Hamas and Israel

[Zerzera]

Wir haben das nicht gewusst.

Funny how a population can turn around and throw their hands in the air in a matter of a few years. But you can't cop out that easily.

If you say that you can't be blamed what your elected leaders do, you are basically saying that democracy is a façade to begin with. Then, attacking a country to install a democracy is wrong. So .. even the justification the people accepted was wrong.
The UN didn't approve to the invasion, that should be an indication that the invasion is wrong. That you as people approved to overrule, and thereby putting a bomb under the UN, shows how wrong you were.
I can accept your argument that you didn't know (want to know), because it will show a weak character and [like resorting to violence] your inferiority.
God loves violence. God loves America, and no one else. Peace.

[FarScape]

From this first place I knew there is no point arguing here. From the Lebanon second war I could see how ignorant people were supporting Hezbollah, and the same people now supporting the Palestinians. Its probably because they never knew wars, and do not understand how is to be threatened by terrorists and other countries.
Well, if ill write it, people wont understand it clearly, so others translated articles that will open your eyes. tho I doubt it will change anyone mind here, but at least it prove me again, if I had any doubt, why we are fighting Gaza:

http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dgpc4hc9_99qwsq9csd

[Zerzera]

tho I doubt it will change anyone mind here, but at least it prove me again, if I had any doubt, why we are fighting Gaza:

Thank God you posted this and didn't only use it to convince yourself, a very good read that opened my eyes. I never knew that the Palestinians hated my guts for enabling their lives in misery, now I finally understand what the word enemy means! Let's eradicate.

[Liquid Blue]

I can accept your argument that you didn't know (want to know), because it will show a weak character and [like resorting to violence] your inferiority.
God loves violence. God loves America, and no one else. Peace.

i don't even know why you idiots even continue about iraq and america anymore

you beat it to death 3 years ago, now you're just digging it up to beat it again

"oh noes one single american poster has a differing opinion on iraq than i do, GOD DAMN ARROGANT AMERICANS, ALWAYS CAUSING WAR AND TROUBLE AND DEATH AND SHIT"

"yep there goes america again, their citizens are trying to avoid responsibilty and eat cheeseburgers all day long"


"shit look at these ignorant americans, ALL ARE RUNNING AWAY FROM RESPONSIBILTY, europe/canada/the moon is and always will be 1 trillion times more enlightened than sirry americans, olololoool"

[Jerome Scuggs]

No one has been motivated to stop the Iraq War or even the actions of the Bush Administration. How strongly do you think Americans feel about this issue when it really comes down to it?

oh people have but when they do try to do something that would actually fix anything, people call them "idealists", "unrealistic", etc. you guys should have been around to lay into Ghandi.

which is why i can blame every single one of you without a shred of a guilty conscience. teehee

[R1pp3r]

i don't even know why you idiots even continue about iraq and america anymore

you beat it to death 3 years ago, now you're just digging it up to beat it again

"oh noes one single american poster has a differing opinion on iraq than i do, GOD DAMN ARROGANT AMERICANS, ALWAYS CAUSING WAR AND TROUBLE AND DEATH AND SHIT"

"yep there goes america again, their citizens are trying to avoid responsibilty and eat cheeseburgers all day long"


"shit look at these ignorant americans, ALL ARE RUNNING AWAY FROM RESPONSIBILTY, europe/canada/the moon is and always will be 1 trillion times more enlightened than sirry americans, olololoool"

I'm confused. I get it that you don't understand what part America has in all of this, but I have no idea who you're quoting except the Zerzera quote at the top.

Also, I don't think you can fool anyone with your I'm-the-victim-crap you so proudly display.

[Liquid Blue]

You're confused because you're assuming I'm crying victim when I'm trying to keep the topic on track

Zerz does not need to get into a bitch fight with Exalt about America and Iraq, he's done it before in the past and it's not going to do anything constructive in this topic

If you want to talk about what America should/can/hasn't done in regards to the situation in the Gaza, great

there's no point in Zerzera going back and forth with Exalt about Iraq and American citizens responsibility /accountability , especially since this topic is about Hamas and Israel

[Zerzera]

It's funny how you can be so ignorant. But you are right, I shouldn't have brought up America. And I shouldn't have mentioned your painful and distant history with unjustified wars. That was way back, when the people didn't have access to objective news sources yet and those stupid Europeans didn't know what they were talking about. Come to think about it, the Americans didn't want to go to war, it were those pacifist anti-American Europeans that made them.

[Kolar]

I think Zerz was justified in bringing up Iraq this time because it shows how Exalt is distorting the current topic, which I and R1pp3r brought up just before him.

[Exalt]

I think Zerz was justified in bringing up Iraq this time because it shows how Exalt is distorting the current topic, which I and R1pp3r brought up just before him.

how did I distort anything? Am I missing something here? You bring up Iraq and then say "ITS ALL AMERICAN CITIZENS FAULT, THE LEADERS OF THE MILITARY DIDN'T DO IT, THE PRESIDENT DIDN'T DO IT! IT'S ALL US CITIZENS!

The truth is, I never voted for Bush. Many other Americans didn't either. The first election in 2000 was won by Al Gore with the popular vote, and the electoral college voted against the population and gave the presidency to Bush. It's common knowledge although most of you Europeans don't understand that.

Also, the 2nd election, we had either John Kerry who was beyond extreme left wing that he had no chance, and Bush again.

The point is, we can only elect officials, we cannot decide what their decisions will be. As a military member, you cannot decide if the war in Iraq is wrong, you just do what your ordered to do. None of you seem to understand this because none of you were ever in the military to know anything about it.

Europeans should have no right to talk about the Jews anyway, considering what they allowed to happen to them during the 1930-1945 era. Remember the holocaust? That's the whole reason Isreal became a new nation anyway. If you fools didn't allow Hitler to do what he did in Germany there would never have been this problem.

[Liquid Blue]

I think Zerz was justified in bringing up Iraq this time because it shows how Exalt is distorting the current topic, which I and R1pp3r brought up just before him.

He wasn't justified, he decided to address the american population in a negative way just because Exalt was poorly addressing the people in Gaza

2 wrongs don't make a right


Things would have been dandy if after your post-

A majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas (a terrorist organization which has killed thousands of civilians) and a majority of Americans voted for and approved of (at some point), the war in Iraq and the current Administration. To say that one is guilty while another isn't (the American public) is a contradiction.

Some personal responsibility has to rest with the people, but to believe absolutely one way or the other only invites the kind of acts the Jihadists and Neoconservatives have brought to the region. To believe that all the blame rests with them results in Gaza in its current state of shit or the WTC attacks. To believe entirely in the other direction and the cycle of violence, corruption and greed will continue.

1 or two people could have just commented on how they thought Exalt's an idiot or he should open his eyes more or whatever. But no, Big bad Zerzy has to go on with this drivel-

Funny how a population can turn around and throw their hands in the air in a matter of a few years. But you can't cop out that easily.

If you say that you can't be blamed what your elected leaders do, you are basically saying that democracy is a façade to begin with. Then, attacking a country to install a democracy is wrong. So .. even the justification the people accepted was wrong.
The UN didn't approve to the invasion, that should be an indication that the invasion is wrong. That you as people approved to overrule, and thereby putting a bomb under the UN, shows how wrong you were.
I can accept your argument that you didn't know (want to know), because it will show a weak character and [like resorting to violence] your inferiority.
God loves violence. God loves America, and no one else. Peace.

Can you get off of your soap box already? One page ago you were asking in the thread why we have to keep talking about America and then you go off on some rant to the population about how ignorant, self-obsessed and weak we are.

Keep your bitching about the American population and the mistakes you think we've made to a minimum and we'll be good.

[paradise!]

Notice how each post references what he or she(zerz) said, no one is forwarding the discussion here.

TO HOPEFULLY CONCLUDE THIS BITCHING:

America went into Iraq hurriedly, and with false intelligence. I hate bush 100%, but I do believe that he was goin along with what most Americans felt, revenge from 9/11. Most had this illusory correlation between 9/11 and any muslim country.

Back to Hamas and Israel

America needs to take a more objective stance on all this. Less supplying one side with tanks and nuclear weapons, and more diplomacy.

[Kolar]

He wasn't justified, he decided to address the american population in a negative way just because Exalt was poorly addressing the people in Gaza

back on topic,
American involvement in the ME crisis particularly in the Gaza Strip can't go without comment, without its support Israel wouldn't have the fire power or basic technology it has to defend against and attack its neighbors.

Responsibility can neither rest entirely with the public or without. But to distort what little they must carry is a very dangerous game to play, which I think both Zerz and Exalt can be blamed for. But I'm not sure if Zerz is offering up anything more vitriol in terms of attacks then what Exalt or people of his ilk would given the chance.

TO HOPEFULLY CONCLUDE THIS BITCHING:

Good luck with that.

[Squeezer]

back on topic,
American involvement in the ME crisis particularly in the Gaza Strip can't go without comment, without its support Israel wouldn't have the fire power or basic technology it has to defend against and attack its neighbors.

Responsibility can neither rest entirely with the public or without. But to distort what little they must carry is a very dangerous game to play, which I think both Zerz and Exalt can be blamed for. But I'm not sure if Zerz is offering up anything more vitriol in terms of attacks then what Exalt or people of his ilk would given the chance.

Nor can the fact the American involvement is now necessary to clean up the mess. We're a week away from having a guy in the office that was voted in partly to end that war, as well as begin a process of diplomacy that is vastly different from the last 8 years.

What kind of public movement (are)were you looking for?

[Kolar]

Direct military intervention by the US or UN-American peace keepers on the ground would only inflame the situation and give Al Qaeda and Iran a second front. If Israel is successful in dismantling Hamas (before Obama comes in) in time then they may move back to the fringe of Palestinians politics allowing Abbas to bring some order to Gaza and get some kind of Government in place when he leaves in 2010, one that is open to a peace process. Either that or Israel is going to level the place. I agree the US has to be involved because they have been from the start, but they have to tread lightly. If Obama holds some form of open diplomacy with Iran it might also help defuse the situation.

I'm not sure what you mean by public movement, I was commenting on how Exalt was distorting the responsibility the American people have for the war in Iraq and the Bush legacy through the democratic process in contrast to the responsibility the Palestinians have for electing Hamas and the current situation in Gaza.