - Thunder (#).
Just like this game: http://twl.trenchwars.org/?x=showmatch&match=129



The game was a close game. Not a blowout.

its not like we're asking for thunder to be disqualified from TWL.

We just want a fair fkn rematch. B)

[Mattey]

No, that's the thing the bullet wasn't a little too late, the sub was. The bullet hit and killed him, the sub should not have counted.

READ: it's impossible to die without getting hit by a bullet, unless you live in Mirrorrim's world where people die IN spec... somehow...

[Izor]

why doesnt anyone understand that the glitch is on the other end of it? Its relatively straightforward. He got subbed out...at that point you should treat him as out of the game. Period. So any death after that point shouldnt be treated as part of the game. Theres already a delay on the sub so that you at least have a chance of killing him beforehand...too bad it was just a fraction of a second too late. Maybe you can ask them to look into the rule and how the sub works but as of now nothing illegal happened. I understand why youre mad because its pretty lame

[Mattey]

Originally Posted by Stabwound
it is literally impossible for the bot to make a mistake in thinking someone died when they didn't. The only way the bot counts a kill is when the player's client itself calculates that he has <0 energy and is dead, and then sends the packet saying that he died. Ease had 10 deaths, and that is because on HIS SCREEN the bullet hit him and he died. It is completely irrelevant what ANY spectator saw in this case.

Please explain this Mirrorrim. I mean, I know that you are infallable, but I'm just curious how you can reconcile this with what you're saying.

[Kim]

Ease has been substituted by Ardour, with 1 deaths left
T saetep> yeah
Ease is out. 12 wins 10 losses

I had no say on the decision of course, but I'm not sure if proves that this was anything more than the process by which the bot processes the *arena messages. Mattey has stated over and over in this thread, and something I can agree on, is that Ease did not die while in spec. These lines were of course printed in quick succession.

it is literally impossible for the bot to make a mistake in thinking someone died when they didn't. The only way the bot counts a kill is when the player's client itself calculates that he has <0 energy and is dead, and then sends the packet saying that he died. Ease had 10 deaths, and that is because on HIS SCREEN the bullet hit him and he died. It is completely irrelevant what ANY spectator saw in this case.

Nor have I seen a situation where a player was removed with only 9 deaths according to F2 but the bot printed out a "Player is out. X Kills 10 deaths."

The order of operations does not make sense to make such a justification that a player actually was subbed before they died, according to the reasoning of MirrorriM.

If the appeal refute was based on the fact that this was a matter of chance, not addressed in the TWL rules, it would've made more sense.

[Turban]

Also, if we are so lame knockers, care to explain this?

http://twl.trenchwars.org/?x=showmatch&match=129

First -- that substitute had no impact on the game.

Second -- they did not win thanks to that sub.

:fear:

EDIT: Third -- IT'S DISOBLIGE THEY'RE COOL! :wub:

[Ardour]

As for ardour, the self-appointed people's hero. I am disappointed that you left over something as retarded as that, however I respect your decision. In the other thread you tried to belittle me and portray me as a liar, so I just wanted to clarify that you asked if you would start A TWLB game, to which my answer was yes. As far as I know there's still a week for TWLB regular season. I will not waste time and add other things you said because I like you and respect what a private message is, however I just wanted to throw it out there that starting people is a difficult decision, which is often accompanied by extreme annoyance. I helped build this all with Underground and others, and bench myself some games for players that just recently joined. Do you think I don't want to play too?

I didnt mean to belittle you. I was just including everything of relevance that I said to the captains Vitja fludd and you as regards to starting in TWL. As eelam accused me of moaning to the captains to get started. That was the only time I talked to you about me getting to play in TWL. I only wanted to mention what was relevant. I dont mind telling everyone that you were the only captain that listened to me on Thunder. Fludd was set in his opinions and Vitja would only reply with sarcasm.

Ease I consider you to be the best player on thunder in all divisions and in the zone. You were the reason I joined thunder and stayed as loyal as I did because you act professionally, your active and you own everyone.

[pascone]

Also, if we are so lame knockers, care to explain this?

http://twl.trenchwars.org/?x=showmatch&match=129

that's hilarious

[pascone]

Drama always erupts from Thunder in TWL, every year they try to screw somebody over by finding shitty loopholes in the league rather then win games the natural way. On top of this Izor is actually on your side, I however am not because I think it is retarded. Here is a chance for you not to be Sk8, and ask Mirrorrim let this game be replayed. You are both already playoff squads as it is, so it won't even affect anything but at least it will show that your squad doesn't condone stupid fucking decisions for you, and by your asscaps/caps during games.

yet everyone hates stray although thunder ended up getting screwed!