Homosexuality

[Aquatiq]

Our job is to reproduce

Really? We don't have a choice?

Of course we have a choice. You make it sound like when someone is born they owe some huge unpayable debt to humanity for which payment in the form of reproducing would be sufficient.

[freddie]

Really? We don't have a choice?

Well if you wouldn't reproduce you were like gay people, and had to benefit in other ways...I guess ^-^

[Aquatiq]

There ARE straight people who choose not to reproduce. Or don't for other reasons, but that doesn't make them gay.

[Galleleo]

So a woman who had cancer and there for had to have her uterus removed and stuff (I know what it's called by I don't know the spelling so I won't try) to save her life, has a huge debt to society?

Someone born incapable of having children for whatever reason, has a huge debt to society?

[Superted]

I'd like to consider myself open minded but when the bible says;

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

Then I'm presented with a conflicting opinion. The bible says homosexuality is a sin but if homosexuality is a genetic thing then I think that's quite unfair, it would be like a hungry person being forbidden from eating. However, the bible also says

No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

So if it is genetic then we have the way in Christ to resist it... but it still seems unfair. I guess the most important aspect of this conflicting view is, is there any real evidence for homosexuality being genetic? If it's not genetic then it must be nurture and if it's our upbringing then... I still feel it's unfair but a bit less than if it's genetic.

As you can see my thoughts are all over the place with this subject, I have christian friends who say being homosexual is ok, but not doing the homosexual acts... which links to my hunger comparison earlier.

However, homosexual or not I don't really care, they're just the same as the rest of us in the end. (I really turned into l1ght for this post, sorry about that)

[Galleleo]

Thing is, the bible was written in the time of the ignorant. The word genetic wasn't even invented yet.

Upbringing is quite impossible, I would say everyone within a family gets the same kind of upbringing, yet you rarely see more then one gay person in a family (father/mother and the kids, not a whole family line).

[Superted]

My Brother and I had a similiar upbringing except for 1 thing; he had a younger brother where as I had an older brother. Neither one of us is gay but I just want to point out there can be differences.

[Spider]

The fact is that people are easily made uncomfortable by things that are different or that they don't understand. In language we all understand: The average Joe is a n00b.

What exactly "anti-gay" people wish to accomplish, or what type of future they envision, it's really hard to say. I would be curious to know the answer to questions like: What do you want to happen to them? Should there be "treatment" facilities, should they be arrested, denied jobs? For what purpose, and to what end, do people harbor anti-gay sentiment? Do they think that if they are big enough jerks they will just go away or something?

Aside: What kind of an archaic "civilization" has discussions about it's own members referring to groups as "them", I'm ashamed of myself.

I believe that we have no choice other than to embrace the diversity inherent in humanity. In what other way can we create a better world for everyone, gay or straight, white or black, and so on?

I am very proud to believe in all of humanity. I don't think every view point is acceptable, correct, or moral. Not at all. We must work together to break down the barriers of misunderstanding and hatred. Hatred in any form is antithetical to all standards we ought to aspire to. It is incompatible with virtue, with honor, with love. Hatred is the fuel of the foolish and weak, people who seek to destabilized society. There is nothing valid in that.

There is only one way to fight the disease of intolerance and it's to spread the love. Spread the love baby. There are many barriers out there, all of which go both ways. We gotta put the Unity in the Community baby.

[Galleleo]

It can't be upbringing super, some kids are raised as real "boys" their father takes to to play baseball, wants to make a real "boy" out of them. They turn out gay. Some people can do what they want, ballet, sports, music, they turn out gay. Some guys do ballet, they turn out straight.

I don't think you could possibly ever throw this on upbringing.

[Displaced]

humans as a species are on this earth for one reason, and one reason alone.

to survive.

that means that we are "made" to keep on making more humans, it really "is" that simple.

sure people have choices, or have accidents, become incapable of doing what they are "put" here to do.

but there isnt some magical mystery to life, we, and all the other animals on this planet, are made to keep themselves alive, pure and simple.

gay's may not fit "that" mold, but it doesn't change that simple fact.

as for homosexuality being genetic, or some genetically predetermined disposition, i dont know, but i find that hard to believe.

i think, that people choose what they like, i dont think that only genetics tell us what to look for in a "mate", i believe it is largely influenced by surroundings and other environmental causes, i.e. being gay is a choice.

that said, i dont have any "proof" of the matter, nor do i go around requesting gay people to change, to each his own, and i respect their freedom of choice.

[Twerp]

I might think it's a disgusting lifestyle, but I'm not the one living it. So they're free to do whatever.

[Subjugation]

In your opinion, do you think homosexuality is seen as a disgusting lifestyle to many simply because they dislike the act/idea itself, or because religion says it's a bad thing?

I don't really feel like debating the topic from the perspective of whether it's right or wrong, but I'd like to address LB's original question:

The short answer is---people are disgusted by gays because society tells them they should be disgusted by gays.

I think the biggest reason is viewed negatively is because it's been vilified by so many religious leaders. Jews, Muslims and Catholics fucking hate each other, until it comes to homosexuality. I'm sure you have caught the recent anti-gay conference where representatives of these three religions who have tried to kill each other for thousands of years got together and all agreed that they fucking hate homos.

Also, like Phreddy mentioned, assfucking and carpet munching doesn't a baby make. And since governments have a long history of promoting reproduction to increase their economies, legislation has tended to favor it. That is changing, due to concerns about limited energy resources and overpopulation, but one of my favorite examples is what the Spanish Crown did in their Caribbean colonies. It was illegal for a Spaniard to marry a native, until the government figured out they could make way more money with a larger population. Boom---shortly thereafter, they get the blessing from the Vatican and the Crown. They could then marry Indians----just stay away from the black slaves. :/

And like someone else mentioned, people tend to favor those that are like them. And, the converse is also true. People tend to dislike/fear that which they don't understand.

PS: LB is a faggot.:wub:

[Squeezer]

I hate when people try to simplify humanity by saying that all we're meant to do is reproduce. Then why did we grow extra sensory organs, and the capability of reason? Even if you believe that our brains naturally evovled so that we can interpret and feel complex emotions, then you'd have to argue that not using them is a waste of nature. Some people get feelings of attraction to the opposite sex. Why? Not one of us can answer that, but to simplify their existence to only being useful to reproduce is a grave sin against humanity. That's how genocides begin.

I personally know a lot of homosexual people (as well as faced some tradgedies, which I don't want to go into) and can honsetly say that apart from liking the same sex, they're no different than any of us.

I think it's silly to hold a predjudice against someone because of what they feel is right. To use the same analogy, it's like hating someone for being black....they can't help it.

And even if it isn't all genetics, battling against their right to be equal is completely stupid. For all those Christians out there that don't feel gays should be entitled to the same rights, put the shoe on the other foot. They believe that the lifestyle they're living is correct....for them. They, unlike many Christians don't want to convert the world, or even tell the world what they can and can't believe. All many want is equal rights which, as evidenced by this conversation, clearly is not the case. Christians chose their beliefs (homosexuality is wrong) and gays chose theirs.

The reason I tend to side with the homosexual population, aside from personal experience is that they're only struggling to be equal, while others are struggling to keep them down.

edit: Furthermore, if any straight person on this country is free to practice and participate in what they believe in, then why shouldn't homosexuals be allowed to do the same? If their belief can't be proven wrong (no one can honestly say that two men, or two women aren't meant to fall in love) then why can't they practice it?

Someone opposing this point of view please answer that for me.

[Pummel]

This will UNGAYIFY you.

[Galleleo]

So answer me this. Was there some point in your life where you thought to yourself: And from now on I will only fall in love with girls? I bet not, that first crush just happened, you didn't chose when it would it happen, or with who that would be. At a certain point you begin to develop feelings, you don't chose that.