TWL Season 13....

[Doc Flabby]

Also, remove that useless playoff system. If there are 8 teams, top 4 will enter to playoffs. Not something stupid as 7 teams moving in and STATSHGSGHASG.

Dont make regular season useless again

It was originally meant to be only top 4 for playoffs. It got changed for some reason later on.

Also, is the TWD Cup happening again this Season?

Because that opens up TWL to the top 11 squads in each league anyway. (top 7 auto qualify, next 4 battle it out for the last place)

(The idea of TWD cup orgininally was to increase the number of squads able to get into TWL, and thus keep the competition open to newer squads, but ensure regular season didnt go on too long and had competative games by only having 8 squads)

[veetee]

There was a good Amateur TWL thread before last season that drew conclusions that low-tier squads would have greater incentive to be active if they played in aml version of the league to gain experience for higher tier. But, of course, we have this guy as a TWL op that will prolly be too blindfolded and stupid to notice the importance of giving opportunities to newbies, as they are the future of next seasons and apparentely - this zone. Hi, wake up.

Simply: 1-8 squads go to PRO (TWL)
9-16 go to AML

vt

[Lame]

In defense of the 10 squads, realize that there were only 4 competitive squads in twld last season; Thunder, Quake, Heavy and Pirates. On the other hand to fuel competition we had Sweet, Dynasty, Sake, Rape, Syne and Disoblige.

Probably anyone can agree that Sweet, Dynasty and Sake deserved to be in TWLD last season, and anyone can agree they were worse than the top 4. The point is that where do we draw a line with this? In all fairness and for promoting less good squads to strive for twl, I feel it is important to allow low-tier squads to enter, such as Rape. (no disrespect) Even if Disoblige went 0-9 we can't ignore the fact that they have every round played with 5 experienced warbirds and it would be terrible to leave those out just because we want to promote competitiveness. This sort of thinking is flawed because most wb's agree that there arent more than 4 good squads. Izor makes a good point in his post earlier too.

To further prove my point I will list the squads we have now and make a comparison:

Battle: while having only 20+ wbs ,and atleast 15 will bench, you would think that you need to split this squad into two to further promote competitiveness, but it's hard to captain a squad so some players will go to another squad for playingtime. (This is also a problem with less squads to choose from, there are certainly enough players to make 10+ warbird squads, how competitive they are is a different question, but realize that the less squads you have the more stacking it will become on the top 4.)

Quake: Have definitely improved their 3 league depth this season but has also way too many players who will bench. Also, you can count on even more people returning to this squad close to twl.

Rapid: Should definitely be in twl, although, last season this squad would have competed with Sake for the #7 spot, hence not so much competition.

Evil: Thunder split into two created two squads each with 40 players, hopefully one of them will not die.

Return: Syne 2.0, good enough for twl? yes, competitive? no. The question is: Will they last?

Disoblige: 0-9 last twld, still having wbs more than good enough for twld, will they increase competition? no.

Spastic: if these guys are interested they could give squads like Rape last season a good game. Does that make them good enough for twl? yes. competitive? F*** no.

And then we have squads like: Warpath, Sweet, Aimbot, Epidemic, Thunder etc. who haven't done much yet. they all have rosters to be in twl, but competitive? too early to say.

Also, without taking hopping into consideration; we have now 12 squads in twdd capable of competing, out of these squads - after all the hopping - we would probably have 10 squads with 3 squads who make the competition interesting. 3 squads arent enough to make a good season. Your only option is to invite fodder, so in the end you have 8 squads, 5 of those are fodder, there could be more than 5 fodder squads, and that's exactly my point.

Conclusion:

Restricting the numbers of squads for "competitiveness" is a terrible arguement. There needs to be atleast 8 squads in twld. 10 squads last season was fine because there were already a significant amount of fodder squads.

Reducing the number to 6, renders the playoffs useless.
Reducing the squads invited to twl will cause more stacking, less squads will be formed and sooner or later it will be like pro where you have the same squads competing for championship and new squads dont stand a chance.

I think Jones is right. Less squads in TWL = less decent squads in TWD = more oversized rostersquads. I also think 10 squads is fine and I think there should be a rule which allows squads that dissolved because of bad management, shouldn't be allowed back the season after.

[Ricko]

in reply to jones' thread: I understand the need for competitiveness in tw and i dislike overstacking squads (which i understand Battle might be right now as we have 20 players capable of wbing) but iv already said to the squad that come closer to twl, we will assess who brings what to the squad and dismiss any excess wbs who wont be getting playing time etc and could be doing more elsewhere. Plus im fairly confident a few of our wbs are here for the short term and will be gone soon and we dont really intend on recruiting anymore wbs.

P.S 8 squad twl ftw

[Salubrious]

There was a good Amateur TWL thread before last season that drew conclusions that low-tier squads would have greater incentive to be active if they played in aml version of the league to gain experience for higher tier. But, of course, we have this guy as a TWL op that will prolly be too blindfolded and stupid to notice the importance of giving opportunities to newbies, as they are the future of next seasons and apparentely - this zone. Hi, wake up.

Simply: 1-8 squads go to PRO (TWL)
9-16 go to AML

vt

There are only 24 squads on the TWDD ladder TOTAL, with #17 having a flat rating of 1000.

Don't think we need to look at the TWJD or TWBD ladder

[PH]

blah blah i want 16 squads blah blah separate amateur league like the svs trash heap that i came from

hey great idea

brb using voodoo to produce enough hosts for 16 squads

and then using more voodoo to unstack squads and keep this from being a joke

[Jones]

There are only 24 squads on the TWDD ladder TOTAL, with #17 having a flat rating of 1000.

Don't think we need to look at the TWJD or TWBD ladder

Solution: TWDD PLAYOFFS

[veetee]

1) AML can be held on a different day e.g. sunday or before and/or sunday's twl matches. You lack imagination and devotion, idiot.
2) For warbirds AML would consist of the likes: Return, Paladen, Crasian, Warpath, Ossify, Day, Leonians, Penetrate. You lack basic data analysis skills, idiot.
3) As I have written, TWL amateur league threat was made on THIS forum and the thread starter was no one else but Exalt. Does he play svs league? Don't think so. You lack the ability to understand the meaning behind elementary sentences, idiot.
4) Finally, you lack good manners because you are impudent enough to edit my post into trash with the usage of quotation and then to make a post right from your ass. That is is so unprofessional that I must assume your mental age lies within 5-14 interval, idiot

In conclusion, you are a pretendous retard and should never step up as a TWL op or anyone league-related because you will only harm the zone with your, watch out, unlimited idiocy. You are unable to confront any of the ideas you seem not to like using reasonable argumentation but you choose to produce unsupportive trash-talk. This is the 2nd time it hapened. Good job, idiot.

end of rant

P.s. I do not give a fuck about grammar or English in general

[PH]

You lack devotion

thank you for clarifying just how much stock i should put into anything you say, i was almost tricked into thinking you knew what you were talking about for a minute

jones, since you don't suffer from unwarranted self-importance like this veetee character, tell me more about these twdd playoffs that you propose and we'll work from there

[Internet Predator]

AML would not work. Who will run it? Will there be dedicated sites? Dedicated host that even twl has trouble with?

In a perfect world, we could probably have this but the world isn't perfect. I doubt anyone is willing to put in the time to coordinate a league and setup a suitable website. We all know how long it took for the current twl website took to get implemented.

It is unfair to talk about implementing a new league when it appears you just plan to shove all the work to others instead of doing something yourself. If you believe it can be done and want it that badly, show us it actually would be successful and run it yourself or ask other people instead of PH to do something about it. He is in charge of running twl, not some amateur league that really no one will give any more care about than BWC or TWDT.

[PaulOakenfold]

Just sniping this second page

What will you do about the lack of trees that infests our TWL season after season?

[Jones]

thank you for clarifying just how much stock i should put into anything you say, i was almost tricked into thinking you knew what you were talking about for a minute

jones, since you don't suffer from unwarranted self-importance like this veetee character, tell me more about these twdd playoffs that you propose and we'll work from there

In a response to this

There are only 24 squads on the TWDD ladder TOTAL, with #17 having a flat rating of 1000.

Don't think we need to look at the TWJD or TWBD ladder

I just randomly thought that after inviting the top 8 squads to twl, the remainder of twd who still wishes to "prove" something could fight it out in a simple playoff format. This would include ladder rankings from 9-12 or so. Single elimination. As I explained earlier I want as many new low-tier squads in twl while still having a small bit of competition. A compromise between people for competitiveness and people for more squads could be done by having a twl for 8 squads and still having something of value for the other squads. This would maybe also be similar to the TWD Cup we had last season, with the difference that you wouldn't be invited to twl even if you won. The winners squadname could be perhaps shown on the twdsite as a prize.

I wouldn't even suggest the need of a fancy website section or anything for this, think a controlled twd tournament for 4-6 squads, everything happening in the twd arenas. Also to save time the playoffs could take place after the qualifications end, ie. 9pm EST, depending on the amount of squads that enter.

[Izor]

1) AML can be held on a different day e.g. sunday or before and/or sunday's twl matches. You lack imagination and devotion, idiot.
2) For warbirds AML would consist of the likes: Return, Paladen, Crasian, Warpath, Ossify, Day, Leonians, Penetrate. You lack basic data analysis skills, idiot.
3) As I have written, TWL amateur league threat was made on THIS forum and the thread starter was no one else but Exalt. Does he play svs league? Don't think so. You lack the ability to understand the meaning behind elementary sentences, idiot.
4) Finally, you lack good manners because you are impudent enough to edit my post into trash with the usage of quotation and then to make a post right from your ass. That is is so unprofessional that I must assume your mental age lies within 5-14 interval, idiot

In conclusion, you are a pretendous retard and should never step up as a TWL op or anyone league-related because you will only harm the zone with your, watch out, unlimited idiocy. You are unable to confront any of the ideas you seem not to like using reasonable argumentation but you choose to produce unsupportive trash-talk. This is the 2nd time it hapened. Good job, idiot.

end of rant

P.s. I do not give a fuck about grammar or English in general

1-3) My feelings about AML are mixed because we really dont have enough squads to sustain 2 leagues and I'd much rather have a 12 squad league that we could field in TWLD this year. LD really should be its own separate entity because more different squads play it. It has probably more games played than BDs and JDs combined on the ladder (yes, im too lazy to check this). I actually think we should go the opposite direction and raise the number of squads so that more people can get playing time and hopefully we'll see more competitive squads instead of 3 or 4.

4) ph hosted almost all of HEAVYs games last season, and im pretty sure he hosted a game in every time slot for the majority of the season if not the whole season. TWLs hosts did what they did with a very small staff who were dedicated and you cant knock them for it because I consistently saw the same people on a weekly basis hosting

[Reaver]

I've gotta say it. Where the hell have you been? And by you I mean everyone that says that more squads in TWLD would be better. How many seasons in a row do you need to have someone drop out, not win a single game, or do something equally shitty before you wake up and realize that we let too many people into the league. In fact, if my memory serves me right we've had 2 squads per season do this the past two seasons.

For every person that says "if you don't let more squads into TWLD then you're not letting people get a taste of TWL which is hurting the league" I could easily make the argument that by not allowing people into TWL that obviously shouldn't have been there, it gives them something to work for. This is very basic stuff, what do you want more, something you get easily or something that was just out of your grasp? I could list example after example of where this is true.

This is somewhat offtopic but if you're concerned about squad stacking then one solution would be to put a cap on the # of players allowed per roster based on how many leagues they're competing in. For example, a one league TWLD squad could have a roster limit of 10 or 15 (obviously it should be a bit more for a one league basing squad than a one league dueling squad). Also, reward squads that stick around for long periods of time (but still qualify for TWL) to have a slightly larger TWL roster.

[Jones]

I've gotta say it. Where the hell have you been? And by you I mean everyone that says that more squads in TWLD would be better. How many seasons in a row do you need to have someone drop out, not win a single game, or do something equally shitty before you wake up and realize that we let too many people into the league. In fact, if my memory serves me right we've had 2 squads per season do this the past two seasons.

For every person that says "if you don't let more squads into TWLD then you're not letting people get a taste of TWL which is hurting the league" I could easily make the argument that by not allowing people into TWL that obviously shouldn't have been there, it gives them something to work for. This is very basic stuff, what do you want more, something you get easily or something that was just out of your grasp? I could list example after example of where this is true.

As long as TWD has been alive the competition between the last spots have been fierce, the last two seasons are no exception. So far we have established that there more squads atm than 8 who wishes to play twl, in my previous responses I proposed with Vt; either an aml for low-tier squads because simple ladder system is only prac and is boring and montonous OR a twd playoffs for only a few squads so they can feel important. Perhaps this should be discussed in the TWD section on this forum and shouldn't be something we should bother twl op's with, but this zone needs to give more than 8 squads per league something interesting to play in, imo.

Comparing previous seasons; We have GantZ with 0-10, Grapevine beating squads 50-12 etc. It has always been like this. What if we had put a limit on 6 squads last twl season? We would have had Quake, Thunder, Heavy, Pirates, Sweet and Dynasty. Sweet and Dynasty would've both went 1-4, not so great so in other words we should've only let squads ranked #1-#4 in.

My point is that there will always be a higher tier, a mid tier and a low-tier in every twl regardless of how many squads enter. 8-10 really have no difference, it just means that mid-tier squads get more wins.

Squads dropping out is more of a question about bad leadership if you ask me. Last season Syne dropped out, the same players (more or less) are now in Return, twl ops will probably think twice about letting them in this time.

This is somewhat offtopic but if you're concerned about squad stacking then one solution would be to put a cap on the # of players allowed per roster based on how many leagues they're competing in. For example, a one league TWLD squad could have a roster limit of 10 or 15 (obviously it should be a bit more for a one league basing squad than a one league dueling squad). Also, reward squads that stick around for long periods of time (but still qualify for TWL) to have a slightly larger TWL roster.

Roster limits are not the way to go, however I do agree that you dont need more than say, 12 on a twld or twlj roster.