American Elections '08

[Cops]

shame on you Broly, Obama is no pokemon trainer, he's totally a digimon kind of guy.

[Broly]

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[Cops]

hilldog is not legit, obama is 2legit 2 quit.

[H.M.S. Stargazer]

So... Democrats who are legitimate: Obama and Clinton.
Republicans are showing McCain and Huckabee.

So it seems.

I hope McCain wins.
Either vote will be good democratic wise. African American or Woman... USA is growing up! *sniffle*

[Galleleo]

From what I know about it, I really like the British Health Care system. NHS covers EVERYONE in Britain, no insurance needed at all. Though you can get insured for private health care.

Us Dutch do have a universal Healthcare system, but it has been privatised a bit lately and it does run through insurance companies. ANYONE can get help at a hospital without being asked about insurance and if its covers anything and stuff. So no-one gets rejected, EVERYONE is insured too. But the biggest problem is additional stuff, and insurance companies can indicate, hey you should do that one because the other one is experimental (more expensive). So yeah, I definitely like the British system more. But as I mentioned in a different thread, I do think that lately the Dutch government and stuff is moving in the wrong direction with all the privatising.

[GuruMeditation]

So Clinton, Obama and Edwards are the 3 democrats so far?

They're the 3 democrats who are most likely to win their parties nomination to become the Democrat candidate for the presidency. There are other candidates, it's just they're outsiders right now.

[Cops]

It's nice to hear an American speak with neutrality on the privatisation vs. centralisation debate. A lecturer of mine said today that the American education system has a skewed approach to the free market and they overplay it's benefits too much: is this accurate?

I'd say your doesn't know the difference between an American and a Canadian.

Dude this is the shit I'm talking about, I said 'Kolar and me are covered under two health plans'. Stop talking and start reading.

[MetalHeadz]

I've said it 50 times now that it shouldn't be a political issue. Privatization is only "good" if it is more efficient and cost effective, it shouldn't factor into a political or economic philosophy that it always works FOR EVERYTHING. And on the opposite side a state or semi-state operated service doesn't work for everything.

It's nice to hear an American speak with neutrality on the privatisation vs. centralisation debate. A lecturer of mine said today that the American education system has a skewed approach to the free market and they overplay it's benefits too much: is this accurate?

[MetalHeadz]

In Canada we still need to pay for dental, glasses, ambulances, contacts, medicine and a few other things. Not everything is provided but the majority is, me and Kolar are covered under two health plans. We're covered under Sun Life insurance that covers medicine, glasses every two years, $300 per year of massages and $300 per year for physiotherapy. I pretty much don't pay for contacts because of this plan, I also avoided a $2000 bill from my dentist when I had 4 impacted teeth removed last year, Kolar avoided a $1000 bill.

The last plan we're covered under is from ihaveaplan.ca which was covered in my tuition that is run by my student union. This plan doesn't cover much, it's not an amazing plan but it's good for people who's parents don't cover them while in school. I believe I have $75 per year of contacts (which kind of sucks considering I spend about $60 every three months in contacts), 70 - 80% from 'network' dentists. There's a few other services but a lot of it is restricted and takes a lot of time to actually get 'any' money back. This plan is similar to most American plans that I've read up on, it's not terrible but my mother's plan covers just about every little cost so this plan is more or less a waste of money, I tried to opt out of it this year but I was too late. I'm just gonna get a box or two of contacts then probably forget that I ever had it.

edit: Oh I forgot OHIP covers some costs that aren't covered by our health care, I believe if you're under 16-18 you do not pay for eye exams as well as other things including chiopractic and physical therapy. OHIP is geared towards helping minors.

The Ontario Health Insurance Plan (OHIP) is the government-run health plan for the Canadian province of Ontario.

I'm covered by sunlife, ihaveaplan.ca, my work is unionized that pays me if anything happens, OHIP, and of course our universal health care. I could also qualify for free health insurance from my work in 2-3 years or as soon as I am made full-time.

I get mine for free and I never worry about it. My parents probably pay like 2% more tax than yours :/

[Cylor]

I think we need more British input on this issue, the Canadians seem to be dominating.

[Cops]

It is often said that the beauracracy of universal health care is much larger than private health care, I find that difficult to believe. Private health care requires insurance companies, does universal health care?

In Canada we still need to pay for dental, glasses, ambulances, contacts, medicine and a few other things. Not everything is provided but the majority is, me and Kolar are covered under two health plans. We're covered under Sun Life insurance that covers medicine, glasses every two years, $300 per year of massages and $300 per year for physiotherapy. I pretty much don't pay for contacts because of this plan, I also avoided a $2000 bill from my dentist when I had 4 impacted teeth removed last year, Kolar avoided a $1000 bill.

The last plan we're covered under is from ihaveaplan.ca which was covered in my tuition that is run by my student union. This plan doesn't cover much, it's not an amazing plan but it's good for people who's parents don't cover them while in school. I believe I have $75 per year of contacts (which kind of sucks considering I spend about $60 every three months in contacts), 70 - 80% from 'network' dentists. There's a few other services but a lot of it is restricted and takes a lot of time to actually get 'any' money back. This plan is similar to most American plans that I've read up on, it's not terrible but my mother's plan covers just about every little cost so this plan is more or less a waste of money, I tried to opt out of it this year but I was too late. I'm just gonna get a box or two of contacts then probably forget that I ever had it.

edit: Oh I forgot OHIP covers some costs that aren't covered by our health care, I believe if you're under 16-18 you do not pay for eye exams as well as other things including chiopractic and physical therapy. OHIP is geared towards helping minors.

The Ontario Health Insurance Plan (OHIP) is the government-run health plan for the Canadian province of Ontario.

I'm covered by sunlife, ihaveaplan.ca, my work is unionized that pays me if anything happens, OHIP, and of course our universal health care. I could also qualify for free health insurance from my work in 2-3 years or as soon as I am made full-time.

[Kolar]

I've said it 50 times now that it shouldn't be a political issue. Privatization is only "good" if it is more efficient and cost effective, it shouldn't factor into a political or economic philosophy that it always works FOR EVERYTHING. And on the opposite side a state or semi-state operated service doesn't work for everything.

[Vatican Assassin]

It is often said that the beauracracy of universal health care is much larger than private health care, I find that difficult to believe. Private health care requires insurance companies, does universal health care?

Metal, you're right about how privatization of health care is in essence unethical. But I think cops practical skepticism of the IMF is not rooted in his "reluctance to appreciate the need for international equity through financial means," I think it comes from all the things we were talking about, like a $500 million loan for a dam which gets lost and the country never gets out of the stranglehold of debt and has to do whatever the international 1st world community dictates. In an economics class you can just dump a big low interest loan on an South American country and they use it to progress, but in the real world there is corruption, death squads, economic hit men, cout's, racism, and a lot of other factors which act to prevent the kid of growth you visualize. There is a reason why many of the countries the IMF has tried to help have not advanced, and its not just bad luck, or bad strategy, some of the times its for a planned reason.

[MetalHeadz]

but anyways, i think it should serve as a lesson. because even though it's not universal health care, it failed for the exact same reasons that universal health care will fail.

Point taken about the IMF, but lay off national health care. I am proud of the NHS provided in the UK, it's one of our finest Government run institutions. It provides a high quality health service to everybody, yep not just those who can afford it, "go figure". It may not be the most efficient in terms of costs as there is not the same competition as seen in privatised medical economies but it is a pioneering and generally well run organisation. Critics who state it's weaknesses focus on the very complex beaurocratic power systems employed which admittedly you may not find in the private sector. However this does not undermine the fact that it is a truly phenomenal achievement indictative of a ethically evolved nation (something I'm not sure I could say about the USA.) Similarly with the IMF, in principle a truly amazing institution and I think your practical critique of the IMF is sourced in your reluctance to appreciate the need for international equity through financial means. You're very quick to pick the IMF up on it's failures but consider the amount of invaluable help it has offered to those countries requiring low interest loans and grants.

[Cops]

just remember - every politician who passed every law, policy or regulation truly believed that they were helping people, and they did it for the best of intentions and interests. but ultimately, it's not a question of policy A over policy B, it's a question of whether there should be policy at all.

there's no sin in being an idealist. I completely agree with your opinions on the IMF, I doubt the creators of the IMF really knew how bad it would make things. I'm with squeezer though, I can't find it in myself to believe that every politician passes laws that they truly believed in.

I honestly can't find it in myself to believe that.

Oh, and I'm down with Barack since the whole Kucinich/ Ron Paul ticket is a pipe dream.

He's the most intelligent candidate that actually has a chance at winning this. I believe in his reform policies surrounding lobbyists. I believe in his policies and openness to talking to other countries. He might not be your first choice but he definitely is mine.