Thread not about the Thunder sub that cost Pirates the game. Don't worry.

[Creature]

Didn't want to have to reply to this thread but the same five people are having the same discussion over and over again. Clearly some people need to learn how SUBBING WORKS.

Let's explain:

C 4:spikey> us
Ease has been substituted by Ardour, with 1 deaths left

At this point in time, the bot has recorded a substitute by Ease as the !sub command has been used. Looking at it from a programming perspective, the sub command is being called BEFORE it checks for a death. You idiots need to learn that code cannot be simultaneously read at the SAME TIME. It is technically IMPOSSIBLE for the bot to be checking for 10 deaths and applying a sub. The sub overrides and breaks the loop checking for 10 deaths in milliseconds to sub ease.

T saetep> yeah
Ease is out. 12 wins 10 losses
T ignite> whoa

How did Ease get 10 deaths if he was in spec then? On Ease's screen, due to his lag (probably 60ms) the sub has NOT occured yet. Therefore, his client is still sending packets to the bot. The bot has already completed the sub command and is now 1/100th of a millsecond going back into a loop and receieves a packet from Ease's client saying that he has DIED. Therefore, the bot finishes this loop and adds +1 to Ease's death even though he has already been subbed out. A separate function PRINTS this on the screen so everyone will cry. Contradictory to whatever you nerds are believing, the bot is STILL RECORDING statistics of players who are in spec. The method the bot is coded ensures that in order to prevent recording extra deaths, SPECS the player. Unfortunately due to the lag on Ease's screen, the bot printed out the 10 deaths when they ACTUALLY DID NOT OCCUR but ONLY OCCURED on Ease's screen. In REAL TIME, the bullet NEVER hit Ease.

Let me demonstrate with some simple pseudocoding for you nerds

for (Easedeaths < 10) {
if (sub == true) { // The bot is checking if sub used
sub Ease out for Ardour // Sub Ease out
}
return Easepacketdeaths // Get packet from Ease's client count deaths
if (Easepacketdeaths = 1) {
Easedeaths = Easedeaths + Easepacketdeaths // Add death
if (Easedeaths == 10) {
Print "Ease is out." + Easekills + "wins" + Easedeaths + "losses"
}
}

So guys, where does the issue lie? The bot completes the loop and records Ease's death from the packet that Ease sends (because Ease has not been subbed on his screen DUE TO LAG) when in fact Ease is technically never in game. You people are retarded saying he can't die in spec. Technically he CAN.

End of story. Any further questions please cry to someone who understands concept of programming and how lag works.

[Draft]

Yes it is unfortunate that you consider undoing the damage of the sub being punishment. Since you did the sub, and is responsible for this mess, then it also makes sense that you are the ones running the risk of having to pay for it if what you did actually caused damage. I don't support giving you guys any sort of extra punishment or anything, I just want the wrong thing you guys did to be undone as best as possible. A punishment would be giving you a 50-0 loss, or us a 50-0 loss. I'm personally fine with you changing the score of our loss if that makes anyone feel better.

i'd pay for it if it was on rules




edit:haha thanks for that creatnerd

[Nimrook]

for (Easedeaths < 10) {
if (sub == true) { // The bot is checking if sub used
sub Ease out for Ardour // Sub Ease out
}
return Easepacketdeaths // Get packet from Ease's client count deaths
if (Easepacketdeaths = 1) {
Easedeaths = Easedeaths + Easepacketdeaths // Add death
if (Easedeaths == 10) {
Print "Ease is out." + Easekills + "wins" + Easedeaths + "losses"
}

very good demonstration creature, but you need to work on your indenting, if i were your TA i would give you 6/10 for style.

Anyways, bots are not perfect, in this situation they did wrong. I don't get how you people trust a bot more than real eyes. Wonder why there are always some tech people as backup just incase the computer or anything computer related fails.

Like i said before in the dynasty appeal thread it's good to see how many people still care about this game. Keep it up

[Creature]

very good demonstration creature, but you need to work on your indenting, if i were your TA i would give you 6/10 for style.

I swear it's intended when I typed it..........

[Capital Knockers]

When I referred to the flag jupe I was using it to show that that was also known by the public, not mentioned in the TWL rules, the replay was also denied, and then a rule was made to prevent further problems with it.

It's pretty childish and immature that just because you didnt get your way you decide to do the same thing you have been whining about. But I know I shouldnt expect better. Which is why I'll repeat myself again and say a solution will be created to prevent this from happening again.

I'll leave you guys now to continue your discussion. I think we are now just repeating ourselves over and over and not much more productivity can come from this.

You're really good at bringing up new points, and then quickly jumping to another. Almost like going from one sinking ship to another. You brought up the flag jupe comments hoping it would help your arguements, but failed to see that it only provided a better counter-arguement. The flag-jupe can't be pulled off intentionally. Meanwhile we can have people sitting in spec ready to sub someone out. Draft it really isn't that hard, it's just timing and experience. Thing is, the majority of the TWL population isn't lame enough to even bother.

Oh and speaking of lame, Ease. That game is entirely different. I watched both in their entire length. Disoblige didn't intentionally do that, and it didn't have a direct unfair advantage for them that won them the game.

With the amount of veterans, staff members, ex staff-members, and plain witnesses - how in the fucking world can you still be not giving us our appeal MirrirriM? You refuse to address several main points from Mattey and Kthx, and the only people really supporting the denial of the appeal are Thunder and Izor. Really, what the fucking hell is the problem? If you've got this much of the community in arms - don't you think that maybe, just maybe, they could be right?

I think you're just afraid to change your mind now that it's come this far, and because so many Pirates members have gotten angry with you, you don't even want to change your mind. While I can understand that, put your emotions aside and do your job right. We obviously have perfectly legit reason for an appeal - grant it.

[Draft]

The flag-jupe can't be pulled off intentionally.

yes it can

Meanwhile we can have people sitting in spec ready to sub someone out. Draft it really isn't that hard, it's just timing and experience. Thing is, the majority of the TWL population isn't lame enough to even bother.

oh? try it some time, if u got the power

Oh and speaking of lame, Ease. That game is entirely different. I watched both in their entire length. Disoblige didn't intentionally do that, and it didn't have a direct unfair advantage for them that won them the game.

how do you know this lol

[Capital Knockers]

yes it can
It would be more of a hassle, and you'd lose more flagtime trying to set it up than it's worth. Otherwise someone would of tried it by now - aka you.



oh? try it some time, if u got the power
I don't need any power. I'm quite content where I am. Continue creaming your pants with yours though.




how do you know this lol
As I said, I watched the entire game. Doesn't take a Wizard to observe and know. In any case, it really doesn't matter because it had no effect on the games outcome - and regardless of anything, no appeal was made.

You're really an idiot draft.

edit - hey Mirr, I really hope you changing your mind - correcting a mistake and making a poll that resulting in twl starting up again a week earlier (and you getting alot of flak for it) hasn't scared you from changing a decision that is obviously wrong to the right. This is pretty much the same deal.

[PaulOakenfold]

Thread is filled with sir cares-a-lots.

Thunder will only win TWLB, this game is inconsequential and so are your theories.

[Draft]

It would be more of a hassle, and you'd lose more flagtime trying to set it up than it's worth. Otherwise someone would of tried it by now - aka you.

so it can be pulled off intentionally, thanks

I don't need any power. I'm quite content where I am. Continue creaming your pants with yours though.

i will =)

As I said, I watched the entire game. Doesn't take a Wizard to observe and know. In any case, it really doesn't matter because it had no effect on the games outcome - and regardless of anything, no appeal was made.

you watched, so you assumed, no? you didnt see what disoblige freq was saying

fuk outta hear wid that weak shit bredgin, tump u in da lip

[Mattey]

Is creature staff? The only thing I got from your post creature, is that ease got hit on his screen, that's why it counted the death, right?

[Capital Knockers]

Oh and I wanted to make this point before I went to sleep, but can't find the post I wanted to quote for it Mirr.

For the record, I still think you've done a great job. However I won't sit down and be silent when I see something obviously wrong happening. Who it works for doesn't really matter. I'd argue against people on Pirates too if I saw good reason too. Hell, I'd take Thunder's side in this issue if it wasn't clearly bs.

When you said you thought you've done a good job of keeping discussions open - you have. Why do you think so many people erupted so quickly when this appeal was shut down in an hour and the thread closed almost as fast? When you said you've done a good job of not being bias, I agree, from what I can tell you have. I don't personally think this has anything to do with bias. It's a simple combination of indisputable facts that aren't being properly addressed or answered that's pissing people off. All I can say, is when you've got this many people, from all these different squads agreeing. People from staff, people who know how bots work - all supporting Pirates. As I said, Thunder has Thunder - and Izor. Who as Wark pointed out, would be on our side if this was affecting him. In fact, I can promise you that Thunder would be using many of the same arguements we are. Of course, baring in mind that draft isn't smart enough to come up with half of them, so it would most likely be coming from other members of the community - followed by him quoting it and going YEAH!

This is quite plainly an outrage. This is the EXACT type of game that appeals are for. Appeals are meant for grey area games. If someone directly cheated or broke rules it would be a 50-0. If this doesn't warrant an appeal, we might as well rid of the option, because it's useless.

Draft - thin air can be left to defeat what you see as witty comments or arguements. I think I'm going to leave it at that.

PS- please completely address Mattey and Wark's points, as they have you by the tits.

[Draft]

bye

weed-up time afk

[Izor]

I wouldnt ever contest this. I'd say 'nice sub' and move on with it, because I've been a part of games where an extra death has come into play plenty in TWD. Its a part of the game everyone knows that. The sub delays and +1 lagouts imo came as a direct result from ignite and his PUMA squadron back in the day, who used to always run and spec (or sub) just to be faggots. At least, I remember them coming into effect right around the same time after much whining It's not going to ever be perfect and this isnt even a bot malfunction.

[Mattey]

You're full of shit.

[Creature]

Is creature staff? The only thing I got from your post creature, is that ease got hit on his screen, that's why it counted the death, right?

Simply put, the ship should never have exploded, it should have been in spec. what ever happened after that was because of bad coding and wasn't supposed to happen. Appeal should not have been accepted, because a legal sub was used. What comes to lag, you are talking of several clients lagging, that don't even fing matter. Ease's client registered the hit that should have NEVER happened because he already been subbed out, sent the "client dies" info to the server ILLEGALLY, so he should have been in spec with 9 deaths.

If you still don't understand. Reread my post again. It's very clear and explains exactly what is occuring on the coding level.