Muhammad cartoon row intensifies

[Centurion]

That's an unfair bias. Just 40 years ago our country forced black people to use completely different (and shitty) facilities and be subject to pervasive racism everyday. Fundamentalist Christians legitimated the persecution and murder of blacks, Catholics, gays, and probably more on extreme Protestantism (Ku Klux Klan).

The point is, don't stereotype or make sweeping judgments about a religion you probably know nothing about (and I'll admit, I'm no Islam expert). A lot of people can interpret things in numerous ways; Islam, Judeaism, and Christianity are all fundamentally the same (i.e. worship the same God and much of the Old Testament correlates with Quran). I don't want people judging my culture on the basis of anti-abortion murderers, K.K.K. members, or any other extremist organization in America, so we shouldn't either.

Well as it's been said time and again, it would be stupid to let a few bad apples be the characterization for a giant and broad group of people.
Extremists of ANY belief usually pervert those beliefs, as have Islamo-Fascists.

But the fact remains the vast and overwhelming majority of Muslims, as a result of often negative Faith, support alot of the beliefs and ideals propogated by these extremists.

40 Years ago people here were Fucking Idiots and there is no excusing their depravity.

But we're talking about today, as in now.
Islamic cultures have been behaving like this for Thousands of Years and as of this post, have not rectified their actions and fixed the problems they have.

The rash and immoral/illegal/imbecillic actions taken by Islamic radicals, and supported by droves of faithful Muslims is a result of Faith being used by a few Retards to manipulate vast quantities of people.

These actions are intolerable once they go from criticism and complaint, to Violence, Intimidation and Terrorism.

[Epinephrine]

Well as it's been said time and again, it would be stupid to let a few bad apples be the characterization for a giant and broad group of people.

But the fact remains the vast and overwhelming majority of Muslims, as a result of often negative Faith, support alot of the beliefs and ideals propogated by these extremists.

Wow you're a moron. Not only do you blatently contradict your first statement (or perhaps you're trying to prove it by showing how stupid you are), but you make up facts out of nowhere. I don't know a single Muslim who thinks that terrorism is a good idea, and I know a LOT of Muslims. It's idiots like you that things like this perpetuate.

And as for your '40 years ago' statement, do you even have any idea at all how the world works? You cannot compare the social evolution of the richest country in the world with the Muslim world which is generally poor. They are simply moving at a different rate (if one can even assume that they will ultimately turn into liberal democratic societies) than the 'West' is. Besides, 40 years ago is just 1 generation ago, it's not really that long ago.

Islamic cultures have been behaving like this for Thousands of Years and as of this post, have not rectified their actions and fixed the problems they have.

What the hell are you talking about? Thousands of years? Thousands of years of what? You know, technically, explosives to blow up buildings weren't even invented until the 19th century. What problems do they have exactly that they haven't fixed? For almost a millenium, the Middle East and the Islamic empires were the center for learning and science in the world and the only repository of lost Greek knowledge that later spurred on the Reinassance. Sure many Muslims live in the poor parts of the world today, but these things go in cycles and it doesn't help that the first world actively goes to put them down because the middle east has oil. Note that some Muslim countries like Malaysia are doing just fine, and so are millions of Muslims living in first world countries.

[Centurion]

Wow you're a moron. Not only do you blatently contradict your first statement (or perhaps you're trying to prove it by showing how stupid you are), but you make up facts out of nowhere. I don't know a single Muslim who thinks that terrorism is a good idea, and I know a LOT of Muslims. It's idiots like you that things like this perpetuate.

And as for your '40 years ago' statement, do you even have any idea at all how the world works? You cannot compare the social evolution of the richest country in the world with the Muslim world which is generally poor. They are simply moving at a different rate (if one can even assume that they will ultimately turn into liberal democratic societies) than the 'West' is. Besides, 40 years ago is just 1 generation ago, it's not really that long ago.



What the hell are you talking about? Thousands of years? Thousands of years of what? You know, technically, explosives to blow up buildings weren't even invented until the 19th century. What problems do they have exactly that they haven't fixed? For almost a millenium, the Middle East and the Islamic empires were the center for learning and science in the world and the only repository of lost Greek knowledge that later spurred on the Reinassance. Sure many Muslims live in the poor parts of the world today, but these things go in cycles and it doesn't help that the first world actively goes to put them down because the middle east has oil. Note that some Muslim countries like Malaysia are doing just fine, and so are millions of Muslims living in first world countries.

Wow you sure are quick to run your Fucking mouth.
No matter.

How is it NOT clear to you that so many of them support this shit? This ideology of Martyr's and Infidels and Islamic grandeousness/perfection.

You try and warp my argument by making it seem as if I think every single Muslim is a Terrorist or Terrorist sympathizer.
That is an idiotic strategy since I stated that's not the case.

But it doesn't change the fact that the overwhelming majority of them have no problem with Hamas blowing up a cafe.

I wasn't around 40 years ago, it was 1 generation ago, this country has been around what, <240 years? The new world, relatively speaking was only recently discovered and Colonized.

Your own argument concedes that Islam has been around for so long and has achieved great things.

So did the Nazis when they pioneered Rocketry.
That doesn't excuse the fact they had a backwards and fucked ideology.

Go back 1,000 years, Islam wasn't all Cake and Sprinkles.
There have always been Muslims with this 'Slaughter the Infidels' mentality.

Bottom line, we have realized and fixed many of our mistakes in an extremely short time period when compared to the Millenia+ that Islam has had to change it's idealism.

Are you telling Me the Assyrians(sp?) were not rich in their time as Western Nations are today?

Also, you don't need C4 to behead an Infidel.

You say Western Countries put them down because they have oil?
Wow and -I- contradict MYSELF?
Yeah the best way to get something you want from someone who has it is by putting them down.

Canada has Timber, do we put our thumb on them to hold them down so we can get cheap paper and mulch?
Fuck their oil, that's no excuse for the conditions of their own making.

[Troll King]

So your defence is that you don't think all Muslims were like that, only a vast and overwhelming majority? That's just as bad an assumption! If you apply a stereotype to a vast majority of a group instead of to the whole group, it's still a stereotype. In your last post, you state it as fact. I'd like to see how you could claim that as a factual statement.

You don't think it's right to let a few bad apples spoil the bunch, but apparently it's okay if a few bad apples spoil just a "vast and overwhelming majority".


And many would consider the U.S.'s stance on the soft lumber dispute to be an example of putting their thumbs down on Canada.

[Centurion]

So your defence is that you don't think all Muslims were like that, only a vast and overwhelming majority? That's just as bad an assumption! If you apply a stereotype to a vast majority of a group instead of to the whole group, it's still a stereotype. In your last post, you state it as fact. I'd like to see how you could claim that as a factual statement.

You don't think it's right to let a few bad apples spoil the bunch, but apparently it's okay if a few bad apples spoil just a "vast and overwhelming majority".


And many would consider the U.S.'s stance on the soft lumber dispute to be an example of putting their thumbs down on Canada.

They might not have 1 Billion people blowing themselves up but the FACT REMAINS that 'Martyrdom' is one of the Holiest things there is, in their eyes.

How many rallies do you see in the Muslim world denouncing Terror as opposed to how many you see burning shit, firing Kalashnikov's into the air and holding posters of bin Laden or Khomeini or some other hardline Islamist or 'Martyr'?

Lol, and perhaps My Lumber analogy was a bad one

[Troll King]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3586565.stm

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,4010709.story

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/natio...se-050721.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1591024.stm

If you haven't seen many Muslim rallies against terror, maybe it's because people holding guns makes for bigger news than people holding signs.

[Centurion]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3586565.stm

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,4010709.story

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/natio...se-050721.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1591024.stm

If you haven't seen many Muslim rallies against terror, maybe it's because people holding guns makes for bigger news than people holding signs.

Did I say they did not exist? No?

I simply implied they are far more rare and much smaller in size and participation and scope than say, a giant protest that's likely to follow Iran being deferred to the Security Council.

I have yet to see very many huge, Muslim orchestrated Anti-Terror marches in non-Westernized Countries.
I'm sure it would be a big hit in Yemen or Iran or some such place.

[Troll King]

On the flip side of your argument, not seeing large Muslim rallies against terror does not necessarily mean that a vast majority of Muslims are for it. That seems to be the body of your support for the "fact" you provided earlier, but the logic to that reasoning is flawed. Someone could use that exact same logic to say that if a vast and overwhelming majority of Muslims ARE in favour of terror, then we would see a lot more acts of terrorism than we do. It's the same argument, only applied in the other direction, and they share the same logical flaw.

If it's any consolation to you, I don't think your posts in this thread make you a complete idiot. Only make a vast and overwhelming majority of you an idiot.

[Richard Creager]

big ups to liquid for the pictures, i was wondering what this guy who's name everyone kept dropping looked like

they're all pissed about it huh? i hope they go over the line with whatever they do about it if anything, opening up the 2006 season that hopefully comes to emcompass the rest of the areas in it's run. we'll be having fun then, that's for sure.

[Centurion]

On the flip side of your argument, not seeing large Muslim rallies against terror does not necessarily mean that a vast majority of Muslims are for it. That seems to be the body of your support for the "fact" you provided earlier, but the logic to that reasoning is flawed. Someone could use that exact same logic to say that if a vast and overwhelming majority of Muslims ARE in favour of terror, then we would see a lot more acts of terrorism than we do. It's the same argument, only applied in the other direction, and they share the same logical flaw.

If it's any consolation to you, I don't think your posts in this thread make you a complete idiot. Only make a vast and overwhelming majority of you an idiot.

All your links pointed to small scale demonstrations or 'Conferences' in Western or Westernized countries.

On the same day as one, they bombed London, this was met with joy in places like Pakistan.

Palestine had a General Election and Hamas wins a Majority Government.

A radical cleric like Al-Sadr in Iraq can muster up a Militia numbering ten's of Thousands.

I don't need to address the large scale demonstrations in Iran, despite there being a large youth movement in that country pushing for reform, they still would love to see a Mushroom Cloud over Israel.

So you are denying that a very large body of Muslims, very likely over 50%, view their 'Martyr's' as heroes for bombing checkpoints and Cafe's and Jetliners of the 'Infidels'?
It may vary from nation to nation but the fact is Modern Islam teaches very little tolerance for 'Infidels' which is something a very wide margin of them consider us(Western Civilization) to be.

You shouldn't need to be enrolled at a Madrossa, listening to the actual radical Clerics spout their Shit in order for you to realize that this isn't some small scale problem where only a handful of Muslims think Western Society is an abomination.

[Sumpson]

[Centurion]

Sumpson, I am offended and I will burn your house down unless you apologize and convert!

[Sumpson]

he's one of the 2 million

[Colossos]

I'm not taking sides on this, because I am pretty anti-Islam and I didn't think I'd speak in their defence, but there are a couple of points that people seem to have missed:

Go back 1,000 years, Islam wasn't all Cake and Sprinkles.
There have always been Muslims with this 'Slaughter the Infidels' mentality.

Go back 1,000 years. Christians seized Jerusalem from the Muslims in the first crusade, and slaughtered every Muslim in the city, with the idea that to kill and infidel was the path to heaven. So I guess Christianity wasn't all cake and sprinkles then either.

How many rallies do you see in the Muslim world denouncing Terror as opposed to how many you see burning shit, firing Kalashnikov's into the air and holding posters of bin Laden or Khomeini or some other hardline Islamist or 'Martyr'?

The point there, although I know TK has already addressed it, is how many rallies do you see. Our media is just as biased as Al-Jazeera, and anti-West demonstrations make better news than anti-terrorist.


Also, people seem to be talking about poverty as an excuse for terrorism. I just thought I'd mention that the July 7th terrorists that bombed London were born and raised in Britain, taking advantage of all the benefits our society has to offer, and then blowing themselves up in a demonstration against our way of life - after living it for their lives. I believe the man who blew up King's Cross was actually a schoolteacher in Leeds. So it is not just the Muslims who live in Arab countries that can be radical.

Of course the situation is far, far more complicated than anything any of us have mentioned, but these are the facts as simply as they can be put.

[Epinephrine]

TK speaks to Centurion:

If it's any consolation to you, I don't think your posts in this thread make you a complete idiot. Only make a vast and overwhelming majority of you an idiot.

I think this is by far the best comment in the entire thread.