bush wins

[Fallen Angel]

The problem with the whole abortion issue is that some people are unable to objectively distinguish between a month old fetus and a full grown baby.
A month old fetus cannot be considered alive, according to biological definition, so removing it does not constitute murder, because murder requires the taking of life.

[Hairygroin]

eh, biologically speaking it DOES have life (because the cells are alive), and it also is just beginning to take shape. What's there certainly isn't dead.

And the reason why I said "kill the rapist" isn't because I meant to murder him, but to arrest him and put the bastard to death. He really messed up someone's life, most likely he is a sex addict and he might do it again, and he is a danger to those around him. And yes, I do agree with the death penalty. Rather than spend $$ keeping the bastard in prison, get rid of him. Also, it helps discourage further rapes.

As to the whole "a baby as the product of a rape is still innocent compared to any other baby", that is very true. The only reason why for now I agree with abortions in this case is because we simply don't have the positive climate, financial backing, and emotional support needed to give the victim the help she needs. I AM against abortion, period...but until a better solution exists in this case, unfortunately this will have to do .

[SpiderMage]

Welcome to Dubbaya Dubbaya III everyone.
Hope everyone living in the US is ready to be drafted.
Texas vs the World!! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!

And the whole abortion/same sex thing, let's get it straight, use a simple little scenario that is not on the same level, but has the same basis.

The Government wants to tell you who you can and cannot marry.
Do you like this statement?
Now for the comparison.
Did/do you like it when your parents tell you that you can't go out with a certain girl/guy?
So why is it ok for the Government to tell people, namely ADULTS, conscenting adults mind you, who they can and can't marry? And please, give some other reason other than "the bible says so", thanks.

Now for abortion. Plain and simple, it's the WOMAN'S choice, no one else's. Don't give me this bullshit of "oh take responsibility for yourself" because so many people do take responsibility, but there are some that just CAN'T or realized they weren't ready. It's not for anyone else to decide, not the government, not the bible, not your best friend it's the woman's choice. That's why women have rights, to choose what they wish to do. Just like everyone else has rights to choose what they want to do. Compromise and say they can't have an abortion after the first trimester if you want unless it will harm the mother, but pure and simple, just like your life is your own to make choices for, so is it women's lives to make choices for what they are carrying inside them that hasn't been born yet. Stop with the religious reasons, because there is no proof that ANY religion is right or wrong, not Christianity, not Buddhism, none of them, so basing things on religion is just wrong, because not everyone thinks or believes the same.

And don't come at me with the "well Christianity says killing people is wrong" crap, because Christian or not, even if you are a damn Atheist, you know that taking someone's life for something other than self defense is wrong. And until a child is born, or in its second trimester at least, scientifically, it is not alive, it is not a person.

Thus the Government has no right to press its beliefs on the people, it's been done with Kings and Queens, and that didn't get very far.

[Hairygroin]

can't or realized they weren't ready? Naw, its an inconvenience. If someone realized they weren't ready, they wouldn't keep going. They would stop so as not to make the same mistake. But that's not how it goes. There simply is no recognition of anything within the mother, and it has no rights to fight for itself.


If you carved the unborn young out of a female squirrel, PETA would throw your ass in jail. Yet we carve out our young by the millions. Human life is respected even less than animal life these days!

[SpiderMage]

can't or realized they weren't ready? Naw, its an inconvenience. If someone realized they weren't ready, they wouldn't keep going. They would stop so as not to make the same mistake. But that's not how it goes. There simply is no recognition of anything within the mother, and it has no rights to fight for itself.


If you carved the unborn young out of a female squirrel, PETA would throw your ass in jail. Yet we carve out our young by the millions. Human life is respected even less than animal life these days!

You do know, that someone can realize they weren't ready for a child after sex don't you? You also realize that sex can be had for just pleasure, hence why people stock up on condoms and birth control and that accidents can happen.

[Fallen Angel]

...

Bad formulation on my part.
I was referring to the seven signs of life. A month old fetus doesn't display nearly enough life signs to be considered a sentient individual life form, let alone a human life form.

[Fallen Angel]

...

Double post (meant to edit my previous one):


Abortion is a seperate issue that we've discussed here before with little succes. Let's not deviate.

[froedrick]

Like I said before pandagirl. We've been discussing this issue for more then 4 months and all my opinions are in those threads. If you didn't read them (which they actually have real logic behind them other then mindless rants) tough shit. Go read up or get the fuck out.

Secondly, when the fuck did I ever say I supported Kerry? There is a difference between hating Bush and supporting Kerry. I'm a Canadian, I just don't want a moron to be running a country with 2000 nukes. I don't want to die you see, I'm sorry if you feel differently about death and all, I know you wanna commit suicide and all.

Thirdly Hairy, if you consider it alive because it has cells. Then you also believe we shouldn't kill animals. They have cells that are living and are quite complex creatures themeselves. The difference between 'us' and 'animal's is supposed to be consciousnous. Well when you're a fetus you certainly don't have some sort of concious thought process. Therefore you're not really a human yet are you.

Fourthly, hairy you're the reason the US sucks. And panda stfu you virgin.

[bloodzombie]

If you carved the unborn young out of a female squirrel, PETA would throw your ass in jail. Yet we carve out our young by the millions. Human life is respected even less than animal life these days!

Nobody has to take care of that baby squirrel. That baby squirrel isn't going to grow up in a loveless household. He won't grow up feeling like an invonvenience with no father. He won't eventually go out and impregnate another squirrel and then not take care of that baby. he won't be far more likely to rob or kill another squirrel because of his upbringing.

These babies are not just an inconvenience that people can just adjust their lives for. In most cases these are young girls who don't have any money and are not fit to be parents. "then don't have sex" you might say.. great, perfeect solution, you go tell them that. Tell them until you're blue in the fucking face, but guess what, they WILL have sex, and they WILL get pregnant whether abortion is legal or not.. that's the big thing that you're completely ignoring... they WILL have kids that nobody wants and those kids WILL repeat the cycle.

[froedrick]

5:concealed> whatever, i voted for bush mainly because of personal economics, my familys republican tradition, and his position on the death penalty and gay marriage

5:concealed> the poorest people overall are voting for bush (midwest), thats my opinion, and thats why i voted.



Dood you seem like a nice guy. But these things are exactly the reason why I hate oh 57 million Americans.

[Sarien]

I'm from northeast Kentucky, and I voted for Kerry, naturally. I've never been actually ashamed of being from a rural area until now. My only consolation is that my county actually voted Kerry.
I'm not sure how to write what I want without taking about 50 thousand words to try to explain it in detail how/what/why, but I will try.

Abortion: It's not my body, I'm a guy. If I somehow magically impregnate a girl, and she wants an abortion, even if I don't agreeor am hurt by the loss of my child, it is HER body. I don't regard people as natural perfectly wonderful specimens of light and truth. People are fucking upright apes, nothing more. We learn only what we're taught or figure out, so if I didn't want the kid, and she didn't want the kid and she waited til it was born and drowned it in a sack, then it's no more of a loss than if it had been a sack of puppies.

Gay Marriage: Legally there should be no distinction between men and women. Secondly, what all the idiots that voted for banning gay marriage failed to fucking realize: If you ban gay marriage, and like ohio ban civil unions, guess what you just did? You've banned legal rights for even male-female relationships that aren't legally bound in marriage. Yay Baptists.

All this Religion and shit. Bertrand Russel was right.
Fuck George Bush, and fuck every religious zealot that voted for him.

You find as you look around the world that every single bit of progress in humane feeling, every improvement in the criminal law, every step toward the diminution of war, every step toward better treatment of the colored races, or every mitigation of slavery, every moral progress that there has been in the world, has been consistently opposed by the organized churches of the world.
-Bertrand Russel

[Escalate]

Nobody has to take care of that baby squirrel. That baby squirrel isn't going to grow up in a loveless household. He won't grow up feeling like an invonvenience with no father. He won't eventually go out and impregnate another squirrel and then not take care of that baby. he won't be far more likely to rob or kill another squirrel because of his upbringing.

These babies are not just an inconvenience that people can just adjust their lives for. In most cases these are young girls who don't have any money and are not fit to be parents. "then don't have sex" you might say.. great, perfeect solution, you go tell them that. Tell them until you're blue in the fucking face, but guess what, they WILL have sex, and they WILL get pregnant whether abortion is legal or not.. that's the big thing that you're completely ignoring... they WILL have kids that nobody wants and those kids WILL repeat the cycle.

and bz doesnt even bring up the biggest distinction that makes the squirrel analogy so misleading and worthless: the squirrel doesnt have the ability to give its consent to have a fetus "cut out" of it. people do. you religious fuckheads need to worry about yourselves and stop trying to control the way other people live and the way that other people treat themselves (drugs), anything growing inside them (abortion), and who they can have a state sanctioned relationship with (gay marraige). get the fuck out of other people's lives, go thump a bible and shove a cross up your ass if you have that much free time. im so sick of you fucking people.

[Awesome]

i decided to post it and just chose one of the fucking shitload of bush/kerry threads ...the newest one at the time... and posted it.

if there was some sort of conversation going on, i skipped over that part. screw it.

americans were idiots for voting for that redneck 4 years ago, and you renewed my belief that you are all dumb by doing it again.

way to go, jackasses :bigups::bigups:

What of us that think Bush is an ignorant and stupid individual? What of us that voted for someone else? We're all stupid because some people are ignorant twats and dont research the candidates and vote by name recognition?

those people who agree that bush is a homo are fine. there is no group of people in the world where 100% of them are ALL bad/dumb people and this applies to the USA as well. The ones with common sense are still the exeption to the rule in my opinion but still the majority of your country seems to be filled with idiots who suffer from severely low IQs since that dumb fuck got elected again.

in conclusion, America = Not All bad ..... but most of it is.

[Gemfire]

in conclusion, America = Not All bad ..... but most of it is.

Thats better. :P

Heres my opinion on abortion and gay marriage(If you plan on dissing my opinions then go fuck off, theyre my opinions and I have a right to them)


Abortion: I have mixed feelings on abortion, I am against abortion yet I do believe it ultimately is the woman's choice if she should have to carry it around for 9 months. If someone I knew had an abortion because she couldnt keep her legs crossed with her boyfriend, I probably wouldnt speak to them again, I just wouldn't be able to. Incest and rape I'd understand them wanting one and it wouldnt bug me as much.


Gay Marriage: People are only against gay marriage because they are afraid. People are afraid of what they do not understand. If two same sex couples love each other, why shouldn't they be able to express it in the ultimate public form? Why should two people who love each other be denied the rights that a heterosexual couple get for being married? Don't give me any of this 'It's in the bible" bullshit. The bible is outdated, and frankly sometimes I wonder if there is a god(I guess you could call me Agnostic).

For all of you that will probably flame me for this post, go ahead because I know at the end of the day, I'm not as ignorant or stupid as you are.

[SpiderMage]

Thats better. :P

Heres my opinion on abortion and gay marriage(If you plan on dissing my opinions then go fuck off, theyre my opinions and I have a right to them)


Abortion: I have mixed feelings on abortion, I am against abortion yet I do believe it ultimately is the woman's choice if she should have to carry it around for 9 months. If someone I knew had an abortion because she couldnt keep her legs crossed with her boyfriend, I probably wouldnt speak to them again, I just wouldn't be able to. Incest and rape I'd understand them wanting one and it wouldnt bug me as much.


Gay Marriage: People are only against gay marriage because they are afraid. People are afraid of what they do not understand. If two same sex couples love each other, why shouldn't they be able to express it in the ultimate public form? Why should two people who love each other be denied the rights that a heterosexual couple get for being married? Don't give me any of this 'It's in the bible" bullshit. The bible is outdated, and frankly sometimes I wonder if there is a god(I guess you could call me Agnostic).

For all of you that will probably flame me for this post, go ahead because I know at the end of the day, I'm not as ignorant or stupid as you are.

Gem = :up:
Escalate = :up: as well

If you are religious, fine, that's great, 'm happy for you. But the thing is, YOU are religious, YOU belive in god, that doesn't mean EVERYONE has to think like, or follow the same ideas as YOU. Back off, let people live their lives how they want.

By the way, for all the bible thumpers, there is nothing, no where, that says the bible is true, except for the bible. There's countless numbers of religious books that say they are the only way, so how can you be sure the bible is the only right one? Maybe they are all wrong, but then, that's a different debate for a different thread.