TW Mafia 2020: TIGER KING - Murder, Mayhem, Madness

[scarlet]

So wait, are you really suggesting that it would have been better for Jessup to randomly shoot someone other than Kthx to confirm himself rather than simply shooting Kthx, his alleged guilty result, to confirm himself?

No.
Nobody ever said anything like that.
What's been maintained is that jessup shooting someone else then town lynching guilty!kthx would have been better than jessup not shooting anyone, getting nightkilled, and wasting their dayvig ability.
Obviously, it would have been better if jessup shot scum, e.g. by shooting kthx. Town lynching kthx after jessup confirmed theirself by shooting someone is more or less equivalent to town lynching that same person after jessup shoots kthx. If jessup shot me, regardless of what I flip, would you have gone along with the kthx lynch? Yes? So what's the problem?

Well I'll agree with you on Exalt because apparently he is on the same page as you with the two scenarios I posted above, but I find your general sentiment here fairly ugly.

Exalt hasn't done anything scummy really, he's just gotten a lot of votes from people who are either moronic or scum. The fact that you're fine with vehicle literally telling jessup to not shoot anyone at all and just die quietly in the night but you're rabidly attacking anyone who suggested it'd be fine if jessup shot someone else and town lynched (the now 'guilty result from a confirmed daycop') kthx speaks volumes.

Maybe next time when someone drops a gigantic bombshell on the game I'll just lurk like you and many others did so that I don't get put on scarlet's short list of lynches for the day.

I'm sorry I'm not a sufficiently gangsta ass nigga to be awake and online at literally all times of every day including during the weekend.
Leaving aside the fact that that's obviously not a list of players I want lynched, why are you so afraid of being on a short list with a player you think is scum? How is the case you have on Exalt (who advocated for "Shoot kthx, or at least shoot somebody") stronger than the case on Vehicle (who advocated for "don't shoot anybody and just die in the night, or at least don't shoot anybody that isn't kthx").

[Exalt]

What's the VC for those of us too lazy to to back and find it ourselves?

[scarlet]

[1]Willby - the_paul
[1]Exalt - Kassius
[3]Kthx - Jessup, sdrawcab, OverthinkingIt
[1]Sdrawkcab - PartyFalcon,
[2]Vehicle - Exalt, scarlet,
[1]M_Leohnard - Beast
[1]The_paul - Willby,
[1]Jessup - kthx,
[3]Scarlet - Voth, Vehicle, Poopcat
Not voting: Zeebu, M_leohnard

[scarlet]

Voth's really overreacting for someone with literally no votes on him. I guess he considers a Vehicle lynch to be equivalent to dying himself.
I'm gonna go ahead and assume kthx crossing with moderator confirmed town is a sign of laziness and incompetence rather than ill intent
Poopcat, Kassius, PartyFalcon, Willby, the_paul and obviously the nonvoters all voted before jessup's hardclaim

[Voth]

No.
Nobody ever said anything like that.
What's been maintained is that jessup shooting someone else then town lynching guilty!kthx would have been better than jessup not shooting anyone, getting nightkilled, and wasting their dayvig ability.
Obviously, it would have been better if jessup shot scum, e.g. by shooting kthx. Town lynching kthx after jessup confirmed theirself by shooting someone is more or less equivalent to town lynching that same person after jessup shoots kthx. If jessup shot me, regardless of what I flip, would you have gone along with the kthx lynch? Yes? So what's the problem?

Exalt hasn't done anything scummy really, he's just gotten a lot of votes from people who are either moronic or scum. The fact that you're fine with vehicle literally telling jessup to not shoot anyone at all and just die quietly in the night but you're rabidly attacking anyone who suggested it'd be fine if jessup shot someone else and town lynched (the now 'guilty result from a confirmed daycop') kthx speaks volumes.

I'm sorry I'm not a sufficiently gangsta ass nigga to be awake and online at literally all times of every day including during the weekend.
Leaving aside the fact that that's obviously not a list of players I want lynched, why are you so afraid of being on a short list with a player you think is scum? How is the case you have on Exalt (who advocated for "Shoot kthx, or at least shoot somebody") stronger than the case on Vehicle (who advocated for "don't shoot anybody and just die in the night, or at least don't shoot anybody that isn't kthx").

Yes, I would have gone along with the Kthx lynch if you got shot. BUT if you flipped town, we lost a huge opportunity to also possibly lynch a second scum/third party and also get voting patterns to analyze D2. I'm really starting to wonder how people aren't seeing the same players just playing dumb over and over. You clearly know what you're doing and I am impressed with your manipulative abilities - it will likely work on lurkers and morons, but not me.

Exalt has outwardly on multiple occasions said And advocated for that Jessup should just shoot "someone." not necessarily Kthx. And that mindset which you yourself have echoed whether you admit it or not is extremely anti-town play.

I'm not knocking you for being inactive, you have been more active than many. But to then turn around and say that the lynch vote ahead of us rests on three players who have been out there battling while the rest of you sit on your heels and either lurk intentionally or unintentionally... well, no. For example, Backwards jumped in at an extremely strange time to vote Jessup after he had hinted at significant town powers, which ended up being BS, but at the time, voting Jessup was extremely anti-town. Guy has otherwise lurked as normal. Where is he on your list? You yourself had a vote on him - what changed?

[Voth]

Voth's really overreacting for someone with literally no votes on him. I guess he considers a Vehicle lynch to be equivalent to dying himself.
I'm gonna go ahead and assume kthx crossing with moderator confirmed town is a sign of laziness and incompetence rather than ill intent
Poopcat, Kassius, PartyFalcon, Willby, the_paul and obviously the nonvoters all voted before jessup's hardclaim

Nope - I don't trust Vehicle in the slightest, but he has been one person rationally discussing what is and is not pro-town moves, so he is not my top priority right now. The players who I know are smart players and are acting like they have blinders on are the players who concern me. Vehicle is at least confronting the elephant in the room.

[Zeebu]

Apparently I’m playing? Neat I guess.

someone summarize the situation and pocket me.

[Zeebu]

I see that jessup jessupped then got IC’d

so tell me what happened aside from that

[scarlet]

Yes, I would have gone along with the Kthx lynch if you got shot. BUT if you flipped town, we lost a huge opportunity to also possibly lynch a second scum/third party

Let's be fucking clear about this: you're supporting Vehicles plan over Exalt's(/now also my) 'just shoot someone plan'. Having dayvig!jessup shoot me (scarlet) and you lynch guilty!kthx is, according to you, WORSE than having dayvig!jessup shoot nobody and die quietly in the night after a guilty!kthx lynch. That's the plan you're endorsing by voting/fingering me/exalt over Vehicle. The difference between these plans is that scarlet gets shot in exalt's.
You driving a wagon on me now is equivalent to dayvig!jessup shooting me. Yet, you're going after me for endorsing a plan where just that happens.
This only makes sense if either: you're straight up lying, or you think that scarlet getting shot is bad for town.
Seeing as you're driving a lynch on me over this, I guess that means that you're scum.

and also get voting patterns to analyze D2. I'm really starting to wonder how people aren't seeing the same players just playing dumb over and over. You clearly know what you're doing and I am impressed with your manipulative abilities - it will likely work on lurkers and morons, but not me.

What's with this weakass posturing? I get that people are still fluffposting, but you're mostly not. The only scenario in which I could ever believe that either you (Voth) or Vehicle aren't scum is if you're totally incompetent.
I get that you're proposing the ideal (dayvig!jessup shoots guilty!kthx) but we all are, that's nothing special.
Even the fact that you'd be willing to let perfect be the enemy of good, if you weren't implicitly defending Vehicle and were just purely going after exalt/scarlet for having said 'just shoot someone', when you have the awareness of how jessup plays that you do implies to me that you're not aligned with town interests. You're willing to bet 2 lynches on the fact that jessup would make the optimal play (shooting kthx) but not willing to bet 1 dayvig shot on the fact that jessup would make the optimal play (shooting kthx)?

Exalt has outwardly on multiple occasions said And advocated for that Jessup should just shoot "someone." not necessarily Kthx. And that mindset which you yourself have echoed whether you admit it or not is extremely anti-town play.

In my opinion it's less extremely antitown than you claim, though still suboptimal. That could a difference in opinion from metagames, sure, but consider:
Vehicle has outwardly on multiple occasions said And advocated for that Jessup should just shoot "nobody". definitely not anybody that's not Kthx. And that mindset which you yourself have defended whether you admit it or not is extremely scummy play.

I'm not knocking you for being inactive, you have been more active than many. But to then turn around and say that the lynch vote ahead of us rests on three players who have been out there battling while the rest of you sit on your heels and either lurk intentionally or unintentionally... well, no.

Leaving aside the fact that that's obviously not a list of players I want lynched, why are you so afraid of being on a short list with a player you think is scum?

Eat my ass dude, are you always this lazy when driving contrived wagons as scum?
An Exalt lynch is terrible, I'm not getting lynched, a Kthx lynch is about the same as a random lynch, and a Vehicle or Voth lynch would be great. I'm for sure not advocating the Exalt or Kthx (or scarlet) lynch, just acknowledging that those are what are likely to be able to happen.

For example, Backwards jumped in at an extremely strange time to vote Jessup after he had hinted at significant town powers, which ended up being BS, but at the time, voting Jessup was extremely anti-town. Guy has otherwise lurked as normal. Where is he on your list? You yourself had a vote on him - what changed?

Only thing that changed is that Vehicle and Voth became so much scummier. Backwards is for sure more suspicious than, say, Beast, but he's not anywhere near the same ballpark as Vehicle or Voth.

Here's an ordered list of how towny/scummy I find each player. I write these a lot anyway and post them to contextualize them since I don't keep notes.
Town:
Scarlet
Jessup
More likely than balance town:
Exalt
Beast
Neutral reads:
Kassius
Poopcat
Willby
PartyFalcon
the_paul
Absolute null reads:
Zeebu
M_Leohnard
More likely than balance scum:
Kthx
OverthinkingIt
Sdrawkcab
Very likely scum:
Vehicle
Voth

The only lynches I would be happy with would be Vehicle/Voth.

---

@Zeebu
During the jessup hardclaim Vehicle said "don't shoot anybody, or if you must then only shoot kthx", while Exalt said "Shoot kthx, or if you must shoot somebody and we'll lynch kthx". Vehicle also seemed to buy jessup's claim. On the basis of this, Voth had decided to go after Exalt.
After it was shown to be a fakeclaim, I showed up and supported Exalt's position. On that basis, Vehicle/Voth are pushing my wagon now.
Kthx is being lynched by the thoughtpolice for purely meta reasons, though he's also been totally useless all game.
That's about it for all the active wagons right now that aren't just votes left behind from people who haven't posted in a day.

[scarlet]

Zeebu
Most of the first 9 pages are about me trying an infinitely less effective gambit of a similar type to jessup's fakeclaim where I fakeclaimed cop, jessup's setup to the fakeclaim, some meta-arguments and cultureshock, and people complaining about lurkers/activelurking. Almost none of it has been brought up since jessup's hardclaim.

[Zeebu]

Why would you fake claim cop, that’s pretty dumb in just about every scenario I can think of

[scarlet]

Why would you fake claim cop, that’s pretty dumb in just about every scenario I can think of

To achieve something similar to what jessup achieved here.
I only backed out because I was worried about being CC'd by a moron.
I'm confident in my ability to not be lynched and was gonna rely on that rather than a mod-clear.

[Zeebu]

So you’re saying jessup actually achieved something?

[WillBy]

Is it weird that I kind of want to lynch kthx now? I feel like it's the most informative lynch. Just look at the people who wanted him shot or the people who didnt want him shot. It's like a day 1 lynch but kuch more informative. Unfortunately I think too many of us didnt believe in the bullet, so maybe just a bad tangent to go down. Might inform on Voth/vehicle, but not a better lynch than voth/vehicle

[WillBy]

Sorry I had one more random thought:
Vothicle

That's all.