TW Mafia: Sweet Vengeance

[grand]

Exalt was probably the first (and maybe only) person to pinpoint the setup and he did so early on by saying it was just a bunch of vengeful townies against vengeful mafia with no night kills. Nobody really listened to him though lol

what? i?m pretty sure i said that...

[WillBy]

I knew the game was lost after I died. When Voth refused to vote WillBy the day I was pushing hard for his lynch (and WillBy flipped red), I knew he was scum. Field would've lasted the longest imo, but that was due to Voth saving him with the fake cop claim. Killing me was obviously an easy way to 'verify' his fake results, but with people like Kthx voting only townies, and every lynched townie shooting other townies, I knew the game was over.

Anyway, gg scum. You guys played well.

There's a reason I took you out. Almost picked backwards, but once again chose Exalt. Either would help us, but i thought leaving backwards alive might let the fake claim be more believable.

Super fun scum chat with field and Voth . Lots of pming led to a successful scum game. I usually like to play very independent games as scum (so as to not implicate each other) but with good players on your team, it's easy to win with just 3/13 players (thanks Halp).

Looking forward to rodney describing how ixt was literally seconds away from an instant HoF move

[RoDNeY]

what? i?m pretty sure i said that...

Its possible, for some reason Exalts name stuck out in my head. Maybe you both were onto it

[sdrawkcab]

There's a reason I took you out. Almost picked backwards, but once again chose Exalt. Either would help us, but i thought leaving backwards alive might let the fake claim be more believable.

Super fun scum chat with field and Voth . Lots of pming led to a successful scum game. I usually like to play very independent games as scum (so as to not implicate each other) but with good players on your team, it's easy to win with just 3/13 players (thanks Halp).

Looking forward to rodney describing how ixt was literally seconds away from an instant HoF move

No one listens to me when I'm yelling "we need to lynch voth" ... everyone loves exalts nuts tho

[kthx]

Was a fun game btw Rodney, more towards the end than the beginning especially. Thanks for hosting.

[the_paul]

Been a long time since I died day 1. Eat shit Downfall . Good game from the scum team, was fun to keep up with. I thought ixt played a really good game, that was encouraging to see. Thanks for the host Rodney, you're the man

[Voth]

Legendary game. Definitely different and kept us all
on our toes. Nice one Rodney.

I think one of the first things I said on scum chat was "is it me or is our scum team stacked?" It was, but who knew it was 10-3? That's tough odds even in this setup. We thought there was a third party all game.

Killing ixt was the highlight for me, though he did almost crush the entire game. Should of voted first and commented later.

[ffe]

Gg boys

[ixt]

You guys are a bunch of fools. I specifically said once willby took exalt that next phase to fking lynch field, but nobody listened and would rather continue play follow the leader. Meh but wp voth after Rodney has his writeup I have quite a few words to say to some specific individuals.

[ixt]

Guess it didn't matter either way but I overthought that a lot and was too focused on a game setup that wasnt correct.

u shud have stuck vote on voth

[ixt]

There's a reason I took you out. Almost picked backwards, but once again chose Exalt. Either would help us, but i thought leaving backwards alive might let the fake claim be more believable.

Super fun scum chat with field and Voth . Lots of pming led to a successful scum game. I usually like to play very independent games as scum (so as to not implicate each other) but with good players on your team, it's easy to win with just 3/13 players (thanks Halp).

Looking forward to rodney describing how ixt was literally seconds away from an instant HoF move

the gameplay was 4 scum 9 town with some peabrain contributing absolutely nothing

[ixt]

RoDNeY I hope u quote me on what I said in pm about my predictions on the rest of the game

[RoDNeY]

Ok this is going to be long because i have a lot to say about this game, if you want all the details read along! Beast WillBy Voth Exalt sdrawkcab the_paul field ixt kthx grand HalpDownfall ffe

TW Mafia - Sweet Vengeance

Why?

So a few games back i was perusing the mafia scum wiki looking for a fake claim because i was scum and needed something juicy. I overlooked the role possibilities and i decided Nurse would be a good claim to buy me some time. If i had claimed Nurse it probably would have worked out but i was afraid of being lynched so i saw a modifier called Vengeful and decided to add that to my fake claim. I hadn't had too much contact with the Vengeful modifier but the more i thought about it the more poetic the role seemed. Yeah go ahead and lynch me and i will have the last laugh. I really became fixated on this modifier and decided that when I hosted a game i would add a player with the Vengeful modifier in it. I really wanted to see how someone would use it and how it would play out. I also like to incite a little chaos and make people think outside the box. When i was ready to build a setup I browsed through the setups on the Wiki and one caught my eye titled "Revenge of the Vengeful" <- Click that to check it out. I thought the idea of an all Vengeful setup was bonkers and I loved it. I loosely based my setup off this. I decided to add in the Super Saints to mix it up and add a little bit of diversity so that it was harder for everyone to just role claim and be believed. It was needed to add a little bit of doubt and keep the players guessing. Thus Sweet Vengeance was born.

Rules / Balance / Roles

I knew a nightless Vengeful setup was something we had never seen here before so i stressed over and over in the signup thread and in the opening post to this game that this game was unlike any other and was NOT normal. I had to add a certain hints to the rules to help town discover the setup as Mafia would have an advantage by knowing that they had no killing role and that they all had a form of Vengeful modifier. I asked everyone and tried to emphasize as much as i could to read the rules! There was important information there that would give you clues towards the setup and help town to victory.

We had 13 players sign up so i set the balance to 10 town 3 mafia. This may seem unbalanced to the naked eye but town needed a severe number advantage to stand a chance since this was a game of percentage and chance. Every role was completely randomized and when I saw who landed on what roles and who landed on scum/town i thought it could not have landed any more perfect. One of the first things Voth said in the scum chat was "Isn't this scum team a little stacked?" It is true that a team of Voth Field and Willby is a team full of experience and a team that has been through MANY mafia games and have pulled tricks out of their sleeves many times. It was perfectly balanced however, Voth had no idea that there was 10 town. He had no idea that in order for the 3 scum to survive they needed to be smart and experienced players. The entire game could have been over in 2 or 3 phases with some lucky shots. I was glad that I had a capable scum team to really push this game to it's peak.

I wanted to make sure that everyone felt like they had a worthwhile role. Some games people get stuck with Vanilla while others get to be vigilantes or roleblockers. I didn't want anyone to feel left out so i leveled the playing field by giving everybody an equal opportunity to make a heroic play. I know I for one do get a little discouraged with a Vanilla role and it makes me not try as hard unfortunately. I decided that giving everyone a sick role would encourage them to be involved. Ixt landing as a Super Saint was perfect TBH. Nobody would policy lynch him out knowing they were gone as well. Using this style of setup i forced everyone to read into each others posts, to follow the trails of who is protecting who. You had to pick up on what people were saying and deduce their motives. You had no night actions to fall back on. PMing another player and role claiming would do absolutely nothing because the chances are they had the exact same role as you. We saw how in the beginning of the game there was PMing between players. It did not give any of them an advantage and ultimately led to their death.

One thing nobody noticed or at least didn't publicly bring up was that every "Rules" post in TW mafia history always begins with an action resolve order. For example : 1) Actions occur in this order: Target modifiers (Busdriver, hider, commuter, nexus) -> Strongman -> Action modifiers (roleblock, protection) -> Killing roles -> Miscellaneous (treestump, recruitment) -> Investigative roles. The Rules for this game did not contain ANY action resolve order, this was the first hint that there were NO roles with independent actions. If someone had noticed this when Voth claimed Day cop it probably could have pressed enough doubt to have people not believe his claim so willingly.

Most games do not include double lynches but since we had a mafia team with no killing roles and this was a night less setup I felt i needed to add the double lynch. If players decided to tie the vote and nobody was lynched then nobody would die at night and they would be back in the same position as they were the phase before. Which would have been a complete waste! So i enforced the fact that someone MUST be lynched every phase. The double lynch with Vengeful also added a layer of spice, this would give the town even better odds at shooting scum and would allow for a crazy phase change which lets be honest, excites us all.

I added this to the bottom of the rules "14) This game will be Nightless. Night phase will be instant and will be reserved for the consequences of your actions. Every action has a consequence.." I wanted again to hint towards the setup by informing you that EVERY action has a consequence, AKA every role is Vengeful.

The Super Saints were another form of balance. I knew that I wanted one on the scum team because i thought it would be way too powerful for every scum player to have a choice on who died. They could easily pick off the strongest players each time and cripple town much like Willby did when he killed Exalt. To prevent that i added one Super Saint to the scum team but in order to balance the chance there was a mass claim i needed to add at least 2 to town. I thought of this much like a masonry where its typically 2 town 1 scum. It was funny for me to watch you all debate the Super Saint claims and how many people said there is no way all 3 are town and that would be unbalanced as just claiming could confirm alignment. You are right that would be severely unbalanced which is why i was so surprised when you got rid of Grand and Ixt as the two town Super Saints nobody pressed Field as being the remaining Super Saint.

Gameplay Thoughts

You guys had me on the edge of my seat the entire time watching you discover the setup. I would wait for you to pm me with who you wanted to kill and it was a surprise every time. This was an extremely fun game to host and watch you all enjoy.

The first phase was a shot in the dark with the downfall lynch, sorry bud i know it was your first game back and these nerds were relentless. Downfall fired back by killing The_Paul, i was honestly shocked as i felt town would have learned more information if he had killed some of the other players in question. Paul was never in the hot seat and i think this was Downfall trying to make a hail mary scum kill which i can respect. Everyone wants to be the hero and here i was giving everyone the option to be. The second everyone saw they were both Vengeful it really start to set in that this was going to be a wild ride lol.

Exalt came up with a brilliant idea that i'm surprised nobody followed. Use the Vengefuls to pick off the Super Saints as nobody would willingly be the last vote on a Super Saint. If Downfall had done this he would have had a 33% chance of hitting scum.

Ixt's Big Play

Ixt really had a great game guys and none of you would have noticed unless you were in my seat. He pegged the setup, the scum team and nearly won town the game. Early on in Phase 2 he said this "One last thing. As this game is nightless setup, makes me wonder if any "investigative" roles are in play, and how they would work out. The real challenge is if there is such role, to convey information they obtained without coming straight out into the open with a role claim." He was right on the trail that it was impossible for Voth to be a day cop but nobody bit. Ixt even messaged me when he was lynched saying "The scum team is Willby, Field, Voth. Tell me i'm right. Tell me at least i'm right about Voth's fake claim" I obviously didn't tell him as i didn't want to risk ruining the integrity of the game but he was spot on.

You can see the posts im about to reference HERE if you want to see for yourself.

The Day 3 lynch was an absolute NAIL BITER. Scum team had figured out they could use the double lynch to their advantage, town absolutely sat by and watched as they formulated and switched votes to ensure a double lynch. HUGE risk by Voth and i was so damn surprised that the town let him get away with it the next day. Scum team also figured out a way to lynch Ixt but avoid his Super Saint modifier. It was VERY VERY intelligent to have Willby the last vote since he was being lynched anyways. The part that made this phase the one that could have changed the game was this...

Willby 4 Votes
Ixt 3 Votes
Voth 2 vote

In the last few minutes of the phase Voth pulled his vote off Willby and put it on Kthx who was not in the running to be lynched. This made it

Willby 3 Votes
Ixt 3 Votes
Voth 2 Votes

Voth had successfully set up the double lynch right before phase change. Sure scum was losing a member but town was about to lose 2, as good of a trade off as possible given the circumstance.

At exactly 10:10 PM Ixt typed out a post while i was in the middle of tallying the final vote count for the phase. Simply saying that he didnt believe Voth's claim. I had no idea this post was taking place as i was in the middle of writing my own. Ixt hit the send button and then decided to reply again and change his vote. At exactly the same time 10:10 PM I posted the final vote count which included Willby and Ixt being double lynched. Again at the same time still 10:10 PM Ixt made another post switching his vote OFF WILLBY AND ONTO VOTH! Unfortunately my post hit the thread before his. All 3 of these posts happened in the same exact minute. If Ixt had finished his train of thought and voted in his first post BEFORE i submitted the final vote count he would have changed the double lynch to..

Willby 2 votes
Ixt 3 votes
Voth 3 votes

This would have double lynched Voth and Ixt leaving Willby untouched. EXCEPT WILLBY WAS THE LAST TO VOTE IXT. Ixt being a Super Saint this would have killed Willby even after he dodged the lynch. Ixt would have single handedly killed 2 scum in one phase. Once Voth was dead and flipped scum and NOT day cop it would have only been a matter of time until everyone pin pointed that his results on field were fake and that he must have been protecting his scum partner. I am confident Field would have been lynched the next phase or the phase after.


This play would have gone down in fucking history, Ixt would have won the MVP by far, BY MILES. Hall of Fame move right there. Not to mention that he would have killed his arch rival Voth in this epic play. I'm sure that would have tasted sweet. It would have been such a crazy twist to the game i almost wish it did happen! Ixt was literally seconds away from making the biggest move in TW mafia history and he had no idea how close he really was...

Summary

Everyone did a great job, MVP has to go to Voth though. His fake claim helped secure him the victory by adding just enough doubt to towns head thinking that it would be perfectly balanced to have at least one investigative role. He padded himself with his night action result claims. A few players saw right through the bull shit but it was lost upon deaf ears in town. Field did a great job by just claiming his own role of Super Saint once he saw that there were townie versions as well. I expected Voth and Willby to claime Vengeful Townie once they saw everyone claim it but the day cop was a little extra spice. Super risky and should have NOT worked but it did.

A lot happened in this game and it would take me too long to list off everyone and their gut intuitions being right or wrong, I apologize for not being able to list each players achievements individually but please feel free to discuss your thoughts and your plays with each other. Everyone played a great game, scum team came to win and against HEAVY HEAVY odds walked away with a victory. Much respect. Unfortunately town fought with itself more than the scum team which ultimately led to their demise with every single lynched townie shooting another townie.

I want to thank everybody for letting me host this wild setup and for being so receptive to it. I wanted to open everyone's eyes to the possibility of what we can do here. We do a lot of Meta analysis when it comes to TW mafia games and i wanted to form a setup where Meta analysis got you no where. I think i achieved just that.

Thank you all it was a blast to host this game for you!

[ixt]

Thanks and i have some of my personal thoughts from a player POV:

MVP Scum Team: Obviously Voth. Very ballsy move to fake claim cop, as you have to carefully formulate every single piece of information then onwards as all eyes would be on you. Well played as a whole, keeping your demeanor collected and not slipping up.
MVP Town: Myself. The town's realistic glimmer of hope was when I dug out field from the shadows. I guess voth had to play along to paint himself more town, which also worked for the most part. Also with what Rodney said above regarding Voth's role thoughts.
#2 goes to Exalt tho as always with his analysis of the setup structure. Kudos

MVP: Voth duhhhh. Had he only played normally without that kind of roleclaim, game would have been much harder for scum, as Willby sort of painted a target on his back fairly early on. Good job averting attention from field for that time being.
LVP: Halp. In my books, you're just as pathetic on Jessup level now. You seldom check in to convey any thoughts worth talking about, then smack a vote (on the wrong alignment to put the icing on the cake) and give absolutely no reason for it. From what I mentioned above with that town glimmer of hope, you singlehandedly snuffed it out u tard. Having been lynched, all i could have said (and I did) was that affiliations were pretty clear from then onward, with the intention of remaining townies to catch field the phase after, but everyone seems to have tunnel vision on those lurking. I also specifically said (when i was still alive) that I could see Halp as not anti-town but just a beyond useless townie. You have no one else to blame aside from yourself for losing this game.


side note grand i dont know how you in random PM somehow averted all scum members (or did u PM at all) but that kind of move really is too risky especially just going into the game, as that gives another reason for scum to attack you while other townies don't know better.

[WillBy]

I am so tired of being some sort of scum. I hate lying to you all.