Hamas and Israel

[Liquid Blue]

Since they're a legitimate organization of freedom and equality loving people fighting for a righteous cause...
DEFINITELY not created with the intent of killing Jews, denying the Holocaust and destroying Israel brick by brick...

oh wait, that's in their founding constitution...


I don't know how this conflict has become a "whose right or wrong" debate.

HAMAS 4 LYFE!

I know it's easier for you if categories are only in black or white, but just because people aren't cheering for Israel here doesn't mean they're supporting terrorism, either.


Like I've said before in this topic, two wrongs don't make a right- even if it's in another organization/country's constitution to kill and murder, why does it have to be in Israel's? And who gives a fuck if they want to lie to themselves and deny the holocaust? Why the hell are you trying to run this discussion on emotions rather than logic? That's chick shit, man.

You had to do it, didn't you? Troll. But it's nice to see you need to repeat what others already said before you. It's good that you voice your opinion, no matter if Kolar, Nycle and Ripper already said the same things. Once again, I am not against America, I am strongly against their invasion of Iraq. My best friend is Iraqi and he and his family weren't against the invasion. But I have my own opinion, and I will voice it.

Then make your own topic about it, and stop derailing other topics about it

http://forums.trenchwars.org/showpos...&postcount=101


This isn't the first and it probably won't be the last time that America/Iraq gets brought up and you feel the need to go on about it. Make a topic and vent your feelings there, this topic is for Hamas and Israel. I'm all for pointing out idiots and idiotic statements, especially when they come from American posters- but too often you either let people like Izor or Exalt work you into a debate about America where it isn't needed.

[Displaced]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...hepalestinians

link to israeli's braking the cease fire first...
also, israel has apparently launched 17 missiles into lebanon, i wonder when hezbollah gets more involved.

[FarScape]

Farscape has been painting a pretty ugly picture of how he as an Israeli feels about the war. Therefore I thought I'd post an article by a somewhat dissident voice from the israeli magazine Haaretz. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054158.html

Will hopefully be a refreshing read.

LOL
Do you know Gideon Levy? Arabs here are less extreme than him :grin:
Well I guess it doesn't matter for you to post shits that probably 1% of Israelis (Excluding the Arabs, I'll say it will be 5% with them) can agree with.

Zerzera:

Those two go hand in hand though. You can't expect people to teach their children to be sympathetic and compassionate when they themselves are distrustful, dogmatic and full of hatred towards their neighbors.
It's reasonable that both Israelis and Palestinians have a moral of violence against each other, you sound just the same as them. Don't expect Europeans to agree with that, we prefer to work to peace and stability rather than upholding a sense of supremacy. So if you feel that you need to annihilate the Palestinians in order to survive, do what you want, but don't come and spew propaganda here. And don't expect the Palestinians ever to give up if you don't work to a peaceful solution.

Israel always, since it was founded, called for peace. We have a peace with Egypt (after they got sick of attacking us) and we have peace with Jordan. We also have peace with other countries and unofficial relations with other Arabian countries.
You are trying to picture us like "war lovers", but then again, you are dumb.
The Palestinians could have peace solution in 1998 and they started the Intifada.
But you know, I do expect from my country to defend our citizens against anyone. If a Palestinian shoot rockets, then yes, annihilate all who do so (hamas).
They had 8 years to stop doing so, but they didn't. Nevertheless, the people there elected a group (hamas) who is anti-Jewish, radical Islamic and doesn't acknowledge that Israel exist. If you want to live in peace with Israel, you don't shoot rockets on people, you don't capture soldier and playing psychological warfare on his back, not allowing the Red Cross to visit him. You don't dig tunnel to smuggle tons of weapons and explosive, trying to kidnap more soldiers, trying to get more rockets to shoot farther into Israel.

And if you do so, and you are using the cease fire to harm and keep firing and arming, seeing the Israeli army doesn't response (expect those 2 cases that CNN mentioned that was near to happen), don't whine to the all world why now you are getting owned so badly.

I do not "spew propaganda", you are just ignorant who doesn't know really whats going on here.

Things like this. Why do you even say this? Terrorists have and always will be part of society, and what you claim at least isn't true in the Netherlands. We do have some Islamic radicals, and some of them got arrested for planning terrorist attacks. But that's nothing new, we've had left-wing terrorism in the Eighties. So we have to join in on an ethnic cleansing of your region because of this? You don't strike me with fear, you only sound to me like a pathetic idiot that is filled with hatred and paranoia.

LOLOLOL
Don't you guys think its funny? A guy live in Netherlands, saying there are some terrorists groups that the police is taking action against them.
I live in Israel, that border Gaza strip where a Terrorist government got elected, destroyed all their opposes (they actually killed MORE Fatah people during the last 2 weeks), taking all the humanitarian aid for themselves, taking children as human shields during the fights, and he blame israel for fighting against it.

I am not an idiot who fill you with hatred and paranoia, Zerzera. You are an idiot who don't understand shit. You want us to go in and arrest those rockets launchers? :-D
You want us to open all the borders so they can smuggle weapons through them, so they wont have to dug tunnels?
You want Israel to fight them with flowers?

You were quiet for the 8 years when they were firing rockets on citizens of Israel, Why didn't you talk ah?
If you didn't talk back then, you should shut up now.
Massacre, annihilation, lol. How many civilians NATO killed in Serbia? 500 or 5700?
Your country is part of NATO isn't it? Wasn't it for the RIGHT CAUSE?!
Go smoke your weed, its the best thing you know and can do anyway... (well you can write English better than me, ill give you that one.^-^ )

[Exalt]

It's funny how you have to resort to putting words into people's mouths in order to continue arguing. I hope you do realize you're the only one here to bring up this kind of drivel.

yeah its so funny since that's taken word for word from the HAMAS Constitution

know what your talking about before you try to downplay what I say, retard

[DankNuggets]

why in the world would anyone want to live in such a hostile, unfriendly place. god or no god, israel isn't a place i'd call holy. look at all the earth, and one of the least hospitable places is also one of the most envied. everyday i'm glad i was born in the US of A.

[FarScape]

Zerzera:

There have been terrorist attacks in Spain and the United Kingdom. And in the Netherlands there have been people arrested at least two times for planning attacks inside the Netherlands. I guess there's more countries where this has happened. Not that it matters. Those countries are stable enough to ignore a few nutcases. And attacking other countries as reprisal, to us, isn't the solution.

Thats the problem smarty, we are living in a nutsNEST.
Its not a small group of 10 people that are terrorists, you go and arrest them. We are fighting a nation that believe is this ideology.

Oh well, your solution is probably "Israel shouldn't stay in Israel, you should take your Jewish feet and go back to Europe\Arab nation X\Russia"
If not, then support Israel, because this is what Hamas believe in and they are who we are fighting.

Kolar:

Sorry Farscape but once the oil is gone you and your Muslim friends can go at it and the rest of us will be tuning out.

Israel don't have any oil well or oil resources. Our best resource is our brain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saeky9I5T9c

[Exalt]

Israel don't have any oil well. Our best resource is our brain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saeky9I5T9c

good post lol

[FarScape]

good post lol

Pointless to argue about it, I tell you...
The UN president is now in Israel, asking the question: "How can you run into safety in 15 seconds?"

Funny that he remembered to ask that. The people near Gaza are living in that reality for 8 years. How some idiot who live in his peaceful house across the sea, can deny the right of Israel to do something against that?

If we want to kill so many Palestinians, why our airplanes throw proclamations that call to all civilians to leave their homes into safer areas?
Why we give every day, few hours of humanitarian cease fire to allow food and medicine to be delivered into Gaza (and Hamas militant rob it).
Why we are risking foot soldiers who need to cross from trapped houses full of explosive, sometimes with Palestinians families sitting there trapped with it, or going above tunnels that were dug in residential areas to make building collapse on the soldiers head, if we could just wipe out Gaza with bombs.

Go figure...

[R1pp3r]

LOL
Do you know Gideon Levy? Arabs here are less extreme than him :grin:
Well I guess it doesn't matter for you to post shits that probably 1% of Israelis (Excluding the Arabs, I'll say it will be 5% with them) can agree with.

Yeah well you could argue what he stands for or has written instead of telling me he’s extreme and by making up some bogus facts. I already mentioned he’s a somewhat dissident voice in bloodthirsty Israel. Did you even read the article?

Out of curiosity do you think the UN consists of a bunch of extremists as well? As most know, Israel is now ignoring the latest UN Security Council resolution and instead attacks their facilities in Gaza. Ironically, they might even have been using white phosphorus. This is starting to get absurd.
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/01/15-4

[R1pp3r]

yeah its so funny since that's taken word for word from the HAMAS Constitution

know what your talking about before you try to downplay what I say, retard

No one here supports Hamas so I have no idea why you posted that. You showing us that Hamas is bad don’t automatically make Israel any better. I'm not going to "downplay" you by replying to your posts any more. I think you're doing a great job at making yourself look bad as it is.

[Epinephrine]

Pointless to argue about it, I tell you...
The UN president is now in Israel, asking the question: "How can you run into safety in 15 seconds?"

Funny that he remembered to ask that. The people near Gaza are living in that reality for 8 years. How some idiot who live in his peaceful house across the sea, can deny the right of Israel to do something against that?

If we want to kill so many Palestinians, why our airplanes throw proclamations that call to all civilians to leave their homes into safer areas?
Why we give every day, few hours of humanitarian cease fire to allow food and medicine to be delivered into Gaza (and Hamas militant rob it).
Why we are risking foot soldiers who need to cross from trapped houses full of explosive, sometimes with Palestinians families sitting there trapped with it, or going above tunnels that were dug in residential areas to make building collapse on the soldiers head, if we could just wipe out Gaza with bombs.

Go figure...

I think you're missing the real point of it all.

Israel is supposedly a western liberal democracy, with respect for human rights and all of that. It is by it's very existence SUPPOSED to be morally superior. Furthermore, considering Gaza is technically within the sovereign borders of Israel, this means that Israel has a responsibility to the people of Gaza. Gaza is not a separate country, but is nominally under the jurisdiction of Israel. Furthermore, Israel is actually claiming moral superiority as JUSTIFICATION for the war to the world and to it's own citizens (justification as in 'we're protecting ourselves from terrorists' 'israel exists because we cannot allow another holocaust to happen'), and as such should act accordingly. If it does not act as morally superior as it claims, then it is clearly at fault in the eyes of the world.

Secondly, regardless of what is done, I think most people agree that going in and causing so much havoc is in the long-term a bad idea because it's not going to cause peace any faster between Israel and the Palestinians.


BTW it's nice that Israel is being so nice and kind by letting aid in for a few hours a day and then.... destroying all that aid and an United Nations compound.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/571394

[Kolar]

Israel don't have any oil well or oil resources. Our best resource is our brain.

Sorry I thought you were also under the impression that this was a proxy war between the US and Iran.

[Cops]

Farscape wants to wipe out Gaza all together, wow.

[Zerzera]

Never the less, Terrorist groups and Islamic radical voices do raise in Europe, and it something even YOU can not ignore nor deny.

Don't you guys think its funny? A guy live in Netherlands, saying there are some terrorists groups that the police is taking action against them.
I live in Israel, that border Gaza strip where a Terrorist government got elected, destroyed all their opposes (they actually killed MORE Fatah people during the last 2 weeks), taking all the humanitarian aid for themselves, taking children as human shields during the fights, and he blame israel for fighting against it.

First you start comparing terrorism in Europe with that in Israel. Now I am only stating that Europe has had some terrorist activity, because Exalt claimed that our opinion is based on the fact that we have had no terrorist attacks at all. And you jump on it and say that Europe can't be compared with Israel? What can't I deny now?

We once lived beside a country that was destroyed by a war. We and our neighbors thought we had to punish them as hard as we could. After all they were our enemies. Our punishment caused instability inside the country, because of a destroyed economy, shortages, unemployment and hurt pride.
This allowed populists to gain support and because of the chaos and anarchy allowed any fascist party to beat down opposition and become ruler.
I just see parallels with what happened in Gaza, and I don't think these people are much different from you and me. Do you?

I am not an idiot who fill you with hatred and paranoia, Zerzera.

Of course, because I don't buy your propaganda.

You are an idiot who don't understand shit. You want us to go in and arrest those rockets launchers? :-D
You want us to open all the borders so they can smuggle weapons through them, so they wont have to dug tunnels?
You want Israel to fight them with flowers?

No, I want you to annihilate the Palestinians like they want to annihilate you, because that's a better solution.

You were quiet for the 8 years when they were firing rockets on citizens of Israel, Why didn't you talk ah?
If you didn't talk back then, you should shut up now.

Because you didn't start a thread. I seen a documentary about the border of Israel there two years ago. And I agree it was an unlivable situation there, but what do you want? They will always be your enemies the way you both are on it now. Do you want to clean out the whole Gaza strip? Because the situation now only raises new fundamentalists. Eight years is nothing compared to how long this conflict will drag on.

Massacre, annihilation, lol. How many civilians NATO killed in Serbia? 500 or 5700?
Your country is part of NATO isn't it? Wasn't it for the RIGHT CAUSE?!

6000 is the highest estimate, but compare that to the ethnic cleansing and the Srebenica massacre the years prior to that war. I wouldn't have agreed to that war and I wouldn't agree to a UN campaign in Israel either when you would clean out the Gaza strip, just an observing mission so that war criminals can be brought to justice.

Go smoke your weed, its the best thing you know and can do anyway... (well you can write English better than me, ill give you that one.^-^ )

I don't do drugs, I don't even drink. If you would ever visit these forums for other things than spreading propaganda, you would know that I am against the use of drugs. And I wish you would be at least a bit better in comprehending the English language, because you misinterpret too much of what I say.

[Zerzera]

by the way

This isn't the first and it probably won't be the last time that America/Iraq gets brought up and you feel the need to go on about it. Make a topic and vent your feelings there, this topic is for Hamas and Israel. I'm all for pointing out idiots and idiotic statements, especially when they come from American posters- but too often you either let people like Izor or Exalt work you into a debate about America where it isn't needed.

Point taken. Got them on my ignore list from now on anyway.