University of Florida Police Brutality

[genocidal]

Like I said, I won't even bother with Euro comments. Thanks for proving my point, Zerz.

Were there rules about being allowed to speak at this event?

It was a question/answer period. He was asking Senator Kerry a question that he had waited in line to ask (which Kerry actually continued to respond to even after the scuffle). Personally, I wanted to know the answer to his questions.

If so, was he following them?

Debatable. The one rule he broke was using profanity - he said "blowjob." BUT, the reason you don't hear it on the video is because he said he at the beginning of his question. He was allowed to continue speaking until he looked unruly (I guess?) to either Accent (the people holding the event) or the actual officers. Details on this are sketchy but what Accent is saying is that they cut his mic because he said "blowjob," despite waiting at least 3 or 4 minutes for him to finish his question before responding to that (which makes it suspect).

I'm a senior at the University of Florida and I've been to about 25-30 of these events and they usually end with a question/answer period. I've seen peoples' microphones cut off many times, and I've seen many impassioned questioners (far more than this guy) but I have never seen the police so much as talk to a student - much less lay a hand on him. This was unprecedented for the university and for Senator Kerrry (he was quoted as saying this afterward). The Senator, in fact, pleaded with the officers to leave him alone because he was answering his question.

When asked to stop speaking, was it followed?

He wasn't asked to stop speaking, his microphone was cut off. Generally (and like I said I have a lot of experience seeing this happen) people just walk away when that happens. In this case he kept talking (and yes I've seen that before) and demanding to know why his mic was cut. The police did NOT ask him to stop talking they simply grabbed him, which in any normal human being has a very visceral reaction (space people probably don't count because most of you are huge pussies as evidenced by some of your responses like, "lol do wut copz say OR ELZ").

So in short, he was kind of asked to stop speaking (mic cut) and no, it wasn't followed (he got pissed off, legitimately) - but it's clearly much more complicated than that. It's not like he was shouting endlessly or something.

While being physically removed, was it reasonably to expect that additional force might be used?

Not at all. Like I said before, I've seen this happen many times and never have I seen police get involved - especially physically. But, there are always officers standing by.

Free speech needs to have context and coomon sense. For example, exercising free speech from the back of a court room can get you thrown in jail. Or go into a biker bar and start yelling how guys who ride bikes are pussies. A tase would be the least of your worries.

Well there is nothing wrong with going to a biker bar and saying that; it just doesn't seem very wise. Courtrooms are different because there is a degree of respect that must be adhered to by law (you can be prosecuted for contempt of court). You can't be prosecuted for contempt of Kerry.

And since many already think the these type authorities already are assholes, why would someone think that they wouldn't get the short end of the stick in this situation?

Irrelevant. Everyone who says, "You should expect police to beat or harm you" is missing the point. Why should you expect it? It's not legal.

[404 Not Found]

The officers also deserve a good helping of criticism in this case, even though they were justified. First and foremost, you are ALWAYS suppose to start with a verbal command. They didn’t do that here, they simply grabbed the kid before even telling him what they were doing.

There were two officers who, for a few seconds got physical control over the student. But then this little punk kid was able to get free.

He gets free and a third officer, instead of helping to cuff the kid, pulls out his taser and aims it at the kid. But this was a bad move. As you can see in the video, other officers actually get into the line of fire of the taser. That’s a no-no, you don’t aim a weapon like that when other officers are in the line of fire.

Then a forth officer joins in, and the 4 officers try to escort him out without having any physical control over the subject whatsoever. This is crazy. I mean what the hell were they thinking? Then the kid actually gets free from 4 police officers!

He gets free and then they finally get him on the ground. He has 3-4 officers on his back, another holding his legs and another trying to talk to him, telling him to stop resisting and giving verbal commands. Even though there is about 5 cops on this kid, they can’t get handcuffs on him! The punk kid even gets his arms free as they try to cuff him!

At this point, I’m thinking, what the hell is going on? How is it that 5 cops can’t subdue one scrawny little college brat without a taser shot?

This should not have ended in the kid being shot with a damn taser. This is a case of cops that either have bad training or are just lazy-asses. I suspect the fact that they were university police and not street cops had something to do with it.

I know this is after-the-fact analysis, but come on. 5 cops can’t take down one kid without shooting him with a taser first? That’s just lame.

I think the most shocking thing about the video is how big of a brat this student is. Any idiot with any sense in their brain knows that when a police officer takes you into custody, game over.

This kid would have had a great first amendment civil suit against the University–the cops had no justification to arrest him. I say, “take the cuffs and sue later.” The government HATES a first amendment fight in front of a jury, because unlike almost any other kind of case, they usually lose.

But screaming like a brat and resisting arrest doesn’t work. It usually ends with a zap!

[Ephemeral]

Were there rules about being allowed to speak at this event?
If so, was he following them?
When asked to stop speaking, was it followed?
While being physically removed, was it reasonably to expect that additional force might be used?

Free speech needs to have context and coomon sense. For example, exercising free speech from the back of a court room can get you thrown in jail. Or go into a biker bar and start yelling how guys who ride bikes are pussies. A tase would be the least of your worries.

And since many already think the these type authorities already are assholes, why would someone think that they wouldn't get the short end of the stick in this situation?

[Zerzera]

I'm going to ignore the Euro posts.

You sound like a fucking sheep of a European with your protocol bullshit. The guy acted like a moron and in my book they should have undressed him -to humiliate him- , shave him, put a big mark on his body and deport him to some camp. That will teach him for stepping out of line like that and asking questions is never a good thing in my opinion.

[Bioture]

my two cents

I don't really care whether or not the guy gets arrested or roughed up or whatever. Campus cops can be the biggest pricks ever, so I'm not surprised. What I do think is that something needs to be done for the liberal tazing that occurred. He definitely needs to sue someone.

[genocidal]

I'm going to ignore the Euro posts A) because they're illogical B) because Euros are used to being sheep to their governments and C) because they're Euro.

Anyways, bottom line is a cop tells you to do something, you have to do it.

Uh no you don't. Is this what people are taught in school? Unless you're being detained you don't have to even speak to an officer, much less let him touch you. It's still assault even with a badge if it's unjustified. Being a cop doesn't give you a free pass to fuck with people, despite what some cops think.

This dumbass didn't, and he learned that hard way that it doesn't pay to be a douchebag. But, straight up, this isn't brutality.

How is it not brutality? He was pinned down and CLEARLY not a threat to any of the officers or anyone else. Had he had a gun I think they would have figured it out in the course of manhandling him.

Here is a rule from University of Florida Police Department protocol: use of taser is justified at a threat level of 4 and above where threat level 1 is intimidating body language and level 6 is attempts to kill or badly hurt an officer. I don't think being pinned on the ground by 4 officers constitutes a threat level of 4. But just in case, let's dig deeper!

Florida law states, "A person is justified in using force, expect deadly force, against another when and to the extend that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force" (Title XLVI, 776.012).

Okay, so which of the four officers on top of him felt the need to defend themselves? Where was his imminent use of unlawful force? His flailing hands. I would flail too if a bunch of cops had their dirty hands all over me. Hell, look at the end of the video. ONE cop carried him out. Not four, one. So why did he need to be tasered when four were on top of him?

Rodney King was fucking brutality, but this shit doesn't even come close to it. And if the officers are suspended (I'm sure with pay) pending an investigation, I can almost guaran-damn-tee that the officers will be cleared with justifiable use of non-lethal force.

It doesn't have to be the level of Rodney King to be brutality. Many people have died from taser usage - it's not something to play around with and go trigger-happy on. The officers I'm sure will be released from the University at least because this is a huge black eye.

I'm sorry to rain on everyone's parade here, again, but you guys are right. If we lived in this ideal society this shouldn't happen. But, guess what? Life sucks, wear a fucking helmet. You don't do stupid shit like that with police and not expect to get your ass beat. Simple as that.

It's shit like this that scares me. I've been shot with a taser gun, I fucking know how serious it is. Not only can it kill you but it hurts like fuck and I, for one, don't want officers using their obviously poor discretion at when to use it. They clearly broke protocol (see above) and should be punished.

It fucking appalls me how nonchalant phatass, Dameon, and stark are about this. I figured the free speech and arrest (he was never put under arrest before being tased) would be the only controversial things but not the fucking excessive force.

[Vykromond]

don't tase me bro

[SEAL]

Appearantly there is a regulation, and he violated that. I'm pretty sure they were all told what to ask and what not. He's breaking those rules and continues this violation while being escorted.



Using this video as reference: http://youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE

My observation is that I see a man acting inpredictable in front of a VIP. That's how VIP get hurt.

See second 23 to 30. I would say they're being gently. He cuts himself lose and they allow him. Let's call that strike 2. (Try doing that to a bouncer in a club. 2 minutes later you're running to the hospital with your teeth in your hands).

Then at second 52, he becomes uncontrolable. He cuts himself lose from the police and makes a move back to the VIP.

Once he's down, he continues acting wild. uhmmm????? That's like picking up the soap in a jail shower. You're asking for it.

Remember that they have to judge in mather of seconds, unlike us who sit behind a computer and taking all the time for it.

[MirrorriM]

I'm on wireless so I cant watch those videos but I did see it on BBC World. The newswoman said the guy wouldnt stop asking questions or give the mic to someone else. They show him at the mic, then police ask him to step down and he refuses so they try to force-walk him away and then he starts to go crazy. The scene cuts to him on the ground pleading for them to not tase him, then they do.

I can see why people think it is wrong for police to cause bodily harm to people but I really dont care. The guy wanted to be stupid and cause a scene. All he had to do was walk away with them. Then he could rant about it in a blog or on the news or whatever and get his free speech. He wanted to act like an idiot and try to cause a stir anyway with that "skull and bones" thing.

edit: stark is on the money.

[MetalHeadz]

So MHZ, if I went on a holy mission to shout shit about everyone you knew, your family, even your pet, that would be ok?

I'm just using my civil rights, if you had done anything to harm me, I could press charges and get your ass in jail.

Perfectly fine, and the way it should work in a free society?

It's better than the extreme at the opposite end of the spectrum.

I was talking more about political speech but I guess on a personal level it's more about the ethical discretion of the individual. What are you suggesting, that the Government bans 'shouting shit' at people? In response to your question 'would that be ok?', well it would depend on what I had done to merit it. Freedom of speech should not be (ab)used for the sake of usage.

[Singularity]

what's that movie with the kid from dawson's?

The Skulls

[Noah]

So MHZ, if I went on a holy mission to shout shit about everyone you knew, your family, even your pet, that would be ok?

I'm just using my civil rights, if you had done anything to harm me, I could press charges and get your ass in jail.

Perfectly fine, and the way it should work in a free society?

[MetalHeadz]

Way to keep it civil, but I don't care WHAT country you live in, "freedom of speech" is at least a somewhat measured "right." Like it or not, you relinquish true and total "freedom of speech" by living in a structured society of any sort. Otherwise, meetings would denigrate into shouting matches, and the crazy guy standing in the back of city hall meetings screaming "THE HALOCAUST WAS A LIE! THE HALOCAUST WAS A LIE!" over and over would disrupt anything getting done. It's not about being uncomfortable, it's about being appropriate.

Just to be clear, I don't think the guy should have been tased. I thought I made that point clear, but evidently there's some sort of vocab filter as things head trans-Atlantic.

I apologise for my vulgarity previously, I get hot headed easily (you've probably noticed). I feel quite passionately about this.

I have to disagree with you fundamentally, freedom of speech should never be undermined just because we live in a 'structured' and 'civilised' society. It's a right we've gained (as western cultures) through political progress, democracy and constitutions. It's a right so many people lack and a right so many people fight for. Do not take it for granted, it's a luxury.

You also infer that just because people have the ability to say what they want, they necessarily will. People don't always exercise their civil rights to the maximum all the time, that's absurd. It's like saying that freedom of religion would necessarily mean everyone would be religious. You entertain the somewhat simplistic idea that unless something is legally implemented the opposite will definitely occur: it won't.

[PH]

OH MAN I KNEW IT THOSE SYSTEM OF A DOWN GUYS WERE RIGHT LOOK AT THIS SHIT ALL POLICE ARE BRUTAL SWINE FUCK THE SYSTEM oh wait their so-called music is terrible and has no meaning so just forget i said anything ok thanks

[Dameon Angell]

Thanks Stark for restoring my faith in this community.