Why I am voting for bush

[Squeezer]

I agree Epi....dont preach to the choir if ure not gonna sing.....but still.....u guys look at all the negatives of George W. Bush....now there are some negatives....but there are also a few positives as well.....Military Join Rates have skyrocketed......thats always good....and the general Consensus for youths 13-18 on military service has also gone up....and lets not Forget that Bush started the War on Terrorism....something that needed to be started....Bush also took Saddam out of power...and he allowed more ppl from mexico to cross the border into America....something that i think is good....yeah the guy has screwed up a lot....but there are also things that he has done right...Now as far as our forefathers are concerned....who the fuck knows what they would have thought.....none of us were around during that time.....so hey none of us can truly know what they would have thought.....i dont know anyone who has met Thomas Jefferson or Benjamin Franklin......now.....there is one thing i will never ever accept or support and i wanna hear ure guys' opinions on this....so hear it goes.....I ABSOLUTELY 100% AM AGAINST the Patriot Act....WTF is that.....have none of the supporters of the Patriot Act read "1984" by George Orwell? If not then i suggest u do.....because that's what the Patriot Act is.....it's an act that allows the Government to control us even more than they do....and if u dont believe the Government controls us.....then look around some time.....look at Billboards and how they advertise for companies like the GAP.....politicians get there money from big companies....and big companies get their money from us therefore with every pair of GAP jeans u buy....ure supporting another politician who will endorse these products.....i dont know if GAP supports ppl but its just an example....Now back to the Patriot Act....I do not understand why someone could vote for something that takes away our freedom to "protect" us from the big bad Terrorist.....The average person isnt attacked by terrorists....and with the exception of 9/11 there havent been many major Terrorist attacks on America in the past thirty years....9/11 was essentially the terrorists taking advantage of America's "no one can touch us" attitude....and they exploited it.....All the patriot act does is allows the Govt. to view and know everything we ever do or have purchased....they will know where we are at all times.....they will know everything about us.....and yeah that's great for the 2 or 3% of ppl who are Terrorists and Criminals and need to be observed...but the other 95% or so of the country are just ppl trying to make a way through life....and i dont think we should have our liberties stripped of us because of a few terrorists....and the rich portion of America's fear of them

[bloodzombie]

I agree Epi....dont preach to the choir if ure not gonna sing.....but still.....u guys look at all the negatives of George W. Bush....now there are some negatives....but there are also a few positives as well.....Military Join Rates have skyrocketed......thats always good....and the general Consensus for youths 13-18 on military service has also gone up....and lets not Forget that Bush started the War on Terrorism....something that needed to be started....

I didn't even get through your whole post... mostly because of the dots, but partly because I just coudln't wait to jump on this.

He started the war on terror? Do you not believe that ANY president would've attacked afghanistan? That was a no-brainer. Then what did he do? he RUSHED into Iraq (I'm not entirely against the war, I just think he should've let the weapons inspectors have the 4 more weeks they wanted to finish the job and maybe we woudln't have alienated the entire world, and maybe the war could've been found unnecessary altogether).

You know Bush opposed forming the department of homeland security? Now he talks about how great he is for starting it.

He opposed the 911 commission, but now he talks about how important it is.

Military join rates skyrocketed after 9/11 because people wanted revenge, that would've happened without Bush. Then the following september Bush increased their combat pay and benefits. A great political move, and I'm sure that helped increase join rates. BUT then in 2004, he actually proposed cutting their benefits and combat pay back down... and what's he doing about all the reservists who've been overseas so long their health insurance for their families is ready to lapse?

So what has he done now?


EDIT: ok, read the rest and it's about the patriot act, which I pretty much agree with.

[Evasive]

I agree Epi....dont preach to the choir if ure not gonna sing.....but still.....u guys look at all the negatives of George W. Bush....now there are some negatives....but there are also a few positives as well.....Military Join Rates have skyrocketed......thats always good....and the general Consensus for youths 13-18 on military service has also gone up....and lets not Forget that Bush started the War on Terrorism....something that needed to be started....Bush also took Saddam out of power...and he allowed more ppl from mexico to cross the border into America....something that i think is good....yeah the guy has screwed up a lot....but there are also things that he has done right...Now as far as our forefathers are concerned....who the fuck knows what they would have thought.....none of us were around during that time.....so hey none of us can truly know what they would have thought.....i dont know anyone who has met Thomas Jefferson or Benjamin Franklin......now.....there is one thing i will never ever accept or support and i wanna hear ure guys' opinions on this....so hear it goes.....I ABSOLUTELY 100% AM AGAINST the Patriot Act....WTF is that.....have none of the supporters of the Patriot Act read "1984" by George Orwell? If not then i suggest u do.....because that's what the Patriot Act is.....it's an act that allows the Government to control us even more than they do....and if u dont believe the Government controls us.....then look around some time.....look at Billboards and how they advertise for companies like the GAP.....politicians get there money from big companies....and big companies get their money from us therefore with every pair of GAP jeans u buy....ure supporting another politician who will endorse these products.....i dont know if GAP supports ppl but its just an example....Now back to the Patriot Act....I do not understand why someone could vote for something that takes away our freedom to "protect" us from the big bad Terrorist.....The average person isnt attacked by terrorists....and with the exception of 9/11 there havent been many major Terrorist attacks on America in the past thirty years....9/11 was essentially the terrorists taking advantage of America's "no one can touch us" attitude....and they exploited it.....All the patriot act does is allows the Govt. to view and know everything we ever do or have purchased....they will know where we are at all times.....they will know everything about us.....and yeah that's great for the 2 or 3% of ppl who are Terrorists and Criminals and need to be observed...but the other 95% or so of the country are just ppl trying to make a way through life....and i dont think we should have our liberties stripped of us because of a few terrorists....and the rich portion of America's fear of them

Hey idiot, learn to use periods. No one is gonna read that shit.

[Squeezer]

Hey idiot, learn to use periods. No one is gonna read that shit.

being nice really doesnt hurt neone.....u should try it sometime

[Troll King]

I'm sorry, but those ellipses are starting to get annoying. I wouldn't mind so much but they're distracting me from some of your better points.

I tried asking you nicely earlier and that didn't seem to work. At least he managed to get your attention.

[bloodzombie]

I didn't even get through your whole post... mostly because of the dots
.

Ditto

[Liquid Blue]

Well, Liquid, I never said he was a "true hero of America". I said the forefathers were. Read what I typed and you will see what I said. I did say that he would be supported by our forefathers in this decision, however, considering that Kerry is far from a better option in things that matters most.

Another thing. ~900 or so soldiers have died. That is damn good compared to other wars that have been fought! This war was a good thing. I don't know how many actual soldiers you have actually talked to, but I know *indirectly* many soldiers who are either out there right now or are back already (I'm from a military family) and by far the majority of them support the operations in Iraq. They see the evil they have whiped away and the new life being brought to the people (who by the way DO appreciate the Americans in most Iraqi cities and towns, it is only those that are dominatly hostile that they may not). Anyway, yes death is sad...but these young men and women died defending honor and freedom, and have given this nation another chance.

Liberals seem to dwell only on any possible problem that can be had with a particular issue, rather than focusing on any good. I truly feel sorry for any group that believes they are "Optimistic" and "Focused on the good" when only bad and evil has come from the mix. Kerry, take your "I support the American Family" bullshit elsewhere...nice work trying to buy off the American public with words...you seem to be succeeding.

Damn good compared to other wars we fought? My mind is getting foggy, could you remind me of the other wars that we fought which were founded on fake evidence and shady lies? War is never a good thing- a necessity sometimes, but never a good thing. There is a difference between supporting the operations in Iraq and supporting the troops. We shouldn't even be there, yet you say they died defending honor and freedom. This might come as a shocker to you, but we were the ones attacking. They defended nothing, the soliders were only following orders. At the time they might have thought that they were actually helping get rid of a pyscho with nuclear arms, but we all know how that story turned out :down: .

Your whole last paragraph sounds so hypocritical that I don't even need to really comment on it. Replace Kerry with Bush and liberals can say the same thing about you.

EDIT: Yea Squeez it's kind of annoying to read your posts. Periods are your friend, buddy :up:

[za gophar]

i am a victim of a conservative upbringing. yes, a victim, and i am scarred because of it. my upbringing was strict but loving, but not open. for instance when i was little i was watching the little mermaid with my mom and i was like "ariel has big boobs" and she was like "who taught you that?" in an accusatory way. just a small example that illustrates things my parents should have accepted as natural but they weren't down to earth about it, so i felt more and more restricted in what i could say around them and not get them on their high horse. my dad nervously made a truely pathetic attempt to give me "the talk" when i was in like fourth grade, and it consisted of, "you know that the male sticks his penis in the vagina, right?" "yeah." "ok good."

i really do love my parents, but i do not feel close to them, and i really am jeleous of people who are. me and my dad's main form of communication is grunting. and i really cant talk much with my mom either... they dont know the true me. as a result of this upbringing i feel like i have a little more trouble with intimacy to friends and family than most people i know. my sister does too. in relationships i rarely make first moves because i fear that i'll be rejected. and it's from how i was brought up, i know this.

so anyway, the consevative values thing doesnt cut it with me. they seem to value a strict but loving upbringing and tend to be more closed about things like sex. frankly, they also put way to much value on money. i mainly value understanding. also, seeing things from different perspectives, and learning from mistakes rather than being taught never to make them, like a trained dog.

[genocidal]

It's funny that u guys complain like this but to be honest.....Hairy is right....do u understand how we are viewed by the "Greatest Generation?"...I was watching the D-Day memorial a couple of months ago.....and they interviewed a man....who was an American Veteran of Utah Beach....He said that he supported the troops.....but he did not support the fact that our country did not back them....he thought it was pitiful that his best friends and brothers died for this country to see their death's go to waste because a generation like ours is afraid of war.....he said they were afraid but they did their duty....and he finished by saying that we shouldnt beat around the bush....no pun intended.....and that President Bush should reinstate the draft....Now this made me very curious as to what other Vets opinions were....so i watched a few more interviews....and pretty much the same answers came up.....these men feel our generation is full of pussies.....and when u think about it we kinda are.....we were influenced by the generation before us....which was filled with ppl who came back from Vietnam afraid of everything......and if they didnt go off to Vietnam then they were peace lovin Hippies.....and no one wants to be hippies....Finally in closing....I thought to myself ok these views could be a little skewed....so i asked two ppl i knew personally who had survived WWII.....I called my grandfather last night to ask him....and he said the same thing.....that he fought in Japan and saw and did things that he never wanted to talk about or do again....but he said it was his duty....and that he is tired of seeing us take advantage of his sacrifices.....I then went to my neighbor's house shortly before deciding to post this.....u see his grandfather fought in Europe.....and though he did not fight in D-Day....he served under Patton.....and he said to me that my generation needed to "suck it up, and trust your president. Not everything," he says, "your going to agree with, but you have got to trust the fact that he has America's best intentions at had. I'm sure there isn't a president that will be elected that wants America to fall." I find this to be very truthful....If the draft was reinstated tommorow....Most ppl would flee to Canada....Now i can sit here and say i Wouldnt....but i never know until the situation comes up

But to counter my own point.....and make this easy on u guys......World War II definetely had a much better cause to fight....than the Iraq War.....but lest we all Forget the Modern Pearl Harbor.....9/11.....and if 9/11 isnt a cause to go to war....then our generation seriously needs to rethink itself

OK well I did read this despite the lack of organization or sentence structure. All you are telling me is that some old veterans from the pre-TV and pre-internet and pre-media revolution era are saying that based on their limited knowledge of current affairs and their great trust in a few men and women to determine the fate not only of our country but many countries around the world. If it's patriotic to be blind and just "suck it up" when politicians do something that I don't want to do, ie kill people, then fuck patriotism. I'm not un-patriotic don't get me wrong. I love this country, how it works, and how it can change but I do think that there are many things fucked up with this country. If that makes me a hippie then fine, I've been called worse things. I would never trust someone like George W. Bush and just "have faith" that things will turn out OK. I mean, they MAY turn out OK for me as a white male American but I'm POSITIVE they aren't turning out alright for the family whose house got bombed outside of Afghanistan because the US military fucked up or just felt like killing some people.

[Epinephrine]

Damn good compared to other wars we fought? My mind is getting foggy, could you remind me of the other wars that we fought which were founded on fake evidence and shady lies?

Not that I'm not on your side, but Vietnam... Tonkin Gulf anyone?

-Epi

[pv=nrt]

Although it seems to me that pv is just a troll as it seems his views aren't entirely coherent throughout the thread I'll respond to this one line.

maybe it's me, but i thought i was following the conversation.

There's a little thing called education my dear pv. Not everything you learn has to do directly with getting a job... You can get most jobs with any sort of degree. Sure you might never use that history degree or that philosophy degree for anything related to employment, but it doesn't mean it isn't important to know these things, and have this knowledge continue in our society.

the bold is my emphasis. That's what I just said. Why not make it a general degree and not make people suffer through crap they don't wanna know but are taking it because it's easy. Anyway I have used one quote in my life to make a lot of decisions
"Don't let your schooling get in the way of your education" Mark Twain
I didn't say anything was wrong with being a renaisance (sp?) man. I am just saying if people are getting a degree just to get one, then stick them in a special program.

Perhaps you support the Republican (hell North American cause they're doing it here too) ideals that education should only be about getting a job. Math and science are more important than Shakespere, philosophy and music. Hell supplying the football team with copious amounts of money is more important that having a music program right? This view is so amazingly flawed that I hope the people who support these things never make it so. But then again that's the way education is heading these days as more and more money is being cut from programs which are deemed 'non-essential'. What's the point of having a society that has a lot of knowledge but does not know how to express this or think? None at all.

perhaps I don't? I never said one thing about taking only your major's classes or not learning other things.

I think it's highly overlooked but the most important people in history have been philosophers. Without these people who were mostly very learned men who studied a variety of subjects and talked about new ways of thinking, the world would still be in the middle ages, and all the computer/engineering knowledge in the world wouldn't matter.

I think the job description of a philosopher is a lot different than it was back in the old days. It's true but back then you could easily be a scientist,philosopher,mathmatician, and engineer with only 5 years of school. Well, I don't know if it's 5, I dont feel like researching it.

anyway, was that coherent enough for you? I couldn't reply earlier I was/still am at work.

[Squeezer]

OK well I did read this despite the lack of organization or sentence structure. All you are telling me is that some old veterans from the pre-TV and pre-internet and pre-media revolution era are saying that based on their limited knowledge of current affairs and their great trust in a few men and women to determine the fate not only of our country but many countries around the world. If it's patriotic to be blind and just "suck it up" when politicians do something that I don't want to do, ie kill people, then fuck patriotism. I'm not un-patriotic don't get me wrong. I love this country, how it works, and how it can change but I do think that there are many things fucked up with this country. If that makes me a hippie then fine, I've been called worse things. I would never trust someone like George W. Bush and just "have faith" that things will turn out OK. I mean, they MAY turn out OK for me as a white male American but I'm POSITIVE they aren't turning out alright for the family whose house got bombed outside of Afghanistan because the US military fucked up or just felt like killing some people.

All im really trying to say....Is that Bush does not mean for bad to happen...and he is not as stupid as the media makes him out to be....i mean u gotta have a lil bit of intellegence to become the most powerful man in the nation

[Liquid Blue]

Not if your daddy is Bush senior.

[tel cat]

Cheap Petrol ...

They say that months after the War on Iraq, there would be cheap petrol.
They say that months proceeding the presidential election, there would be cheap petrol.

I waited months after months ... there is no cheap petrol.


Conclusion I reached 'THEY LIE!'
Put peace, economy and employment aside, THEY EVEN LIE ABOUT CHEAP PETROL, BASTAGE!!!

[genocidal]

They say that months after the War on Iraq, there would be cheap petrol.
They say that months proceeding the presidential election, there would be cheap petrol.

I waited months after months ... there is no cheap petrol.


Conclusion I reached 'THEY LIE!'
Put peace, economy and employment aside, THEY EVEN LIE ABOUT CHEAP PETROL, BASTAGE!!!

TelCat speaks.