War?

[Heroin Bob]

yay socialism

[Da1andonly]

I didn't know that you had lived here, 404! Where at?

[Displaced]

yes because its always the US' fault that everything goes wrong in the world, especially in Europe where the EU sure doesn't have any responsibility right?

No one else is at fault for these things, everyone is a puppet of the mighty US, right?

No, obviously Russia and Georgia are at fault as well, but the fact of the matter still remains.

It's an oil issue, through and through, do a little searching and you will find lotst of information on how Shaakhasvili has been deling with western oil companies (mainly US) about rerouting the caspian sea oil and gas pipelines to turkey and cutting off supply to Russia.

It also isn't by coincidence that the US supply arms to the Georgian army, or that many of the Georgian armys top advisors are Israeli military officials.
Nor is it coincidence that the US held "training" exercises in Tiblisi last month.
Even less of a coincidence is that Saakhashvili was put into power in 2003 with the aid of the CIA.

There are even reports that no Russian soldiers were harmed during the Georgian attack on S.Ossetian separatists, some going so far to say that it is a plot by Russia to have an excuse to go to "war" with Georgia.

Moreover, the whole missile defence system that the US wants to build in Georgia (or Poland or the Czech republic) is going to cause an uproar, and the US knows it. Plus its a great way to draw attention away from the whole Oil issue. (smells like another Iraq to me).

as for "links", im at work, so i dont have the time to dig through everything, but here is an excertp from Watson:

U.S. Attacks Russia Through Client State Georgia

Georgian forces, trained and equipped by the Pentagon and the U.S. government, killed 10 Russian peacekeepers early this morning in a provocation attack that has escalated into military conflict, but the subsequent corporate media coverage would have us believe that the U.S. and NATO-backed client state Georgia is a helpless victim, when in actual fact a far more nuanced geopolitical strategy is being played out.

Original reports early this morning detailed how Georgian forces had killed 10 Russian peacekeepers and wounded 30 others, which was the provocation for Russian forces to begin military operations, but the fact that Georgian forces were responsible for starting the conflagration has been completely buried in subsequent media coverage.

“Georgia and the Pentagon cooperate closely,” reports MSNBC, “Georgia has a 2,000-strong contingent supporting the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq, and Washington provides training and equipment to the Georgian military.”

The latest exercise, Immediate Response 2008, which took place last month, involved no less than one thousand U.S. troops working with Georgian troops in a war game scenario.

Moreover, the very “Rose Revolution” that brought the Harvard trained pro-US Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvilli to power in 2003 was wholly aided and abetted by the Central Intelligence Agency.

Russian fury at U.S. support for Georgia and Georgia’s aspirations of becoming a NATO member have flared regularly in recent months, with tensions also rising following U.S. attempts to place missile defense shield technology in Poland and the Czech Republic, which most observers agree has nothing to do with Iran and is in fact aimed at countering Russian military superiority in the region.

In addition, the pro-Israeli news source DebkaFile reports that Georgian infantry units were “aided by Israeli military advisors” in capturing the capital of breakaway South Ossetia, Tskhinvali earlier today.

DebkaFile elaborates on the true geopolitical significance behind today’s events.

DEBKAfile’s geopolitical experts note that on the surface level, the Russians are backing the separatists of S. Ossetia and neighboring Abkhazia as payback for the strengthening of American influence in tiny Georgia and its 4.5 million inhabitants. However, more immediately, the conflict has been sparked by the race for control over the pipelines carrying oil and gas out of the Caspian region.

The Russians may just bear with the pro-US Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili’s ambition to bring his country into NATO. But they draw a heavy line against his plans and those of Western oil companies, including Israeli firms, to route the oil routes from Azerbaijan and the gas lines from Turkmenistan, which transit Georgia, through Turkey instead of hooking them up to Russian pipelines.

Former Treasury Secretary under Ronald Reagan, Paul Craig Roberts, told The Alex Jones Show today that the entire scenario smacked of a maneuver on behalf of the Neo-Con faction controlling the White House, led by Dick Cheney. Roberts said the date was precisely picked due to the distraction of the Olympics and Bush being out of the country.

Meanwhile, the U.S. media networks are seemingly more interested in the complete non-story of John Edwards having an affair, while a conflict that could have devastating and thunderous geopolitical consequences fizzes on the verge of explosion.

and another excerpt.

Pravda: War between Russia and Georgia orchestrated from USA

Sunday, Aug 10, 2008

The US administration urged for an immediate cease-fire in the conflict between Russia and Georgia over the unrecognized republic of South Ossetia.

In the meantime, Russian officials believe that it was the USA that orchestrated the current conflict. The chairman of the State Duma Committee for Security, Vladimir Vasilyev, believes that the current conflict is South Ossetia is very reminiscent to the wars in Iraq and Kosovo.

“The things that were happening in Kosovo, the things that were happening in Iraq – we are now following the same path. The further the situation unfolds, the more the world will understand that Georgia would never be able to do all this without America. South Ossetian defense officials used to make statements about imminent aggression from Georgia, but the latter denied everything, whereas the US Department of State released no comments on the matter. In essence, they have prepared the force, which destroys everything in South Ossetia, attacks civilians and hospitals. They are responsible for this. The world community will learn about it,” the official said.

[Galleleo]

From what I understand, this started between the rebels (if you wanna call it that) and the Georgian army, some Russian soldiers which were stationed in South Ossetie got killed too and then the Russian army stepped in on the side of South Ossetie.

And why do you say this is happening in Europe? This shit is not happening in Europe. Russia might be classified as a European country, but this is not happening in Europe. I have no doubt that England, France, Germany probably others, are already busy trying to put as much diplomatic pressure on Russia as possible. But Poetin isn't really that sensitive to anything anyone says.

[Exalt]

Not to mention right as the world turns it's attention to the Olympics.

well during the olympics there is supposed to be an unspoken agreement where no one does any aggression acts toward each other during the games.... and has been followed since ancient times really

even hitler and the soviet union followed that agreement.... apparently russia and georgia decided to throw that away

[Squeezer]

Next thing you know Russia will want to control Finland again j/k

Although when I lived in Helsinki decades ago, it was always interesting to see how the Soviet Unions presence was made known in abundance in the Baltic as well as along the land border.

If Russia wants to pull some weight and take advantage, this would be the time, in noting the lame-duck of Bush at the moment and an election on the horizon.

Not to mention right as the world turns it's attention to the Olympics.

[404 Not Found]

Next thing you know Russia will want to control Finland again j/k

Although when I lived in Helsinki decades ago, it was always interesting to see how the Soviet Unions presence was made known in abundance in the Baltic as well as along the land border.

If Russia wants to pull some weight and take advantage, this would be the time, in noting the lame-duck of Bush at the moment and an election on the horizon.

[DoTheFandango]

I don't know, there are no right or wrong sides in this. While I blame Russia for pushing their "Peacekeepers" into Georgia, but who attacked who and what the fuck is going on.

[Exalt]

The US also wants to set up their "missile defence systems" in Georgia, so the US of A is pretty much pulling all the strings here.

yes because its always the US' fault that everything goes wrong in the world, especially in Europe where the EU sure doesn't have any responsibility right?

No one else is at fault for these things, everyone is a puppet of the mighty US, right?

[Displaced]

this is simple. Georgia will not give the ossetia region autonomy, and russia will not settle till it has what it wants.

the ossetia region "wants" to be independant from Georgia. (or is it just pressure from Russia?)

Georgia does not want this to happen due to the "wealth" of the ossetia region (oil and gas pipelines that run through it).

Georgia is also feeling pressure from the US and Israel not to allow the ossetia region to become independant, as the US and Israel are heavily involved in equipping and training the Georgian military, and want "control" over those pipelines. Saakashvili wants to route the pipelines from ossetia to turkey, not to russia.

The US also wants to set up their "missile defence systems" in Georgia, so the US of A is pretty much pulling all the strings here.

[Zingy]

I think that Russia made the right move in stopping Georgian troops from overtaking South Ossetia. If Georgia been allowed to forcibly take S. Ossetia, they would have later gone on to attack Abkhazia as well.

Also, if Georgia was allowed to take S. Ossetia without any outside interference, other countries, having seen Georgia's success, would too have decided to follow in Georgia's footsteps by using military force to forcibly regain control of self-declared independent provinces.

Russia had to use disproportionate force for it to be a sufficient warning beacon against future interference by Georgia (and other similar countries) so that they will not try to mess with regions/countries which are under Russian protection (in this case, both S. Ossetia and Abkhazia had Russian peacekeepers stationed there).

[Galleleo]

Last I heard is that Georgia has ceased all military activities. And pulled its troops out of South Ossetie, they want to open negotiations with the Russians over an immediate cease firing treaty and ending off all hostilities. Russian army has complete control over the capitol of South Ossetie, Tschinvali. Georgia has retreated to prevent a catastrophe among the civilians from happening.

As far as I understand, there has been a tense situation between Russia and Georgia for a while. The South Ossetie Region declared independence when the Soviet Union ended and they have close ties with North Ossetie which is in Russia. There have been fights been rebels and the Georgians army the last few weeks right around the time Russia and Georgia wanted to talk about peace in that region. Georgia blames Russia from siding with the South Ossetie Region and Russia wants to prevent Georgia from joining the NATO to prevent it from getting a bigger Army. Saakashvilli said a few days ago that this madness should stop and that a war is not in the interest of Russia nor Georgia.

On the 7th, Saakashvilli ordered the Georgian troops to put down their weapons and offered the South Ossetie a cease firing. He promised the Region a lot of autonomy if they stayed as part of Georgia. The cease firing treaty was broken soon after it was offered. It was reported that Russian military died when their barracks were fired upon.

On the 8th Russian send in about 150 tanks and Georgia took down 2 Russian Jets. Russia says the capitol, Tschinvali has been completely destroyed in the fights and on this day Saakashvilli said that all troops and reserves should be ready. Poetin then threatened Georgia to attack if they did not immediately cease all activities in South Ossetie. Georgia said they wouldnt cease all activities until the area would be under control. On this day Russia officially joined the side of South Ossetie to assist in this war.

Saakashvilli pulled his troops out of Iraq (roughly 2000) to help with the war back home. Russia then expended its attacks outside of the region in South Ossetie on, what they call, strategic targets. The ceasing of all activities and retreating of troops happened a few hours after Russia attacked a military airport near Tbilisi.

That is basically what I know about what happened these past few days. Basically the fighting between the rebels in that region and the Georgian army increased in the past week and on Friday Russia stepped in to back the South Ossetie side.

[Kolar]

the UN? LOL?

that means nothing will be done

the UN is a complete joke... pretty much the UN is "US takes care of it, while the rest of us send like 10 troops each, who are mainly there in name only"

but since US can't do anything since we won't start a war with Russia, no one else will either, EU would be the only option there, since russia is Eastern Europe at least, but since you cannot take care of your own continent well i guess countries like Georgia will have to suck it up and get attacked

I think you're confusing the United Nations with the coalition of the willing. Easy mistake to make.

The EU has its part to play but Russia is a world power. Its military operations and aggression towards others is a concern for the world as it is whenever the United States decides to level another piece of real estate.

[Exalt]

ok so i read up on some of the facts of the war going on... and heres what I came up with:

the Georgian side did not want to prevent war... they refused to sign an agreement that would not allow either side to use force, which was a russian proposal... and if broken would result in a worldwide trial... so part of this is their own faults

Russia claims they are reacting to Georgian aggressian in the south Ossetia region toward civilians that have claim russian citizenship. Basically, the Georgian government attacked these people because they think of themselves as Russians not as Georgians and for whatever reason did not like this... and if you look it up, history has shown that that region only joined Georgia as part of the province during the soviet union, before that it was still part of Russia.... moot point but either way I do think Georgia did pick the fight here

Since Friday Georgian forces, and included mercenaries, have destroyed the south Ossetia capital and took over several villages in south Ossetia.
Russian army has not crossed the Georgian border and most of the souths Ossetians are Russian citizens.

It has been confirmed that Georgian forces had been killing wounded on the spot. 2000 INNOCENT people dead on the South-Ossetian side versus the 60 or so on the Georgian side.


Now this is just what I've been reading up on that is from sources outside of the average CNN and FOX news channels, so it may or may not be completely accurate, but it gives an opinion outside of what we get in the United States.

Overall, I think Georgia did not take the proper steps to prevent this, and since I do believe they were the aggressors in the south ossetia region, russia is justified in marching in and pushing them back out.

It would be like Mexico trying to attack Arizona, and us saying "don't do it or we will come after you." Mexico does it anyway and so we send our troops and start fucking up Mexico... the world would say the same to us, but we would have every right to defend Arizona

[Mantra-Slider]