Hamas and Israel

[R1pp3r]

I wish I could believe that, but sadly America only intervenes when there is profit to make. In this war they profit to keep it going.

[Scoop]

I wish I could believe that, but sadly America only intervenes when there is profit to make. In this war they profit to keep it going.

We sure profited from our war on terror. Fiscal deficits = profits?

[Epinephrine]

Few problems, Americans don't want to be your super-cop anymore so if European nations disagree with Israel and want to make a stand against Israel then they will, but my bet is they will most likely stand behind the U.S and follow their lead. I feel bad for the people of Gaza but some of you people forget that they elected Hamas, and they haven't been innocent in this whole fiasco. By taking one side you really don't understand the other sides point of view, because this isn't just one country bullying another around. I said before that I tend to side with Israel but right now I don't side with either of them, they need to work this out without American intervention.

Except that >50% of people in Gaza are <18. So really they are pretty innocent.

Furthermore, that's as legitimate as saying that other countries are totally justified at killing all Americans, because Americans elected George Bush and he started the war in Iraq, so they are all guilty.

[Cops]

Except that >50% of people in Gaza are <18. So really they are pretty innocent.

Furthermore, that's as legitimate as saying that other countries are totally justified at killing all Americans, because Americans elected George Bush and he started the war in Iraq, so they are all guilty.

that's not what I said, nor do I think that. That line of thinking is something I'm opposed to, but realistically it exists everywhere. I was making the point that Israel isn't the only one to blame in this situation.

The problem is that people really aren't being that "objective" in this thread, they've either said Israel is to blame or Hamas is to blame (except for a few). Personally, I think they're both to blame. It's pretty fucking hilarious that Ripper, as well as many nations are flocking to America to fix this problem. America has made its mistakes (obviously), but wonder how they feel when countries have been out right negative towards their country and people, not just their administration and expect those same people to care enough to force their politicians to solve this problem.

Epinephrine: direct intervention won't work nor will America intervene directly with Israel, diplomacy and negotiation is how this issue will be solved. Obama's leash on Israel will be short, so as much as this is looking like a god awful situation it will get better, even if it's momentary. The bureaucracy of the UN is only going to bog this issue down and force the countries to sign another half-ass peace treaty. Maybe I'm pessimistic about this issue, but realistically it's not going to be solved anytime soon.

[kthx]

I think most Americans are just tired of helping countries who just complain about what we give them instead of being grateful we are willing to help them at all.

[gran guerrero]

I think the riddle is supposed to be re-worded first:

Which dimensions of the wall is Israel with?

I think we can answer it now.:turned:

[R1pp3r]

that's not what I said, nor do I think that. That line of thinking is something I'm opposed to, but realistically it exists everywhere. I was making the point that Israel isn't the only one to blame in this situation.

The problem is that people really aren't being that "objective" in this thread, they've either said Israel is to blame or Hamas is to blame (except for a few). Personally, I think they're both to blame. It's pretty fucking hilarious that Ripper, as well as many nations are flocking to America to fix this problem. America has made its mistakes (obviously), but wonder how they feel when countries have been out right negative towards their country and people, not just their administration and expect those same people to care enough to force their politicians to solve this problem.

Epinephrine: direct intervention won't work nor will America intervene directly with Israel, diplomacy and negotiation is how this issue will be solved. Obama's leash on Israel will be short, so as much as this is looking like a god awful situation it will get better, even if it's momentary. The bureaucracy of the UN is only going to bog this issue down and force the countries to sign another half-ass peace treaty. Maybe I'm pessimistic about this issue, but realistically it's not going to be solved anytime soon.

If you’re referring to me I also think that both Hamas and Israel are to blame. They are both terrorist although there is a difference and that is that Israel is proving to be the most powerful one by far. The last two weeks Hamas has killed around ten people compared to Israel who is now closing in to a thousand not to mention all the casualties and Israel still threatens to escalate the war. Is it really strange my sympathies go to the innocent people in Gaza?
Moreover, I would actually be happier if The US stayed out of this all together, but since when have they stayed out of this? How many UN-resolutions haven’t been blocked by US vetoes and how many bombs made in America haven’t Israel dropped over Gaza? The US doesn’t play the super cop they are supporting every bomb that kill and injure thousands of people in Gaza.
Oh and one more thing. I laughed even more when you claimed to be objective than when Farscape said he’s super objective. What a joke indeed.

[Exalt]

I think the riddle is supposed to be re-worded first:

Which dimensions of the wall is Israel with?

I think we can answer it now.:turned:

I think the point of all this is, who fired on who first? If we believe Hamas fired first, which is a very good possibility considering they are an islamic terrorist group who are taught to hate Isreal, then why would the more powerful nation not retaliate?

If some little 4 foot 90 pound guy punched you in the face a bunch of times, you are telling me you would not do something about it? I don't understand what everyone expects... its like they don't expect Isreal to do ANYTHING when clearly they WERE fired upon in some way, whether it did lots of damage or not.

And my whole bible and torah quote thing was to show what the Jews and Muslims both believe to shed light on this hatred between the two that won't die anytime soon. Each believes that the area is given to them by God.

Abraham is in both the Quran and the Torah and the Bible. So is his two sons Isaac and Ishmael. The Quran states that Ishmael was the one with the "inheritance" of the land given by God while the Torah and Bible state that Isaac was given the "inheritance". Same subject matter, same historical figures, different accounts given by each "forefather" of each people. Isaac being the forefather of the Jews and Ishmael being the forefather of the Arabs.

Both think the land is theirs. Both will not accept only "part" of the land and both would be appalled to give either one of the two people any land in the area. Both want complete control.

[Nycle]

Few problems, Americans don't want to be your super-cop anymore so if European nations disagree with Israel and want to make a stand against Israel then they will, but my bet is they will most likely stand behind the U.S and follow their lead. I feel bad for the people of Gaza but some of you people forget that they elected Hamas, and they haven't been innocent in this whole fiasco. By taking one side you really don't understand the other sides point of view, because this isn't just one country bullying another around. I said before that I tend to side with Israel but right now I don't side with either of them, they need to work this out without American intervention.

Please don't portray the US being victimized into playing the world's super-cop, that's just not true. When was the last time the US ever listened to anyone on the area of foreign policy other than themselves? The truth is that the US has been one of the chief belligerents in any major war in the Middle-East in the past few decades, and with great power comes great responsibility and scrutiny. The Jewish lobby is big business in the US, so that's all the more reason for them to take action on this stage when no one else is willing or able to. But to portray that as somehow playing an unwilling super-cop for the rest of the "lazy/coward/undeveloped or whatever world" will only add to an arrogant view.

[RednaZ]

If some little 4 foot 90 pound guy punched you in the face a bunch of times, you are telling me you would not do something about it? I don't understand what everyone expects... its like they don't expect Isreal to do ANYTHING when clearly they WERE fired upon in some way, whether it did lots of damage or not.

Ok let's follow up this hilaric comparison. Hamas, the little 4 foot 90 pound guy, shoots nearly harmless rockets at israel. Israel kills hundreds of innocent people in return.
So a comparitive reaction to getting punched in the face by a little 4 foot 90 pound guy is to kill hundreds of little guys? Sounds pretty psychotic to me.


P.S. In response to your previous reply on my post, are you serious? That shits hilarious.

[Noah]

There is no way you can justify stopping something evil by doing something even more evil yourself. I consider myself to be neutral in this, so I only think about the innocent casualties. Israel is now killing hundreds of innocent people, regardless if it's on purpose or not. You want to tell the families of the dead Palestinians that it's ok that they lost a son because you're also killing someone else?

I say we load up 20-30 bombers with joints and just drop everything on Gaza. Let's see who is in the mood for killing innocents when you are too baked to stand!

[R1pp3r]

Ok let's follow up this hilaric comparison. Hamas, the little 4 foot 90 pound guy, shoots nearly harmless rockets at israel. Israel kills hundreds of innocent people in return.
So a comparitive reaction to getting punched in the face by a little 4 foot 90 pound guy is to kill hundreds of little guys? Sounds pretty psychotic to me.


P.S. In response to your previous reply on my post, are you serious? That shits hilarious.

Interesting point Rednaz and yeah cops was trying to justify Israel in the same matter. Although why would the giant just kill all those small fellows. Maybe he’s not that psychotic. Perhaps the little 4 foot 90 pound guy punched the giant in the back of the head and then ran to hide in his midget village. The poor giant then proceeded and went to the village to find the evil little 4 foot 90 pound guy but then he noticed they were all around 4 foot and 90 pounds. In his just cause to find the perpetrator he then started to kill the inhabitants and stomp on their houses.

[royCE]

Interesting point Rednaz and yeah cops was trying to justify Israel in the same matter. Although why would the giant just kill all those small fellows. Maybe he’s not that psychotic. Perhaps the little 4 foot 90 pound guy punched the giant in the back of the head and then ran to hide in his midget village. The poor giant then proceeded and went to the village to find the evil little 4 foot 90 pound guy but then he noticed they were all around 4 foot and 90 pounds. In his just cause to find the perpetrator he then started to kill the inhabitants and stomp on their houses.

accept that in a few arguments, the 4 foot 90 pound man turns out to be chuck norris...is this what the argument is about?

[Epinephrine]

that's not what I said, nor do I think that. That line of thinking is something I'm opposed to, but realistically it exists everywhere. I was making the point that Israel isn't the only one to blame in this situation.

Well you explicitly said that "I feel bad for the people of Gaza but some of you people forget that they elected Hamas, and they haven't been innocent in this whole fiasco", so I do think quite clearly that you're supporting one side. If not you would have mentioned, say that the Israelis have elected their governments for many years which have perused policies which have gotten many Palestinians mad at them in return.

Epinephrine: direct intervention won't work nor will America intervene directly with Israel, diplomacy and negotiation is how this issue will be solved. Obama's leash on Israel will be short, so as much as this is looking like a god awful situation it will get better, even if it's momentary. The bureaucracy of the UN is only going to bog this issue down and force the countries to sign another half-ass peace treaty. Maybe I'm pessimistic about this issue, but realistically it's not going to be solved anytime soon.

Not sure why you directed this at me, because I never proposed any solutions or talked about direct intervention. Personally I think that this issue has gone on for 100 years, and it's not about to stop anytime soon.

The 'best' way for issues like this to resolve is usually the most horrific way possible, by having an all out bloody war where one side definitely wins over the other. While it's obviously horrific with all of the casualties, by having a very clear military victor (essentially wiping out the other side), then the conflict will stop. To prove this, you never see Aztec terrorists in Mexico anymore do you?

The world's 'fashionable' way for this to be resolved is the 'two state solution'. This is in my opinion a bit of a cop out. Why? Because neither side will in the forseeable future ever accept a partitioning of Jerusalem. As well, how can you have two states when the Palestinian side is actually cut into two, and you need to cross through Israel to get to the other half? In effect, while theoretically good, the two-state solution ends up prolonging the conflict because it's so hard to achieve, that it's much easier to continue with the status quo.

The preferred 'Canadian' way for this to resolve is for the Palestinians to be allowed into the political process of Israel. By creating a ONE-STATE solution, where Palestinians are fully part of the political process. Obviously this will end the unique Jewishness of Israel, especially with demographics, and create a never ending political struggle of power between the two sides, but that would be preferable to fighting, and maybe some day an Arab administration of the state of Israel will recognize the 'distinct society' that the Jews represent or vice versa (depending on how demographics work out in the one-state solution). As a corollary to this, there would be no more squabbles to the 'right of return'. Because they are now one state, if Palestinians wanted to 'return' to their old homes, they would have to pay market rates for those homes. In the end money will talk, and people will accept that much more than force.

[Squeezer]

accept that in a few arguments, the 4 foot 90 pound man turns out to be chuck norris...is this what the argument is about?

accept it godamnit!