Thunder vs Terrorist TWDTB Semi-Finals Round 2 Appeal

[Vys]

Should never of been approved.

[Majorcrisis2]

I feel like everyone on that thunderchat wants it to be approved, while all the other people think it's bullshit. I even dare to say that other way around it never would have been approved. Cuz yea we need to be glad that ease capped this twdt season, lets 'reward' him!

[Jessup]

Reasoning: As the logs and qan have proved, the bot error is legitimate glitch. .

Did I miss something here? How many years ago was this failed code inserted that didn't fix the problem that always was? lol the logic is killing me on this.. bad call .. glossed over explanation of what the glitch is and why it should override a completed game that was won in round 3 that all players have been bound by for years with these bots...?.smh? ridiculous

[skyforger]

Notwithstanding the rather obvious that has been repeated here about this being an age old feature/thing of MatchBots, consider this:

The same situation happened to Legio Xi aswell vs whoever Legio based in semis. Legio ultimately managed to win with Steadman subbed out but Legio's captain tried to sub him back in when things looked iffy. Who knows maybe getting Steadman return would have made it from iffy to completely fucked. Now if Thunder had won with Anonymous playing, would there possibly be an replay of some sort in the cards?

I sincerely doubt that, as I am not seeing Legio Xi vs whoever game under the discussion of replay. So as it is Thunder freerolled in an attempt to win as their leadership has submitted this appeal afterwards. If it was such an issue their captainship felt strongly is appeal material, you don't have your team play it out taking your chances to win. You spec and make your case to the hosts and OPs or you play it out and take whatever outcome you get. This is slimey freerolling and bad sportsmanship from Thunder captains. Respect the rest of Thunder TWDT2019 crew, gg ul.

[Vys]

We all know that this would not of been approved if dreamwin or commodo made this decision.

Last TWDT appeals was discussed on a league chat via slack which staff used. There has been no discussions on there.

A new league chat was made for the nearly appointed TWL ops, with some other ops on there, which consists of everyone who is also on thunder chat, you guys do the maths. Rediculous appeal, even more ridiculous to see it granted.

[RaCka]

I do not care about basing at all but this is pretty disappointing to see... they got a completely free round due to a bot / host error.

[Falconeer]

We all know that this would not of been approved if dreamwin or commodo made this decision.

Last TWDT appeals was discussed on a league chat via slack which staff used. There has been no discussions on there.

A new league chat was made for the nearly appointed TWL ops, with some other ops on there, which consists of everyone who is also on thunder chat, you guys do the maths. Rediculous appeal, even more ridiculous to see it granted.

Feels like certain staff have more of an ear for certain players because they think those players have pull in the community, and possibly because some people are unstable and would blackmail/lash out if they didn't get their way. Like refusing to captain another squad etc. I'm noticing a trend here.

Also if I was on thunder I would be saying no rematch, because no one controls me :P And there of course still is the possibility this was planned. Ogron who complains about everything bad in the game missed this? come on... and Ease whose been a captain for years?...

well 'played'

[Voth]

after Ease was temporarily called out for a possible lie and it was swiftly disproven, there was little doubt in my mind that this would be quickly reversed and appeal would be granted. Problem is, I feel that this is the case because of the mistake with the log, certainly not because the appeal is reasonable as it stands. Certainly an interesting turn of events... I love ss

[qan]

I have to admit, I was looking forward to waking up and reading this thread.

Ease, my apologies. I was running on only a few hours of sleep yesterday, and have a lot to get done both at work and in the spaceoffice before leaving for a business trip today, so I was working quickly. I searched the end of the log and found where you subbed out JAMAL, and then switched ships with Anonym. However, this happened in Round 3 as well as Round 2. In round 3, you didn't try to sub JAMAL back in, because it was right near the end of the round. You can see where this could lead to confusion. I was in a hurry and didn't check the timestamps.

I'm sorry for having thrown your character into question. It didn't add up for me, either. But hey, it all gave us one hell of a drama rollercoaster, did it not?

To make up for the mistake a small bit, and to help clarify when the bug existed and when it hasn't, here's a graph detailing which bots have had the bug and for how long, as far as I have been able to tell from the code.



I think one thing this makes clear is that we should really standardize this across all bots. It's confusing as all hell.

[Turban]

Did I miss something here? How many years ago was this failed code inserted that didn't fix the problem that always was? lol the logic is killing me on this.. bad call .. glossed over explanation of what the glitch is and why it should override a completed game that was won in round 3 that all players have been bound by for years with these bots...?.smh? ridiculous

this error started happening approximately 18 months ago because of someone tinkering with the bots and was never fixed due to it not being reported to any developer or league operator. an unfortunate and unexpected turn of events, and this was the first time someone appealed after encountering this specific bot error which without a doubt had a severe impact on the round. it was out of the players control and should have been properly dealt with before the series was fully played out.

nevertheless to not stray from the topic, and perhaps take a more legalistic approach on the matter, one solid counterargument for Terrorist would be the fact that there are no rules which cover cases such as this one for TWDT. in the past the sheer power of logic, common sense, and I suppose friendship according some delusional players of our community to figure out what to do with appeals of this nature. this seems to have been the case this time around as well, and I can attest that Mythril asked for my opinion and how I would handle it.

it is worth noting that we would have been accepted this appeal in a heartbeat had it happened in TWL as we have rules covering more delicate issues such as unexpected bot errors, and players in TWLB are allowed to be substituted back into the game. teams are always expected to play it out and completely focus on the game, and to deal with the aftermath after their match has come to a conclusion unless interrupted by a referee. captains are encouraged, however, to immediately inform the referee about any possible bot errors or anything else that could possibly have an impact on the game for a swift solution or answer. I doubt no one even knew who was the referee of this match as it was, to my knowledge, never announced?

[Falconeer]

I have to admit, I was looking forward to waking up and reading this thread.

Ease, my apologies. I was running on only a few hours of sleep yesterday, and have a lot to get done both at work and in the spaceoffice before leaving for a business trip today, so I was working quickly. I searched the end of the log and found where you subbed out JAMAL, and then switched ships with Anonym. However, this happened in Round 3 as well as Round 2. In round 3, you didn't try to sub JAMAL back in, because it was right near the end of the round. You can see where this could lead to confusion. I was in a hurry and didn't check the timestamps.

I'm sorry for having thrown your character into question. It didn't add up for me, either. But hey, it all gave us one hell of a drama rollercoaster, did it not?

To make up for the mistake a small bit, and to help clarify when the bug existed and when it hasn't, here's a graph detailing which bots have had the bug and for how long, as far as I have been able to tell from the code.



I think one thing this makes clear is that we should really standardize this across all bots. It's confusing as all hell.

not okay due to design decisions or a bug... so you mean the nature of the bug doesn't readily indicate it's a bug? it's not a glaringly obvious typo, or some type of failed code?

anyway, it's neat to see a history finally, i was confused quite a bit.. haha.

oh nevermind i read it wrong, must have also been tired: according to undercut.

"We also won the first round with JAMAL in. You just gonna pretend that one didn't happen? Also you know with the game having to be replayed after an appeal you technically didn't really win it, so you would have only actually won one game, just like we did."

So i guess there is precedent for an appeal.

[Efhat]

Worst appeal grant ever.

This is a great precedent we are making.

And this is why people stop playing this game.

"It's ok pal, even though you got fucked by a 12 inch cock with no lube, take this ice cream, you'll like it."


How many players on Thunder stayed up till 5 AM or 6 AM last Sunday in their time zone playing an extra basing game and had to work an hour or two later? I'm curious.

Sadly, dreamwin gets the short end of the stick again.


So now this team has to play once again on Sunday with this stupid decision in the back of their minds, if they even show up. Terrorist was the better team that day. No one expected Terrorist to win that round three.

Everyone that has been in any type of finale atmosphere knows that this "Extra game" that my team has to play now is not remotely close to the atmosphere that was there last Sunday. Different variables. And to grant this appeal and having to replay a WHOLE game is out of this world, and pathetic. Again, now Terrorist has to win THREE GAMES (one on a COLD SUNDAY where it will be the first basing game of the day) in comparison to Thunder's 2.

For the initial appeal to not be granted simply because "Ease didn't type !sub jamal:anonym" is ridiculous. What about every other point that was made in this thread in regards to it?

Ridiculous.

[ogron]

Firstly, I respect you Ease, Ogron, Jamal + crew as players and captains, some selected few as persons too. (JAMAL+crew)

Secondly, this is a very low blow. I am really fucking triggered I have to even use time arguing such matter.

Saying that you didn't know u can't sub in a player after a subbed him out is just a blatant lie and I think its ridiculous to use that as an arguement.
It's pretty much to same as appealing a game due to flag jupe by arguing that you didn't know what flag jupe is, or you knew about it but thought it magically wouldn't exists right now.

PS. Ogron you are pissing me off badly atm arguing with regular season scores, not being able to field best line in game x and other irrelevant bs about luck. You are usually quite logical with thought-process. We both have benefited/disadvantaged for not playing best lines in finals and you should know being the best team over 10 weeks has nothing to do playoff scores.

We've known each other for 10 years, and beaten each other repeatedly in TWLB and TWDT-B playoffs. I've rarely appealed anything, and never lied. We've already beaten this game, there's nothing left to prove. I'm not going to make shit up to reach a final where Legio is probably going to stomp either of us, anyway.

On Legio chat only 1 person was aware of this bug, everyone else was surprised by it

Dreamwin, even Legio's chat was unaware of this bug, a team who prefers to play you over us. Do you really think I'd let that bug stand if I was aware of it? I went out of my way to fix the bot when you were avoiding the deathtimer by shipchanging repeatedly with macros in TWDT. I have a clear and proven history of trying to get errors fixed and changes made to TWDT bots.

I was not aware of this bug in TWDT.

I cited regular season scores because they were consistent with our experience playing you in Round 1 of the Semi-Finals. Three straight games with the same result and same feeling in-game -- that our team is much better, and this should be a comfortable victory.

Round 2 was a complete joke, and everyone knows it. You can't play a round without your best shark and best spider due to a bot error and expect a positive result. I have no issue with Round 3, just like I have no issue with most of the rounds you've won against me over the years.

We didn't file an appeal when we lost Mattey for the S19 TWLB Finals and lost by 5 seconds. Commodo cheated the shit out of us S21 with forced delays to get back players and causing us to miss starters, we didn't appeal that, either. Zidane even went out of his way to get Dice un-disqualified. We were missing Solace for the current TWDT-B Semis versus you, it happens and it's not a valid appeal.

We didn't appeal the TWDT-B 2016 Finals versus Terrorist where half our team lagged out and you won the title against Power. Because missing players and lag aren't valid appeals. You've benefited from these things, as have we.

Dice got a full replay in S18 after Pandora was up 14-13 holding cram, with Dicers in disarray in spawn, with no chance of getting back up, breaking cram, and getting to the flag. I've voted as TWDT Op to fully replay a game which I was up 9-0 due to bot problems. Bot errors are valid appeals. All those games were replayed from 0-0.

Also got fucked on a flag jupe, with VIDEO EVIDENCE showing we held cram from a jupe at 13:30 to 15 minutes, in the Basing Cup Final and not given the win.

We've been screwed over non-stop in base for years, and rarely appealed.

I am telling you 100% we were not aware of this bug, and believe our appeal to be valid. Round 2 was a complete sham and JAMAL should have been able to play the round, keeping Ease in spider, and our momentum from Round 1. Instead, you were given a free round and momentum. The bot error was a complete game-changer, and I think most objective observers would agree.

[ogron]

Qan's detective work 100% validates what we've been saying all along: Re-subs have been in leagues for years, and a recently introduced bug prevented us from putting JAMAL back in the game, turning Round 2 into a joke.

The game should be replayed from 0-0, like every other replay in basing history. We won a round fairly 15-8, and they won a round fairly 15-12. Why would they start up several minutes? That's inconsistent with previous replays, and we won by a much larger margin with our full available line.

[ogron]

I guess megaman89, Zizzo, Commodo, voth, thix, Stayon, Kess, Everest, and whoever else have put their input or have replied to me have lied to me and I have been delusional about this the last 18 years I have been playing

Yes, that appears to be the case, based on Qan's research.

Cripp, I love you, and respect you immensely, but those are all Dice players + Thix/Commodo -- all people who absolutely loathe us. You can see from Rab's post that everyone on Legio had the same feeling as us -- they believed re-subs work in leagues, and were surprised when that error occurred. Logs confirm Ease tried to sub JAMAL back in at the start of the game.

We lost our best shark and best spider for Round 2 due to a recently re-introduced bug.